Samba's Headless Varnasrama

[Guest guest]

> You can't see the relation to Varnasrama. In this Gita thread certain

> people have defied acceptance of the Gita because:

> (1) they don't trust that devotees can have indications from Lord Krsna

> that He accepts their service.

> (2) they don't trust the GBCs decision

> (3) they don't trust the gurus

> (4) they don't trust Jayadvaita's decision

> etc.

>

> Is it possible to implement Varnasrama without having any trust in the

> above mentioned upper class???

 

> Explain yourself without just stating:

 

YES SIR!

 

Well for a start the 'upper' class (I presume you mean Brahmanas, as

oppposed to Ksatrias) have to be completely independant for them to actualy

be able to freely speak. You have grouped GBC's Gurus etc all together, but

in a varnsrama society they each have their respective roles and positions.

 

We understand that the fundamental basis that ensures a Brahmanas authority

is that they cannot be 'bought'. Unfortunately we find in ISKCON that many

of the 'Brahminical' members are completely dependant on certain authorities

in ISKCON, and therefore they are often afraid to actualy speak their minds.

The recent revelation that the GBC has apologised to Pradyumna Prabhu for

kicking him out of ISKCON becasue he wrote a letter which astutely pointed

out the consequences of their actions 20 years ago, is a case in point. He

was brave enough to speak up and the result was that he was 'removed' from

ISKCON. I wonder what message this sent to other 'Brahmanas' in the society.

It was a very totalitarian thing to do. Similar things have happend over the

last twenty years, it is only now that the leaders are admitting it. How

long will it take other leaders (I presume there may be some who are in the

category) to rid themselves of the habits or instruments of totalitarian

control.

 

So what we need is a SOCIETY of independantly intelligent devotees. This

means that they are in control of the 'means' of production, I.E. that they

have land, and are supported by an independant community, so that all their

needs are met. It is abundantly clear from Srila Prabhupadas instructions,

that he wanted varnasrama training to be implemented, and it has not been

done so far.

 

Had we actualy listened to that brave Brahmana 20 odd years ago, we could

have a different ISKCON now, one that adhered more to ALL of Prabhupadas

instructions.

 

It is all very well to demand full unconditional surrender to the GBC and

other authorities, but who can do that after years of documented abuse from

certain individuals who held that post? It is incumbent upon all

intelligent, senior, persons to examine each and every directive that comes

from a leadership, which has continued to misdirect devotees and indeed in

some instances thrown them out for dubious reasons. We cannot follow

blindly, unless we are 100% sure that the leader is infallible and

transcendentaly situated, as clearly seen by the sanga of devotees, as in

the case of Prabhupada, or another Mahabhagavata.

 

What we have now in ISKCON is an incomplete social system. Many devotees are

not independant, and therefore they are in effect subject to controll. Just

a few weeks ago, Harikesa Prabhu was giving us *absolute* orders as a Guru,

and the Chairman of the GBC. I was initiated by Jayatirtha, and devotees in

the UK *KNEW* a full year in advance about his fallen condition, yet it was

all covered up, and he was allowed to continue, until one day, when his

false ego overcame him, he marched proudly away from ISKCON Mayapur, and

cemented his final grisly demise.

 

You cannot expect (especialy) senior devotees to blindly accept everything

that the GBC presents. Actualy the GBC is not the ultimate 'spiritual'

authority. It is the ultimate *managing* authority in ISKCON as Prabhupada

wanted. Spritual authority comes from ones personal intimate relationship

with ones guru, and from the Sadhus and Sastra.

 

It would be a different thing if we actualy had a fully functioning

varnasrama society. In such a society, the proper ettiquette would be

followed. The Brahmanas protected, and the ksatrias, armed with independant

advice fromt the Brahmanas, would be above suspicion. Ettiquete means

allowing the seniors to rule without *undue* questioning by juniors, unless

of course Dharma is abused. Nowadays any new bhakta with a modem connection

can cause havoc in the minds of younger devotees, if he is not

self-controlled in his presentation.

 

It is incumbent upon each individual to examine what symptoms a guru

exhibits. Personaly I feel that a western person with no idea about

spiritual life in general needs many many years of study to understand what

actualy constitutes real spirituality. Austere looks, dreamy expressions of

ecstacy on the vyasasana, esoteric speech patterns and superficial humility,

along with the retoric of the neophyte follower, should not be mistaken for

actual spritual standing.

 

We have many examples of false spirituality captured on video from many

fallen gurus, and this should be used to show new devotees what to look out

for.

 

> Anyway, you can go back to your illusory implementation of a headless

> varnasrama society.

 

It seems that you are fully aware of all my thoughts on the matter of

Varnasrama, and have concluded them to be illusory. I am amazed by your

confidence in your perception, that you are prepared to *directly* criticise

me.

 

> > because we appear to have one very immature contributor. Why keep

> responding...

 

I referred to an immature contributor, as you have re-posted here, I did not

specify who this was.

 

I think it would be better for you to desist from commenting any further,

unless you lose yourself and offend someone who counts, as it is you are

safe with me, as I am very much subject to illusion in many ways.

 

Your servant

Samba das