Sastra yonit vat

[Guest guest]

Samba wrote: (for the 3rd or 4th time...)

"With what power and conviction can we even think to introduce Manus

laws?"

 

The answer is: with the power and the conviction of Srila Prabhupada. He is

our Founder-Acharya, he has the vision and he has entrusted the varnasrama

mission to all his followers. The more we learn to follow in his footsteps, the

more we likewise will understand how and when to implement and introduce the

laws of Manu.

Here is a very telling quote from one devotee in India who mentioned to one

of our leaders that he had acquired a small piece of land outside one of the

major cities in India:

 

" It took you a long time to convince us about land project. I will see how

long it takes me to convince the congregation. India is really brain washed

about living on land...(us included). Last time, ********** Maharaja in

********** had a "hearty" laugh when he heard we have a small plot of land

near..... He quipped that who would ever want to live on lands these days. So

much for support within our society also. So its a journey with not very many

companions."

 

I fully support Samba's assessment that those who can appreciate Srila

Prabhupada's vision for varnasrama should begin where Srila Prabhupada started,

at the "grass root" level. All will become manifest in due course of time,

including how to apply the laws of Manu. We just have to forge ahead, even if

not a single soul is behind us in our individual projects. It all begins from

even the smallest of efforts in this direction. Most ambitious projects have

humble beginnings, like that of Srila Prabhupada. I very much appreciate

Samba's tireless efforts in this direction and pray more devotees develop the

same kind of conviction, clear understanding and put it in practice as he is

doing.

 

Yours in service to Srila Prabhupada,

 

Bhakti Raghava Swami

 

 

 

-

Vraj Eco Vill

Shyamasundara (das) ACBSP (Vedic Astrologer) (USA) ; Antardwip (das) JPS

(UK) ; Mahat-tattva (das)

Cc: Bhakti Raghava Swami ; Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP (Baroda - IN) ; Tejiyas

Sunday, October 10, 2004 17:41

Sastra yonit vat

 

 

 

> So... "Kindly speak to me that.So why shall I speak to you?" Here says:

> sisyas te 'ham [bg. 2.7]. "Now I am accepting You as my guru. I become

> Your sisya." Sisya means: "Whatever you'll say, I'll accept." That is

> sisya. The sisya word comes from sas-dhatu. Sas-dhatu. Sastra. Sastra.

> Sasana. Sisya. These are from the same root. Sas-dhatu. Sas-dhatu means

> rule, ruling. So we can rule in various ways. We can be ruled, becoming a

> sisya of a proper guru. That is sas-dhatu. Or we can be ruled by sastra,

> weapon. Just like king has got weapon. If you don't follow the king's

> instruction or government's instruction, then there is police force,

> military force. That is sastra. And there is sastra also. Sastra means

> book, scripture. Just like Bhagavad-gita. Everything is there. So we must

> be ruled, either by sastra, sastra or guru. Or becoming sisya. Therefore

> it is said: sisyas te 'ham [bg. 2.7]. "I become voluntarily... I surrender

> unto You.Now you become sisya. What is the proof that you have become

> My sisya?" Sadhi mam tvam prapannam. "Now I am fully surrender."

> Prapannam.

>

> Bhagavad-gita 2.1, - Ahmedabad, December 6, 1972

 

It seems to me taking a cue from the above verse that the laws of Manu can

only be implemented by one who knows in tattva the essences of those laws

and how they can be applied according to time place and circumstance, as

Krishna Dharma prabhu has pointed out. Sastra is delivered by sadhu/guru.

"We read the bible day and night, you read black and I read white" Without

sadhu/guru to guide us we just squabble in the name of sastra. How then

could we hope to implement Manus laws?

 

The fact is that we are bound by the laws of the land in which we live. We

have been overrun by demoniac sudras taking the role of ksatriyas. Until

power is wrested by a Krsna conscious ksatriya, there is little chance of

Manus laws being implemented.

 

We have seen many quotes wherein it would seem to be impossible for

Varnasrama to be introduced in this age, and there exist many quotes wherein

Srila Prabhupada says it can be done and that we are intelligent enough to

do it.

 

Srila Prabhupada actively began farm projects wherein he wanted varnasrama

principles to be introduced, starting with simple living and high thinking.

By starting at that point, and creating an agricultural economy independant

from the vast agribusiness of today, along with the gradual training of our

children and newcomers in varnasrama principles, maybe eventualy we would

see the emergence of a powerful ksatriya who could eventualy take power

somewhere and begin to implement those laws. Islamic states are cropping up

all over the place and are doing this kind of thing, but unfortunately they

are flawed.

 

Of course the western world abhors such fundamentalists. The laws of Manu

are sometimes quoted as proof of Hindu fundamentalism, and as such, the

introduction of such laws is severely hindered in the western world. This

abhorrence is due to the atheistic mind set that is created in a world where

sense enjoyment is the all in all, and the concept of sin is just a quaint

outdated idea.

 

It seems to me that the only chance for varnasrama to be implemented is by

starting at the beginning, creating an independant economic system based on

the land and cow, and working up from there, a pretty long term program.

That is where our beloved Srila Prabhupada chose to start, so I would say

that it is ISKCON's only chance to actualy become relevant once again in the

eyes of this world.

 

Tejiyas prabhu pointed out to me once that the word FARM is almost a dirty

word in our society. Very few it seems want to take the trouble to get 'down

and dirty' to do the practical hands on work of creating a natural economy,

but without it we remain parasites on our host cultures, who will listen to

us? With what power and conviction can we even think to introduce Manus

laws?

 

Your servant

Samba das

[Guest guest]

> 3. We may have ISKCON owned farms, but most grihastas are looking for -

> must look for - personal security, and that means land ownership. There

> may be other ways of providing security of land tenure but given the

> unstable nature of previous farm administration married devotees will be

> looking for the ultimate financial security which means ownership.

 

 

This is an interesting point. At our project Madhuvan, we are creating a

foundation. Foundations (at least here in Spain) are bound to whatever goals

are stated at the point of their creation. If a foundation is created for

the specific purpose of creating a simple living community and all it

entails, then it is quite a good way of creating security as long as the

participants in the project all agree with the goals.

 

If the community understands that the goal of the whole thing is to create

an atmoshpere in which the participants become Krsna conscious, then a

certain level of faith is required. In the original varnasrama system the

land was all administered by ksatriyas, and the inhabitants did not own the

land, but as long as they were law abiding and produced from the land, the

land was as good as theirs for the ongoing future.

 

Of course there can be communities with varying levels of committment. There

could well be communities of land owning devotees cooperating at levels of

their choice.For many older devotees that might be the only reasonable

option. For younger newer people there might be the possibility that they

would go for the opportunity to set themselves up on community land, and if

the community was set up in such a way that the goals were conducive to

stable ongoing community, it could be a good future.

>

> 4. We need to raise the level of vocal support and endorsement for the

> family unit. If marriage and the family remain a poor substitute for

> renunciation within our movement then we will continue to struggle with

> the stability of this ashram.

 

Absolutely!

 

YS Samba das

[Guest guest]

> > I just tried to find it on the vedabase, but could not find any matches.

> > I dont know why? Maybe this particular passage never made it into a

> > purport.

 

> This is SB 10.13 Purport. Not exactly the same words or order, but it's

> there.

 

Prabhuji, which canto, chapter and verse?