Milk...Krsna's Miracle Gift to Mankind.

[Guest guest]

"WWW: Mahananda (Dasa) ACBSP (Alachua FL - USA)" wrote:

 

>

>

> In response to the article written on VNN a few days ago about the harmful

> affects of drinking milk, I would like to present our view of milk drinking

> that we have accepted from our spiritual master.

>

> Despite the evils of modern dairies and the cruel methods of obtaining milk

> from the mother cows, or despite the unwanted chemicals that store bought

milk

> might introduce

> into your body and cause ill effects, still, we do not condemn drinking milk

> nor support veganism as part of our philosophy.

 

True. But that is not a basis for rationalising drinking blood milk. As you

quote the following:

 

 

Also he says "But He's (Krsna) speaking of go-raksya for our special material

 

> benefit, that if we protect the cows, we can have the facility of drinking

> milk, which will help us in keeping our health in order and developing very

> nice brain tissues to understand spiritual subject matter."

 

Please note the big "if". ..."if we protect the cows, we can have the facility

of

drinking

milk, ". Not, we minimize cow protection, just buy blood milk, and expect

to

get the same result.

[Guest guest]

You do not like milk? What is blood milk? You do not agree with Srila

Prabhupada's teachings about milk? What exactly are you trying to say? What is

YOUR philosophy? We need to hear from realized souls, as i was quoting without

my own commentary, not from fools and scientists, or from those who have their

own agenda. So please tell us here, since you are saying that this quoting

Srila Prabhupada is rationizing, what is your idea, based on scipture, or do

you not do that? Waiting your reply. Humbly Mahananda dasa

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

On 27 Jul 1999, Mahananda Dasa wrote:

 

> You do not like milk? What is blood milk? You do not agree with Srila

> Prabhupada's teachings about milk? What exactly are you trying to say? What

is

> YOUR philosophy? We need to hear from realized souls, as i was quoting

without

> my own commentary, not from fools and scientists, or from those who have

their

> own agenda. So please tell us here, since you are saying that this quoting

> Srila Prabhupada is rationizing, what is your idea, based on scipture, or do

> you not do that? Waiting your reply. Humbly Mahananda dasa

 

 

Sorry Madhava Gosh prabhu, I was too grouchy in my last post. i think I was

just a little too defensive, what do you think? Just ignore it. I'm sure I

just misunderstood your intentions.The funny part is i signed it

'humbly',Mahananda dasa. So please overlook it and accept my humble(for real)

obeisnaces. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

By the way, have you been at New Vrindavan long. Were you there when my wife

Hladini was pujari there? I left there almost thirty years ago and have not

returned.

So, as i said, I was still asleep when I read your post and I just wanted to

bite your head off.:;^/) Mahananda dasa

[Guest guest]

>

> Sorry Madhava Gosh prabhu, I was too grouchy in my last post. i think I was

> just a little too defensive, what do you think? Just ignore it. I'm sure I

> just misunderstood your intentions.The funny part is i signed it

> 'humbly',Mahananda dasa. So please overlook it and accept my humble(for real)

> obeisnaces. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

No problem. I have long had the service of being the guy who pushes the

buttons

that set off the venting process for devotees so they can blast away at my

thick

skin rather then some poor innocent devotee.

 

>

>

> By the way, have you been at New Vrindavan long. Were you there when my wife

> Hladini was pujari there? I left there almost thirty years ago and have not

> returned.

 

Mostly here since end of 1973. Yes , knew Hladini reasonably well. Just

recently ran into Vahna who after some reminiscing pulled out a picture of her

that he still carries around with him.

 

>

> So, as i said, I was still asleep when I read your post and I just wanted

to

> bite your head off.:;^/) Mahananda dasa

 

It's still on , so no no harm, no foul, as we say on the soccer field. I am

busy these days so not attending to e mail on a regulated basis so read this

one

just after the other any way. Let me address your points as best I can.

 

 

 

"WWW: Mahananda (Dasa) ACBSP (Alachua FL - USA)" wrote:

 

> [Text 2510132 from COM]

>

> On 27 Jul 1999, Mahananda Dasa wrote:

>

> > You do not like milk?

 

Love milk.

 

> What is blood milk?

 

Milk in the market place that is artificially low priced due to the fact the

karmi

farmers don't have the expense of feeding the cow into her old age. When she

finishes milking, she is slaughtered and the farmer gets money for the beef.

That shedding of blood enables the farmer to sell the milk at a low price.

Also,

if you take petroleum as being the blood of Mother Bhumi, commercial milk is

usually produced on factory farms using all kinds of equipment powered by that

oil.

 

> You do not agree with Srila

> > Prabhupada's teachings about milk?

 

I accept them completely.

 

> What exactly are you trying to say?

 

That by simply purchasing milk from the market and by not protecting cows, we

aren't following Srila Prabhupada's instructions completely.

 

> What

> is

> > YOUR philosophy?

 

My philosophy on cow protection is spelled out in detail in the Minimum Cow

Protection Standards that were adopted by the GBC in Maypur last spring. I was

allowed to have some small input in the writing of those standards in a

brainstorming session held during late 1997 and most of 1998 on the Cow

conference.

 

In addition to that, I believe we have to recognize the reality that at this

time

milk from protected cows is not readily available, and that the vast majority

of

devotees are not likely to take up farming in the immediate future. Therefore,

I

believe that it is acceptable for devotees to continue to purchase milk from

the

marketplace, as long as they are contributing to cow protection programs in

the

meantime.

 

Ideally, such contributions would take the form of an endowment, the proceeds

of

which would benefit cow protection programs. As an economic base is gradually

established, and the lifetime maintanence of a calf assured before it is born,

more cows could be bred, and more milk from actual protected cows become

available. I believe this would win the hearts of vegans who are performing

the

austerity of no milk for ethical reasons. The way to a man's heart is through

his

stomach.

 

> We need to hear from realized souls, as i was quoting

> without

> > my own commentary, not from fools and scientists, or from those who have

> their

> > own agenda. So please tell us here, since you are saying that this quoting

> > Srila Prabhupada is rationizing, what is your idea, based on scipture, or

do

> > you not do that? Waiting your reply. Humbly Mahananda dasa

 

I don't think Srila Prabhupada is rationalizing. I think that the devotees who

use these type of quotes to continue drinking market milk and just ignore the

vegan's valid concerns are rationalizing. As I said before (here I am

repeating a

scriptural quote and my comment on it)

 

<<"But He's (Krsna) speaking of go-raksya for our special material

 

> benefit, that if we protect the cows, we can have the facility of drinking

> milk, which will help us in keeping our health in order and developing very

> nice brain tissues to understand spiritual subject matter."

 

Please note the big "if". ..."if we protect the cows, we can have the facility

of

 

drinking

milk, ". Not, we minimize cow protection, just buy blood milk, and expect

to

get the same result.>>

 

 

What I was trying to point out is that there are 2 elements in that quote.

 

1. Protect cows

2. Drink milk.

 

Srila Prabhupada links the 2 with an if, that is to say, the second is

dependent

on the first.

 

In another quote, Srila Prabupada mentions three elements.

 

<<The Supreme Personality of Godhead, in His instructions of Bhagavad-gita,

advises go-raksya, which means cow protection.

 

The cow should be protected,

 

milk should be drawn from the cows,

 

and this milk should be prepared in various ways.

 

One should take ample milk, and thus one can prolong one's

life, develop his brain, execute devotional service, and ultimately attain

the favor of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. As it is essential to

get food grains and water by digging the earth, it is also essential to

give protection to the cows and take nectarean milk from their milk bags.

<p>>>> Ref. VedaBase => SB 8.6.12>>

 

So, it seems to me, ISKCON has taken the tack of , to quote (unrealised soul

for sure) Jack Nicholson "2 out of 3 ain't too bad."

 

Which reminds me of a story.

 

A fellow stopped at a rural gas station and, after filling his tank, he

paid the bill and bought a soft drink. He stood by his car to drink his

cola, and he watched a couple of men working along the roadside.

 

One man would dig a hole two or three feet deep and then move on.

The other man came along behind and filled in the hole. While one

was digging a new hole, the other was 25 feet behind filling in the old.

 

The men worked right past the fellow with the soft drink and went on

down the road. "I can't stand this," said the man, tossing the can into

a trash container and headed down the road toward the men. "Hold it,

hold it," he said to the men. "Can you tell me what's going on here

with this digging?"

 

"Well, we work for the government," one of the men said.

 

"But one of you is digging a hole and the other fills it up. You're not

accomplishing anything. Aren't you wasting the taxpayers' money?"

 

"You don't understand, mister," one of the men said, leaning on his

shovel and wiping his brow. "Normally there's three of us: me, Rodney,

and Mike. I dig the hole, Rodney sticks in the tree, and Mike here puts

the dirt back. Now just because Rodney's sick, that don't mean that

Mike and me can't work."

 

A classic example of "2 out of 3 ain't too bad."

 

If you accept the following quotes

 

 

Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 8: Chapter Twenty-four, Text 5 :PURPORT

 

Without protection of cows, brahminical culture cannot be maintained;

and without brahminical culture, the aim of life cannot be fulfilled.

 

 

Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1: Chapter Nineteen, Text ; :PURPORT

 

Cow protection means feeding the brahminical culture, which leads towards

God consciousness, and thus perfection of human civilization is achieved.

 

Then you might expect that by minimizing cow protection, ISKCON would be

having

difficulty maintaining itself. Which if rittvikism, defections to Gaudiya

Math,

stagnation and lawsuits are considered difficulties, then the quotes would

seem

to be born out.

 

I think in the not so near future, although it slipped through without the

controversy devotees seem to need to get their interest, the Cow Standards IF

ACTUALLY PUT INTO PRACTICE, could establish a stable social economic base that

will enable ISKCON to weather much worse storms. The blueprint for

establishing

VAD is contained in those Standards.

 

Of course, that might just be naive idealism, but I have been a detractor of

the

GBC for a long time before that was seemingly acceptable. Now it seems

routinue

to criticize them, but with the establishment of the Women's Ministry, the

Agriculture Ministry, the Child Protection stuff, and the acceptance of the

Cow

Standards, I personally am re evaluating my cynicism and am at least giving

the

GBC the benefit of the doubt, on the basis of it's not where you are that's

important, but the direction you are headed that counts.

[Guest guest]

> Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 8: Chapter Twenty-four, Text 5 :PURPORT

>

> Without protection of cows, brahminical culture cannot be maintained; and

> without brahminical culture, the aim of life cannot be fulfilled.>

> Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1: Chapter Nineteen, Text ; :PURPORT

>

> Cow protection means feeding the brahminical culture, which leads towards

> God consciousness, and thus perfection of human civilization is achieved.

 

> I think in the not so near future, although it slipped through without

> the controversy devotees seem to need to get their interest, the Cow

> Standards IF ACTUALLY PUT INTO PRACTICE, could establish a stable social

> economic base that will enable ISKCON to weather much worse storms. The

> blueprint for establishing VAD is contained in those Standards.

 

I admire your optimism. But dont forget the old adage, 'Resolution, no

solution', (I think the letters GBC sometimes preface that). I am not sure

if all ISKCON temples are even aware of this papers existence. And in some

cases I have heard that a few leaders have scant respect for ISKCON law.

 

Your text here gave me a realisation about the nature of spiritual life that

sometimes seems to slip by. We make advancement in spiritual life, by

pleasing the guru, and acheiving his mercy. The guru is a transparent via

medium to Krsna. Krsna loves the cows, I dont think he would be too happy to

see one of his devotees, even a devotee not directly responsible for that

service, ignoring them, thinking "it's not my service".

 

Sometimes it appears that we think that obtaining knowledge, learning

slokas, becoming great preachers, is the way to advance. But if we are busy

in the temple or at a VIHE course, cramming away, memorising verses,

organising programs. preaching to thousands, building big temples, etc and

meanwhile the cows, women and children are being abused, we will never make

anyone permanently happy, except maybe our false ego. How do we expect to

get the mercy of the pure devotee, who is actualy qualified to take us home,

if we are not taking whatever responsibility we can to protect the

vulnerable. OK we may not be ksatrias, but we do have voices.

 

I seem to remember an example, something in connection with Bhaktisiddhanta

Sarasvati. The gist being, that we are ALL responsible, each and every one

of us to help rectify wrongs. Not just the leaders, we all have a

responsibility to make sure that dharma is upheld. If we see something wrong

and if we do not do something to rectify it, we will not get the mercy to

advance. If there are problems in society,and we are aware of it, how can we

ignore them, without doing whatever in our capacity we can?

 

The last twenty odd years have seen a regime of: "Surrender to your

authority". "Don't be independant", etc. Effectivly such policies are

disempowering. Srila Prabhupada wanted his devotees to be *Independantly*

intelligent. This kind of brow beating has created a society of weakened

individuals, people who are 'dependant' on their authorities, and therefore

unable or afraid to speak up.

>

> Of course, that might just be naive idealism, but I have been a

> detractor of the GBC for a long time before that was seemingly acceptable.

> Now it seems routinue to criticize them, but with the establishment of

> the Women's Ministry, the Agriculture Ministry, the Child Protection

> stuff, and the acceptance of the Cow Standards, I personally am re

> evaluating my cynicism and am at least giving the GBC the benefit of the

> doubt, on the basis of it's not where you are that's important, but the

> direction you are headed that counts.

 

Its certainly noble to give them the benefit of the doubt. But at the same

time, the devotees do still need to speak up, everywhere there is injustice.

Simply criticising, is useless. But do not remain silent due to fear. Put

down the Bhagavatam, and do whatever you can do, to right the wrong. Once we

are satisfied we have done our bit, surely Lord Krsna will be pleased with

us, and send us any help we may need to advance further. This is a movement

of personalists. Sentient beings who are supposed to have mercy on each

other.

 

One of the most important and sacred attributes a person has is his

independance. It is that indpendance that makes love and devotion possible.

If our society, insists on its members being silent servants, we will never

have the dynamics that come from a society of free independant spirits,

giving their devotion voluntarily. This is glorious. The only way we can

evolve into this is by embracing the tenets of varnasrama.

 

YS