Guest guest Posted December 6, 1999 Report Share Posted December 6, 1999 At 3:13 AM +0000 12/6/99, COM: Nayana-ranjana (das) (BBT Bombay - IN) wrote: >[Text 2833924 from COM] >Most beautiful & relevant quote from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta. Thanks for >posting it. > >> Yes, I agree. That's a nice arrangement. But as far as women managing on >> their own, and not as their husbands' assistants, that is meant for widows >> who are living a life of renunciation. It would be inappropriate for a >> woman on her won to be managing temples other than one which is >> exclusively for women or one where her husband is managing. > >Ofcourse there can be some rare exceptions to this rule like in our >parampara we see Jahnava Devi, Hemalata Thakurani, Gangamata Goswami taking >on the role of acaryas and gurus who had many male disciples. Yes, I agree Prabhu. But BHaktivinoda Thakura has nicely explained this situation: Bhaktivinda Thakura says in his Bhaktyaloka p.85: "General rules are not changed because something happens to a particular person in a special situation. Sri Dhruva Maharaja went to Dhruva loka in his material body; seeing that, should one waste time hoping for the same? The general rule is a living entity gives up his material body and goes to Vaikuntha in his spiritual body. General rules should be accepted by people in general." And what is the general rule? "Suniti, however, being a woman, and specifically his mother, could not become Dhruva Maharaja's diska-guru." (SB 4.12.32) Like Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Srila Prabhupada, the perfect acarya, who lives and breathes according to sastra, reconciles what our imperfect senses consider contradictions by saying: "t is not that woman cannot be acarya. Generally, they do not become. In very special case. (From transcript of original tape of SP dictating BGAII intro. 660219BG.NY) Just like in very special cases someone can go back to Godhead in his material body. But *generally*, you'd better not count on it! The following may also be of interest. It is from Jyotirmayi's paper: SP: Woman is to help her husband. JM: So the duty of the brahmana is to preach. It is to learn the philosophy. SP: Yes, to learn and to preach. JM: And to teach the philosophy. So in our movement, the women have always preached philosophy, given classes, given lectures. SP: Oh yes, oh yes. With the husband. She is always helping hand to hand the husband.... Assistant. JM: Does that mean that the girls should not give lectures and not give classes? SP: Why not? If she is a brahmana's wife, she can give lecture. JM: Jadurani, for example, now she is no longer with her husband anymore., but she is giving classes, she is giving lectures. So is that good? SP: Yes, yes. Why not? This varnashrama dharma, woman is according to the husband. That's all. Jadurani is suppose to be a brahmana's wife, her husband has taken sanyasa, so she can preach. JM: So women can preach. They can give classes. They can give lectures. SP: Oh yes. Who did Prabhupada say could give class? Wives of brahmanas. But the WM says that ANY woman should be allowed to give class anywhere at any time, and to anyone. The WM say that ANY woman can should be allowed to become gbc or diksa guru. Such is simply NOT supported by Srila Prabhupada's words or example. Why did our GBC allow this to happen?! Dancing dogs?? >I have seen that sometimes the wife of the >president takes a dominating role in making management decisions and >directly interacts with the temple brahmacaries. The sincere brahmacaries >leave because of this and those brahmacaries who want to associate with >women in the garb of wearing saffron have a great time. A TP who is a dancing dog in the hands of his wife is disqualified from being TP! Such weakness is a disgrace and a social liability. >I am open for comments. You got'em. Ys. JMd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 1999 Report Share Posted December 6, 1999 > >Great, so whom should the ladies mary... Great question! Losers who can't "make it"? Non-devotees? Each other? This seems like a clear example of a quote that was never supposed to be in the lawbooks for the next 10K years. Does anyone know anything about the circumstance under which Prabhupada gave that direction to Giriraja Swami? Otherwise we should ask Maharaja. Ys, Madhusudani dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 1999 Report Share Posted December 6, 1999 "COM: Madhusudani Radha (dd) JPS (Mill Valley - USA)" wrote: > [Text 2835692 from COM] > > >[Text 2835626 from COM] > > > > > > > > Srila Prabhupada told HH Giriraja Swami that your duty as a manager > > > > > > in Bombay is to see that all the brahmacaries remain brahmacaries > > > > > > and all ladies get married. > > > >In my opinion the quote is being misunderstood. When Srila Prabhupada says > >brahmacaris should remain brahmacaris it must be taken in accordance with > >Prabhupada's mission to promote the divine varnasrama-dharma system created > >by the Lord Himself. Brahmacaris must remain celebate; no sex in mind or > >body. No profit, distinction or adoration. No overeating. No prajalpa. No > >this, no that. So many don'ts. When they ARE brahmacaris, from say age 5-16, > >these varnasrama principles must be followed. > > Thank you for that clarification, Janesvara Prabhu. It makes perfect > sense. It's hard to fathom how Prabhupada could have expected all men > to remain lifelong celibates and all women to marry congregational > devotees. For 99% of male devotees, brahmacari is but *one* stage in > life. Becoming a grhasta is not a fall down, it's simply the *next* > stage. > > Ys, > Madhusudani dasi Yes, for many devotees, Srila Prabhupada viewed brahmacari training as an important part of training for householder life: If, however, the husband is progressive in spiritual advancement, the wife undoubtedly shares in his activities, and thus both the wife and the husband profit in spiritual perfection. It is essential, therefore, that girls as well as boys be trained to discharge spiritual duties so that at the time of cooperation both will be benefited. The training of the boy is brahmacarya, and the training of the girl is chastity. A faithful wife and spiritually trained brahmacari are a good combination for advancement of the human mission. ============ REF. SB 3.14.17 purport your servant, Hare Krsna dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 1999 Report Share Posted December 6, 1999 > > > Srila Prabhupada told HH Giriraja Swami that your duty as a manager in > > > Bombay is to see that all the brahmacaries remain brahmacaries and all > > > ladies get married. > > > > Great, so whom should the ladies mary... > > The male congregation devotees. The temple manager should plan the > congregational preaching in such a nice manner that the unmarried ladies > who become devotees from the congregation or even from other congregations > can find qualified devotee husbands from the congregation itself so that > there is no pressure on the brahmacaries. The pressure so-called brahmacaris feel is not from the ledies, but their own pressure. Otherwise, they wouldn't go to the prostitutes, have homosexual relationships or masturbate.( Please forgive me for this word, but this is what is going on. I am really sorry to have to write this.) This is going-on in ISKCON brahmacari ashramas on the daily basis (specificaly in India). Mayapur male beings (the souls in the orrange clothes) are the most disturbed men I have ever seen in my life. I don't say that all the brahmacaris are like that, but many are. All glories to those who are distributing SP books and are able to keep their vows, but we also have to accept the truth. Yes, I agree that brahmacaris should stay brahmacaris, but you have to know also that only 1%, or maybe even less, of those who are wearing orrange are really brahmacaris. < If there are no unmarried devotee men in the congregation then the ladies who obviously want devotee > husbands see the temple brahmacaries as their only hope. If the marriages > are fixed within the congregation itself then the brahmacaries are free to > concentrate on selling Prabhupada's books. > Selling books for how long? And then when they are not able to sell books anymore, what happens then? When they want to get married and all the women are married to the congregational members, and the temple managment tells them that they can't maintain them any longer, specificaly if they want to get married, what happens then? What happens when after 10 or 15 years of book distribution they can't do it anymore, they have no any income, all the money they collected went for maintaining the buildings (in which they can't live anymore, because now they have to pay if they want to use them) and some of the money went for the sannyasis who made their own houses and many of them meanwhile got married. The temple managers also got married, (they are not fools, they understood what is going on), despite of preaching to poor brahmacaris that perfection of life is pure renounciation and book distribution. And when TP's get married they don't get married to a congregational member, they choose the best one they can get. PRABHU YOU ARE GREEN! Lets see what you are going to tell us in 10 years. Ys. Sraddha dd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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