Guest guest Posted November 29, 1999 Report Share Posted November 29, 1999 On 28 Nov 1999, Madhusudani Radha wrote: > Harsi prabhu wrote: > >> > It is very sad that such kind of self justice occur in the Holy Dhama. > > >> Krishna's mercy Prabhu. > > >Krishna,s mercy? I think with this understanding one could rationalize > >everything what happens to someone in this society. What about our > >responsability? > > I agree completely with Harsi prabhu. I was shocked to see that quote too, > but decided that the person must have been sarcastic. Either that or > making a bad joke. But I did miss the " " or the ;-). It certainly IS Krsna's mercy, how could it be otherwise? Of course it will also be Krisna's mercy when those criminally involved are brought to justice. We should NOT wait for Krsna to take care of this Himself. India may well be the world's largest anarchy, but I don't see why our society needs to stoop to this kind of "justice". Since HG Adri has a big agenda behind his words, could a report from a respectable ISKCON officer be forth coming? What DID happen, and what is the response from our society? The recent Vrndavana "incident" is a good case in point. Cut the axe-grinders out of the loop. Child abuse, murder etc. happens in nearly every society, big or small. This doesn't justify, nor explain anything. It's just a reality and not completely avoidable. BUT, a VERY important measure of any society is it's RESPONSE to these events. An appropriate response must be there. THAT's what ISKCON needs to learn. If we can't do it ourselves, then the material energy will take care of it in the form of lawsuits, bad publicity, etc. (As it is already.) I would like to see those involved in this death step forward and accept "Krsna's Mercy" in the form of the police and the courts. If local or regional justice can't be had out of government incompetence, at least within our society these people need to be dealt with. Not in kind, but fairly and judiciously, as the apparent victim should also have been treated. YS Jiva Goswami Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 1999 Report Share Posted November 29, 1999 Jiva Goswami dasa wrote: >It certainly IS Krsna's mercy, how could it be otherwise? Just an odd thing to write after we hear of a devotee dying in a horrible way (whether it be suicide or homicide). I think prayers might be more appropriate. >Since HG Adri has a big agenda behind his words, could a report from a >respectable ISKCON officer be forth coming? Or from an objective outsider? I sincerely hope so. Several of us have written letters to the Mayapur management asking for a reponse. As of yet, no one I know of has heard anything, except that they're in meetings about this incident. >Child abuse, murder etc. happens in nearly every society, big or small. ????? >This doesn't justify, nor explain anything. Exactly, so again, it's an odd thing to write. >It's just a reality and not completely avoidable. It may not be *completely* avoidable, but I'm not sure that we can say that we've even tried particularly hard to avoid it. Have we really done our best? Let's do a poll right here: How many devotees on these conferences have functioning CPTs in their communities? How many don't have those, even though it's been a GBC resolution since 1990 or 1991? >BUT, a VERY important measure of any society is it's RESPONSE to these events. >An appropriate response must be there. THAT's what ISKCON needs to learn. Yes, that's definitely one of many lessons we need to learn. But it seems to be a difficult lesson. >I would like to see those involved in this death step forward and accept >"Krsna's Mercy" in the form of the police and the courts. Absolutely. I agree 150%. >If local or regional >justice can't be had out of government incompetence, at least within our >society these people need to be dealt with. Not in kind, but fairly and >judiciously, as the apparent victim should also have been treated. This is a very important point. We have to deal with alleged offenders as well as convicted offenders in a firm but civilized manner. Thanks for bringing that up. Ys, Madhusudani dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 1999 Report Share Posted November 29, 1999 On 28 Nov 1999, Madhusudani Radha wrote: > Jiva Goswami dasa wrote: > >It certainly IS Krsna's mercy, how could it be otherwise? > > Just an odd thing to write after we hear of a devotee dying in a horrible > way (whether it be suicide or homicide). I think prayers might be more > appropriate. > > > >Child abuse, murder etc. happens in nearly every society, big or small. > > ????? > > >This doesn't justify, nor explain anything. > > Exactly, so again, it's an odd thing to write. > > >It's just a reality and not completely avoidable. Possibly odd, but rather than make a value judgement based on my own narrow perspective, I thought to apply the Krsna's mercy argument to the other pieces of the puzzle. Kirtanananda and his people made good use of the Krsna's mercy/mission from god argument (Blues Bros.?). Rather than argue with a sociopath over religious truths removed from their appropriate context, better to reapply the context and extend the argument to additional, natural conclusions. It can be quite hard to distinguish the heart and mind behind a religious expression (Egypt Air), given cultural, language and spiritual differences. Why try if you don't need to? Odd to whom? Things do and will continue to happen in our society; no crystal ball required for that prediction. Every month or two or three or four, we have a new event to feed the flagellants. I think we've had more than our average this month. We need less frenzy and more results. ISKCON will have no coffin, no nails. Prabhupada is in the hearts of too many devotees. We have a mission to fulfill. I have a few comments about Maya, but they may be "odd". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 1999 Report Share Posted November 29, 1999 Jiva Goswami Dasa wrote: >Things do and will continue to happen in our society; no crystal ball required >for that prediction. Every month or two or three or four, we have a new event >to feed the flagellants. I think we've had more than our average this month. >We need less frenzy and more results. Sounds like a safe prediction indeed. In fact, I think we've had more than our usual quota this year. I pray that its last month is as dull as possible for our society. We could use some boredom. > >ISKCON will have no coffin, no nails. Prabhupada is in the hearts of too many >devotees. Prabhupada will remain in the hearts of devotees. No doubt about that. But isn't there a quote where he says something to the effect that ISKCON may or may not last? I don't think we can count on ISKCON being as immortal as Prabhupada. He may have said that ISKCON was his body, but he also said he was not his body. Ys, Madhusudani dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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