Vedic toilet test

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COM: Jayasri (dd) VMS (Crescent City, CA - USA) wrote:

 

> [Text 1958096 from COM]

>

> > It seems from this that Prabhupada wanted us to introduce varnasrama with

> > the help of Manu-smriti.

> > But how is that possible? Isn´t Manu-smriti

> > outdated-outplaced-outcircumstanced?

> > Or should we notice how Prabhupada uses the word "guide"?

> >

> > Can someone help with some clarifying statements on the role of

> > Manu-samhita in our context.

>

> I asked my guru this once after a woman told me that she didn't consider the

> Manu Samhita, because it wasn't written by Prabhupada. He stated that the

> Manu Samhita came up 136 times in Folio if surrounded by quotes, 141 when

> not surrounded by quotes. He said we do follow Manu-Samhita, but we use

> Srila Prabhupada's books as the reference point in following it. Since Srila

> Prabhupada referred to it as important, how could a follower of Srila

> Prabhupada not in this way?

>

> So, if there is something said in the Manu-Samhita that was not given in any

> reference by Srila Prabhupada, then we should not consider it as so

> important, even though he calls it the lawbook for mankind. Even if it is

> such a lawbook, if Srila Prabhupada did not stress a certain point within

> it, then it would be probably be safe to say it may not be so practical for

> us in the here and now.

>

> This seemed reasonable to me, what do you think, prabhu? Say hello to your

> sweet good wife and children for me. Happy Holidays to you.

>

> your servant,

> Jayasri devi dasi

 

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Hare Krsna dasi

 

I agree with the instruction of your spiritual master:

 

<<...So, if there is something said in the Manu-Samhita that was not given in

any

reference by Srila Prabhupada, then we should not consider it as so

important, even though he calls it the lawbook for mankind. Even if it is

such a lawbook, if Srila Prabhupada did not stress a certain point within

it, then it would be probably be safe to say it may not be so practical for

us in the here and now....>>

 

One time my spiritual master told me that Srila Prabhupada once told them he

was

giving them only the barest minimum of standards, he said, "If you knew all the

rules, you would faint."

 

We talk so much about the importance of being Vedic, but it is possible for us

to get so caught up in the rituals and procedures of Manu Samhita and other

Vedic scriptures, that we actually neglect to develop varnasrama according to

Srila Prabhupada's fundamental vision, that is, to develop self-sufficiency:

grow our own grains with the oxen, protect cows to produce our own milk, and

spin and weave to produce our own cloth.

 

Before we worry too much about following parts of the Vedas not directly given

to us by Srila Prabhupada, let's make it our priority to carry out the tasks

that he did give us, especially developing self-sufficient villages.

 

And, even when we think of things that Srila Prabhupada describes in his

writings, we still need to balance those things with his actual practices when

he was here with us. He may describe that his mother observed purdah, and was

never seen in public. And that was a form of chastity. But that does not mean

this is the standard for chastity that he wants us to observe today.

Prabhupada

adapted things so they would be appropriate to our age, and help us in our

preaching mission. Therefore, the standard of chastity that he set by his

practical example was to have women engaged in preaching, book distribution,

leading kirtans, etc. These were opportunities for devotional service that

Srila Prabhupada personally gave to women.

 

But, in no way does that indicate that he dropped the fundamental Vedic concept

of chastity. That was still an important concept for Prabhupada, but he

revised

its application to suit our modern situation. He still wanted his disciples to

be married to each other rather than having women and men live together without

being married. He still wanted men to see the women, not as sex objects, but

as

their mothers. He still wanted unmarried men and women to live in separate

quarters, and so on. So he adapted the Vedic standard of chastity to make it

suitable and effective for our age.

 

Srila Prabhuapda was expert at giving us realistic standards that we could

observe and still maintain an effective preaching program.

 

Try to imagine, for example, how much preaching and book distribution we would

accomplish in the modern situation if we had to observe brahminical standards

for personal hygiene, as presented in the Manu Samhita. I doubt if anyone in

ISKCON could follow them, and still accomplish something productive with his

life. Certainly, Prabhupada did not expect us to follow them. By reading

them,

we can see how realistic and merciful he was to us. We can also guess the

folly

of trying to jump over him and adopting certain "Vedic" standards at our own

whim -- while neglecting to carry out his actual missions for us.

 

*************************************

 

Manu Samhita IV.44-53

 

44. A Brahmana who desires energy must not look at (a woman) who applies

collyrium to her eyes, has annointed or uncovered herself or brings forth (a

child).

 

45. Let him not eat, dressed with one garment only; let him not bathe naked;

let him not void urine on a road, on ashes, or in a cow-pen,

 

46. Nor on ploughed land, in water, on an altar of bricks, on a mountain, on

the ruins of a temple, nor ever on an ant-hill,

 

47. Nor in holes inhabited by living creatures, nor while he walks or stands,

nor on reaching the bank of a river, nor on the top of a mountain.

 

48. Let him never void faeces or urine, facing the wind, or a fire, or looking

towards a Brahmana, the sun, water, or cows.

 

49. He may ease himself, having covered (the ground) with sticks, clods,

leaves, grass, and the like, restraining his speech, (keeping himself) pure,

wrapping up his body, and covering his head.

 

50. Let him void faeces and urine, in the day-time turning to the north, at

night turning towards the south, during the two twilights in the same

(position)

as by day.

 

51. In the shade or in darkness a Brahmana may, both by day and at night, do

it, assuming any position he pleases; likewise when his life is in danger.

 

52. The intellect of (a man) who voids urine agains a fire, the sun, the moon,

in water, against a Brahmana, a cow, or the wind, perishes.

 

*******************************************

 

So there you are. There are the rules. Are we "Vedic"? According to Manu,

whoever among us uses a flush toilet or even stands up to urinate is not on the

brahminical standard. Did Srila Prabhupada ever tell us that? I don't think

so.

 

And, I don't think it is important. I think that by Prabhupada's potency, he

has lifted the necessity of us to follow the thousands of rules like this that

are found in Manu Samhita and other Vedic scriptures. If Prabhupada did not

require us to practice various aspects of the Vedas, we can ignore them for the

greater mission of spreading Krsna consciousness.

 

Because, after all, what is the purpose of the Vedas? It is to learn to

control

our senses so that we can gradually elevate ourselves to the spiritual

platform.

 

But what does Krsna tell Arjuna?

 

2:42-46

 

42-43. Men of small knowledge are very much attached to the flowery words of

the Vedas, which recommend various fruitive activities for elevation to

heavenly

planets, resultant good birth, power, and so forth. Being desirous of sense

gratification and opulent life, they say that there is nothing more than this.

 

44. In the minds of those who are too attached to sense enjoyment and material

opulence, and who are bewildered by such things, the resolute determination of

devotional service to the Supreme Lord does not take place.

 

45. The Vedas mainly deal with the subject of the three modes of material

nature. Rise above the modes, O Arjuna. Be transcendental to all of them. Be

free from all dualities and from all anxieties for gain and safety, and be

established in the Self.

 

46. All purposes that are served by the small pond can at once be served by

the

great resevoirs of water. Similarly, all the purposes of the Vedas can be

served to one who knows the purposes behind them.

 

 

In the purport to the last verse, Srila Prabhupada states, "It is not possible

for the common man in this age to follow all the rules and regulations of the

Vedic rituals and the injunctions of the Vedantas and the Upanasads. It

requires much time, energy, knowledge and resources to execute the puropses of

the Vedas. This is hardly possible in this age. The best purpose of Vedic

culture is served, hoever, by chanting the holy name of the Lord, as

recommended

by Lord Caitanya, the deliverer of all fallen souls."

 

Srila Prabhupada *knows* the purpose behind the Vedas: to advance toward

Krsna. Therefore, he can lead us on a path where we can serve that purpose by

chanting Hare Krsna according to the method that he has given us by his own

example.

 

We waste much precious time, energy and resources when we artificially attempt

to impose some standard of following the Vedas beyond the example demonstrated

by Srila Prabhupada. And while we are busy being bewildered by the flowery

language of the Vedas -- we will be wasting our time and letting slip the

precious opportunity to carry out his real mission of establishing

self-sufficient rural villages -- which will be the ideal preaching platform

for

Y2K and beyond.

 

*****************************

 

A final note of irony: If we would make establishing self-sufficient villages

our priority, some parts of the Vedas we would follow without even knowing it.

For example, the flush toilet is out of place in a self-sufficient village, and

it is dangerous to pass stool in a plowed field because germs can be

transmitted. The ideal method of rural hygiene is to compost human excrement

using the "sticks, clods, leaves, grass" described by Manu -- so that the

nitrogen-rich human product is composted with the carbon-rich plant material,

thus heating to a high temperature and destroying all the germs. So, in fact,

the modern sanitation experts agree with Manu.

 

But the way to get to the point is not by making Manu the priority, but by

making Prabhupada's order to establish cow protection and self-sufficient

villages the order. If we carefully follow Prabhupada, then we'll get the

results of the Vedas without any extra endeavor.

 

Conclusion? --

 

Bg 8.28

 

"A person who accepts the path of devotional service is not bereft of the

results derived from studying the Vedas, performing austere sacrifices, giving

charity or pursuing philosophical and fruitive activities. At the end he

reaches the supreme abode."

 

 

Srila Prabhupada, ki jaya!

 

your servant,

 

Hare Krsna dasi