ISKCON Social Model

[Guest guest]

Dear Shyamasundara prabhu,

 

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

Thank you for your responses to my points, which I found most interesting.

I do have some more thoughts, however, which I would like to share. Forgive

me if they seem foolish or uninformed. I am by no means an expert on dharma

or anything else for that matter, but I have some doubts with regard to what

you have said.

 

You wrote:

 

> Manu Smriti is not exactly like the Gita or Vedanta sutras, it is codes of

> law. There are about 7-8 commentaries on them. Fairly straight forward.

> The version I sent is the one used at the guru kula in Mayapura.

 

I also have a couple of versions of Manu - the one by Muller (God rest his

soul :-) and another translation by Arthur Coke Burnell. Having read them a

couple of times I am not so sure that applying their codes is that

straightforward. For a start, for the text to have any useful application

at all we need to be able to properly ascertain the castes of individuals.

That does not seem so straightforward these days, certainly not before a

person has undergone some spiritual purification at least. What do you

think?

 

Furthermore, there are lengthy sections of rules and regulations for the

different castes and orders of life that, for me at least, bring to mind

Srila Prabhupada's famous statement that "if I introduced all the rules of

cleanliness you would never come out of the bathroom". Do you feel that all

the stipulations of Manu will have full application in our current age?

 

Then there are the more controversial sections dealing with atonements, such

as the following for an adulteress and her violator, and for a brahmin who

has drunk liquor:

 

"If a wife, proud of the greatness of her relatives or (her own) excellence,

violates the duty which she owes to her lord, the king shall cause her to be

devoured by dogs in a place frequented by many. [v.8.371.]

Let him cause the male offender to be burnt on a red-hot iron bed; they

shall put logs under it, (until) the sinner is burned (to death).

[v.8.372.]"

 

"A twice-born man who has (intentionally) drunk, through delusion of mind,

(the spirituous liquor called) Sura shall drink that liquor boiling-hot;

when his body has been completely scalded by that, he is freed from his

guilt; [v.11.91.]

Or he may drink cow's urine, water, milk, clarified butter or (liquid)

cowdung boiling-hot, until he dies; [v.11.92.]"

 

Can you see these being applied in this way today?

 

You also wrote:

 

> Who is saying that we try to make the general populace follow Manu Smriti?

> Even Manu recognizes that there are people outside of VAD. However, in the

> conversation that SP had with Hari Sauri and Satsvarupa on Feb 14, 1977 in

> Mayapura (it is on the VedaBase) he distinctly said that VAD was to be

> applied to ISKCON temples.

 

I was not thinking of the general populace, but of people coming to KC. I

have read that conversation many times and I do understand that VAD is to be

applied in ISKCON. But VAD is meant for high class persons. In the SB

7.11.8-12 Narada gives a list of thirty exalted qualities that all humans

should try to acquire. Then in the purport to 7.11.13 SP writes,

 

"After giving a general list of thirty qualifications for one's behavior,

Narada Muni now describes the principles of the four varnas and four

asramas. A human being must be trained in the above-mentioned thirty

qualities; otherwise, he is not even a human being. Then, among such

qualified persons, the varnasrama process should be introduced."

 

Where though shall we find such qualified persons these days? Not easy. But

if people engage in sankirtana for some time, then these qualities will

begin to appear and VAD becomes a possibility. That is my point, for

whatever it may be worth.

 

But I still question how many of the traditional VAD duties as specified by

Manu, Parasara, etc, will have application today.

 

Finally you wrote:

 

> But let me sign off by asking you a simple question: Why do we vow, at

> the time of diksa, to refrain from eating onions and garlic?

 

Well, you've got me there. At neither of my dikshas :-) did I make such a

vow, nor have I seen anyone else specify these items at initiation. I do

refrain from onions and garlic however as I do not want to be afflicted by

tamo-guna anymore than is already the case (which is far too much). But I

don't think it is a particularly heinous sin to eat them - there are far

bigger problems we need to tackle first (OK, go ahead, throw the sastric

rules about onions at me :-)

 

Yhs

KDd