Guest guest Posted May 4, 2004 Report Share Posted May 4, 2004 THE LORD'S MERCY: TO DELIVER THE DEVOTEES AND VANQUISH THE DEMONS A talk by Giriraj Swami on Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.17.16 February 12, 2003, Los Angeles, CA. TEXT tav adi-daityau sahasa vyajyamanatma-paurusau vavrdhate 'sma-sarena kayenadri-pati iva TRANSLATION These two demons who appeared in ancient times soon began to exhibit uncommon bodily features; they had steellike frames which began to grow just like two great mountains. PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada There are two classes of men in the world; one is called the demon, and the other is called the demigod. The demigods concern themselves with the spiritual upliftment of human society, whereas the demons are concerned with physical and material upliftment. The two demons born of Diti began to make their bodies as strong as iron frames, and they were so tall that they seemed to touch outer space. They were decorated with valuable ornaments, and they thought that this was success in life. Originally it was planned that Jaya and Vijaya, the two doorkeepers of Vaikuntha, were to take birth in this material world, where, by the curse of the sages, they were to play the part of always being angry with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. As demoniac persons, they became so angry that they were not concerned with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but simply with physical comforts and physical upliftment. LECTURE by Giriraj Swami Srila Prabhupada begins his discussion by paraphrasing the verse from Vedic literatures that explains that there are two classes of human beings: the demigods, who are devotees of Visnu, and the demons, who are just the opposite: dvau bhuta-sargau loke 'smin daiva asura eva ca visnu-bhaktah smrto daiva asuras tad-viparyayah "There are two kinds of created beings in this world, godly and demoniac. Those dedicated to the devotional service of Lord Visnu are godly, and those opposed to such service are demoniac." (Agni Purana) In the present political atmosphere such a statement sounds "hot." Nowadays, people want to believe that everyone is the same and that we should make no discrimination between one category and another; we should just believe that everyone is the same. But here the Vedic literatures, as perfectly represented by Srila Prabhupada, say the opposite: There are two categories: the demigods and the demons. And throughout the Vedic literature we find all sorts of classifications. Of course, we also read in Bhagavad-gita, panditah sama-darsinah: A learned person sees everyone as the same. And there are many verses in the Bhagavad-gita that describe the vision of the self-realized soul who sees all living entities equally, samah sarvesu bhutesu. So how do we reconcile the apparently contradictory statements, some of which describe different categories and others that indicate that all living beings are the same? The answer is that spiritually, all living entities are the same, but materially they are covered by different types of bodies and different types of mentalities, and so the Vedic literatures classify them in different categories--according to age, sex, social position, spiritual position, etc. And the classification is actually beneficial, because it defines people's social and spiritual duties so that they know how to act and we know how to deal with them. It's good for people to know what category they fall in so they know what they are meant to do and what they are not meant to do. Thus, the different classifications and their descriptions are actually beneficial for the conditioned souls. The liberated souls, on the other hand, see everyone equally, because they see the soul within the body. Yet even liberated souls or uttama-vaisnavas, when they come to preach, also accept the preacher's vision and make distinctions. The Srimad-Bhagavatam explains that the maha-bhagavata sees everyone related to Krsna, everyone engaged in the service of Krsna. Therefore, the maha-bhagavata finds no need to preach; he or she sees that everyone is already Krsna conscious. It is the intermediate devotee or madhyama-bhakta who perceives different categories, and he or she deals with each category differently. isvare tad-adhinesu balisesu dvisatsu ca prema-maitri-krpopeksa yah karoti sa madhyamah "He gives his love to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He makes friends with devotees, he is merciful to the innocent, and he avoids the envious." (SB 11.2.46.) Although here in the Third Canto we find two categories, demigod and demon, in the Eleventh Canto of the Srimad-Bhagavatam we find that the preacher sees three categories of living entities. The godly or demigod and the envious or demon are common to both classifications, while the innocent is in a special category in the preacher's vision, because the innocent is still on the material platform, like the demon, but--unlike the demon--she is not envious of the Lord. Therefore, the innocent is open to the mercy that the devotees have to give, which is the knowledge of the Bhagavad-gita and the holy name of Krsna. But again, in the present atmosphere, people don't like to hear such words, or discrimination. Even when Srila Prabhupada was here, one of his disciples objected to the use of the word "demon." The disciple objected, "If we call them demons, they'll never come to Krsna consciousness." "But they are demons," Srila Prabhupada replied. "But we can't call them demons," the disciple insisted. "Yes, they are demons! Unless you understand this point, you will not make any advancement in Krsna consciousness." So, Srila Prabhupada's words are very strong, and one may wonder how or why Srila Prabhupada would make such a statement. But if we consider from the analytical point of view, we can understand that, yes, the neophyte or kanistha-bhakta doesn't discriminate. He sort of thinks everyone is OK. He wants to be a devotee, but he basically thinks everybody is OK. It is in fact the more advanced devotee who is actually able to discriminate and thus preach to suitable people while avoiding others. Anyway, after Srila Prabhupada said, "You cannot make any spiritual advancement unless you see that they're demons," the disciple asked, "Well, can demons become devotees?" And Srila Prabhupada replied, "Oh, yes. If they chant Hare Krsna and render service, even demons can become devotees." So that was actually Srila Prabhupada's mood and conviction: his mission was to induce people to chant Hare Krsna and become devotees. When Srila Prabhupada established one of his main projects in India in Juhu, Bombay, he called it "Hare Krishna Land." At the time, I was struck by the name. Srila Prabhupada had never named a project in this way before. He had named Deities, but he had never actually named a project or property like this. At the time, the only other "land" I knew of was "Disneyland." So I thought that by giving the name "Hare Krishna Land," Srila Prabhupada was suggesting that we should have a big center of attraction like Disneyland, but instead of the center being Mickey Mouse, at "Hare Krishna Land," Krsna and Krsna consciousness, or chanting Hare Krsna, would be the center. And as the events evolved, what Srila Prabhupada writes here in the purport became clearly manifest. There were demons who were envious of Srila Prabhupada and the devotees, especially because Hare Krishna Land, from the material point of view, was prime property at Juhu Beach. And there were devotees who were sympathetic to Srila Prabhupada. As time passed and as the battle between the demons and the devotees escalated, more and more people were drawn into the war. Srila Prabhupada remarked that one of the purposes or functions of the Krsna consciousness movement is to polarize the devotees and the demons. Otherwise, when you just walk down the street, you can't really tell the difference. Everyone pretty much looks the same. But as soon as you start preaching Krsna consciousness, people start to separate into two groups: those who are sympathetic and those who are antagonistic. And the same phenomenon took place in Bombay--on a large scale. (As Srila Prabhupada said, "Big preaching means big enemies.") We read in the scriptures how the Lord comes to kill the demons. Of course, in Kali-yuga the situation is different, but in previous ages the Lord would come and kill the demons. Srila Prabhupada also had to contend with so many enemies in Juhu. And just as we have heard that the Lord's glories are magnified by His triumph over powerful demons, we all felt that Srila Prabhupada's glories too were meant to be magnified by his triumph over very powerful demons. The leader of the demonic group was Mr. Nair, and he had many accomplices. One was Mr. Mhatre, the local Municipal Councilor, but as the war escalated, more and more demons joined Mr. Nair and his group, and more and more devotees joined Srila Prabhupada and his group. Now the fact is that many of the demons actually were killed in the course of the battles, and that is also to the glory of Srila Prabhupada. Of course, in terms of mundane sentiment, such a statement might sound odd. But the fifth chapter of the Adi-lila of Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, in the discussion of the glories of Nityananda Rama, clarifies this fact. There, one sees the devastating but fitting effect of vaisnava-aparadha--by the mercy of Nityananda Prabhu and the power of His servants. And in the discussion of the glories of Haridasa Thakura, in the third chapter of the Antya-lila of Caitanya-caritamrta, although one testimony to Haridasa Thakura's glory was how even a prostitute was transformed into a great devotee by his association, the other testimony to Haridasa's greatness was the disastrous effects that fell upon the offender who sent her. Sri Caitanya-caritamrta states, "By inducing a prostitute to disturb Haridasa Thakura, Ramacandra Khan caused a seed of offense at his lotus feet to germinate. This seed later became a tree, and when it fructified, Ramacandra Khan ate its fruits." The author of Caitanya-caritamrta takes advantage of these incidents to recount "a wonderful narration" about the effects of the offense at the lotus feet of an exalted devotee. So it is actually part of the glorification of the devotee and the Lord to describe how the demons and offenders are punished. Of all of Krsna's qualities, His greatest is His affection for His devotees, and for Him to protect His devotees, He must punish the demons. The punishment serves as a warning to others, lest they too commit offenses, and it stops the current activities of the offending demons. So it is not that Krsna's main concern is to punish the demons; actually, His main concern is to protect the devotees, but in order to protect them, He has to punish the demons. Therefore, in a way, how the demons who offend a devotee are punished is testimony to the glory of the devotee and the glory of the Lord. So, Mr. Nair (to narrate the whole history would take days, but in brief)--Mr. Nair offered his land at Juhu to Srila Prabhupada, but he took a deposit from Srila Prabhupada, and then he didn't want to give Srila Prabhupada the land or return the deposit. Srila Prabhupada kept saying, "We want the land, and we'll pay you the money, but if you don't want to give us the land, then at least return the money." But Mr. Nair was very cunning. In the past he had played the same trick: he had taken money from people for the land, but then he had kept both the money and the land. So he was quite a formidable person. He had been the sheriff of Bombay, and he owned a major daily newspaper in Bombay. So he was a big demon. One day I was walking around Metro, the part of downtown Bombay around the Metro Cinema. In Bombay, as elsewhere in India, on the streets and sidewalks vendors sit with newspapers and magazines to sell. So, I was walking with my briefcase, probably on my way to my next appointment, and I saw on the front page of the newspaper, Mr. Nair's newspaper, "The Free Press Journal," a big picture of Mr. Nair and a huge banner headline, "A.B. NAIR IS DEAD." When I saw the headline, within my heart I felt jubilant. I actually felt like dancing, right there on the street. But then I thought, "I'm a devotee. We're supposed to develop saintly qualities. As a devotee, am I supposed to feel like this?" At the time, Bali Mardan was visiting Bombay, and he was more used to dealing with Srila Prabhupada directly than I was. Anyway, he phoned Srila Prabhupada in Australia, and Srutakirti Prabhu, Srila Prabhupada's servant then, took the phone call and relayed the news to Srila Prabhupada. (It was only much later that we heard how Srila Prabhupada reacted to the news.) Srila Prabhupada's servant later told us that Srila Prabhupada folded his hands in a mood of prayer and said, "Thank you." Prabhupada then remarked, "Mr. Nair caused too much trouble to the devotees." And Srila Prabhupada indicated that he had prayed to Lord Nrsimhadeva, and that now Lord Nrsimhadeva had killed Mr. Nair. (Even medically, people couldn't understand how Nair suddenly had a heart attack and died.) At that time, we didn't know what Srila Prabhupada's response to Mr. Nair's death was. All we knew was that Bali Mardan had phoned and given the news to the servant. So I was still in doubt about how we should respond. I knew how I was reacting, but I wasn't sure I was reacting as I should. Then a friend and devotee, Dr. K. H. F. Singhal, wrote a letter to Srila Prabhupada, and only when Srila Prabhupada replied did we get our answer. Srila Prabhupada wrote to him, "From one telephone message it is understood that Mr. Nair is dead. So it is good news that Nrsimhadeva has killed a demon like him. Prahlada Maharaja said that even a saintly person becomes pleased when a scorpion or a snake is killed. So if it is a fact that Nair is dead, it is a matter of great pleasure for all devotees." And then we knew that the way we felt was all right. It was actually Vaisnava. I was staying in the Acropolis Building in Colaba at the time, in an apartment that belonged to an affluent life member, Shri P. G. Valia, but most of the other devotees were living in a hut at Juhu, and rumor had it that they were passing out sweets when they heard the news. So I guess they were also on the Vaisnava platform. So, that was Mr. Nair. Then there was another person (or demon) that joined with Mr. Nair named Mr. Ranee. He lived in an old frame house right across from Hare Krishna Land, just opposite the site of the small temple there. He had a lot of the people of Juhu in the palm of his hand, because Juhu was really just a fishing village then. Just a little while before Srila Prabhupada got Hare Krishna Land, some big hotels were built there, because of the beauty of Juhu Beach. Otherwise, Juhu had been a fishermen's village. But Ranee had some money and some intelligence, and he had a large frame mansion that looked like a haunted house. And he used to conduct séances in his yard. We would pass the area on the way to Juhu Beach. He had a number of stone chairs and an altar his garden. We don't know what went on, but sometimes at night they would meet there and light candles. And once in a while he'd have some sort of special event and a line of cars would form in front of his house. In India then, one had to be pretty rich to be able to own a car, so even affluent people were coming to him. But he was basically playing on their ignorance. And he didn't like us, because we were spreading knowledge, while he was thriving on people's ignorance. So he joined the clique--Srila Prabhupada called it a "clique"--against us. After Mr. Nair died, according to what we heard, Mrs. Nair got some money, maybe life insurance money, and used the money to bribe the police and the municipality to come and demolish the semi-permanent temple we had established for Sri Sri Radha-Rasabihari. Of course, we didn't know at the time that Mrs. Nair was behind it, but some days after Mr. Nair left his body, trucks pulled up in front of Hare Krishna Land, and dozens of municipal workers jumped out of the trucks with pick axes and sledgehammers and started to attack the temple, to demolish the temple. I immediately rushed forward, because I had been working to renew our temporary permit for the structure, and with great difficulty and Krsna's mercy we had actually obtained a letter from the Municipal Commissioner to renew the permit. Then I quickly ran to my office and brought forth the permit and showed it to the officers, but they were not in the least bit interested. So then I ran in front of the demolition crew to try to stop them, and some police constables caught me and threw me into the police van. And they did the same to Jagannivasa Prabhu, who had come to Juhu after some time in East Africa. Maithili dasi, the Deities' pujari, stood in front of the doors to the Deities' house, the Deity room, and she just wouldn't budge. Finally, three or four constables had to grab her hair and pull her away by the hair. But she was very heroic. And so they took us all to the police station. But there was one devotee who wasn't heroic in the same way. He was a Gujarati devotee named Manasvi. While we were rushing forward and being captured, he was crouching in the bushes and watching. And he got the idea to phone Balasaheb Thackeray, the leader of a strong Hindu, mainly Marathi, political party in Bombay, known to support Hindu causes. Manasvi phoned Bal Thackeray and told him what was happening. And Bal Thackeray phoned the Municipal Commissioner and told him what was happening and told him to stop the demolition of the temple. The Municipal Commissioner objected, because he too had been paid off. Then Bal Thackeray said, "Just remember who this city belongs to." So: "OK, OK, Balasaheb. OK." Then the Municipal Commissioner phoned the K-Ward Officer in Andheri, who was in charge of the Juhu area. And the Ward Officer had to come personally, running to the site to stop the demolition. While the demolition was going on, the municipal workers were able to tear down all the brickwork, the masonry, and the roof over the kirtana hall, the darsana-mandapa. Still, there were steel tubes that supported the roof. They tried to saw them, but they couldn't. So some of them went back to the ward office and got blowtorches. They came back and they were trying to cut throughthe steel tubes with the blowtorches. And Mr. Ranee, the sort of black magician, was standing on the other side of the street laughing. One lady devotee who had joined was named Gandiva dasi. She was actually the first lady who joined in Bombay. And her mother lived down the street and was also a devotee, one of the few devotees or open supporters we had in Juhu. So she came. And Mr. Mhatre was standing on the other side of the street with a few friends, watching and enjoying the fun, and Mr. Ranee was laughing, specifically when they brought out the blowtorches. So Gandiva's mother cursed Mr. Ranee: "Just as you are laughing when Krsna's temple is being burned, so one day you will burn." One morning, just at the time of mangala-arati, a few weeks later, we heard shrieks coming from the house across the street. Then we saw an ambulance drive up. Eventually we got the news that Mr. Ranee had covered his body with kerosene and set fire to himself, and he had died before the ambulance even reached his home. (Later I also heard that when a black magician sends a ghost to attack another person and the ghost fails in his mission, the ghost returns to attack and torment the one who sent him.) So, number two: two down. Now we come to number three. Mr. Mhatre was really very political, very clever. Later, in 1978, he had the idea that he could take advantage of some trouble we were in then to instigate the life members to revolt against us and take control of the Society. So he made an alliance with Mr. V. K. Tembe, who was a member of the Legislative Assembly, an M.L.A, in the same political party as Mr. Mhatre, and, like Mhatre, a Maharastrian. So, Mhatre came up with the idea that Mr. Tembe, who himself had joined ISKCON as a life member many years earlier, should organize the life members to try to take control of the Society from us. Thus, at a big meeting of ISKCON life members, Mr. Tembe spoke very passionately, as politicians do, to say we were not qualified to run the temple and the temple should be taken out of our hands and run by the life members. One day soon thereafter, when Tembe was on the sidewalk in front of the state government building, called Sachivalaya, which houses all the state government offices, for no clear medical reason, he collapsed on the pavement and died. So, three: three for three. But there was still Mr. Mhatre. In 1978, after Tamal Krishna Goswami became the GBC for Bombay, we were discussing, "What about Mr. Mhatre? Why isn't he getting any reaction?" Then Tamal Krishna Goswami quoted the verse from the Bhagavad-gita, "For one who has been honored, dishonor is worse than death." So I made note of this. And again, within some months, Mr. Mhatre was totally dishonored. It seems that he was a real rogue. Probably they all were, but he got caught. There was a municipal school right across from the temple, right next to Mr. Ranee's property. Now it was revealed that Mhatre was having an affair with another woman, and also that to get appointed as a teacher in the school, one had to do sexual favors for Mr. Mhatre. Somehow Mr. Mhatre's wife found out, and she threw him out of the house. Also, he was a little tyrant in Juhu, taking bribes from everyone. For the simplest thing you'd have to pay him a bribe; otherwise you couldn't get any work done. And on the other hand, even if you were totally innocent and just minding your own business, he would harass you and create complaints against you and send you notices and this and that. Thus, just to avoid being harassed by him, people would pay him. So when these scandals were exposed, peoples' hatred for him and anger towards him all came out. One day, when I was in one of the offices in the temple building, we heard sounds like there was a procession on Juhu Road in front of the temple. So we came out to look and we got the news that it was a morcha, a protest march against Mr. Mhatre, with banners and slogans and a picture of Mhatre garlanded with shoes. At least in India, the way to really disgrace or insult someone is to garland the person's picture with chappals, or Indian shoes. It's considered the greatest insult to put a garland of shoes around someone. That was the procession, and then I again remembered the verse from Bhagavad-gita quoted by Tamal Krishna Goswami: "For one who has been honored, dishonor is worse than death." So, this is purifying. It is purifying not only to speak of the glories of devotees as such, but it is purifying also to speak of the demons and how they are punished by the Lord, especially when they harass devotees. Thus, we find descriptions in the Bhagavatam of the Lord killing demons, and as Prahlada Maharaja said, "Even saintly persons take pleasure when a snake or scorpion is killed." Sri Prahlada spoke those memorable, immortal words, to Lord Nrsimhadeva after He had killed Hiranyakasipu. Lord Nrsimhadeva was so furious after killing Hiranyakasipu that no one could pacify Him. Lord Brahma; Narada; Laksmi, the Goddess of Fortune and eternal consort of the Lord--no one could pacify the Lord's anger. Then they asked Prahlada to go forward. And then Prahlada spoke the verse: tad yaccha manyum asuras ca hatas tvayadya modeta sadhur api vrscika-sarpa-hatya lokas ca nirvrtim itah pratiyanti sarve rupam nrsimha vibhayaya janah smaranti "My Lord Nrsimhadeva, please, therefore, cease Your anger now that my father, the great demon Hiranyakasipu, has been killed. Since even saintly persons take pleasure in the killing of a scorpion or a snake, all the worlds have achieved great satisfaction because of the death of this demon. Now they are confident of their happiness, and they will always remember Your auspicious incarnation in order to be free from fear." (SB 7.9.14) Srila Prabhupada has explained the purport: Hiranyakasipu was already killed, so Lord Narasimha had no cause to be angry at him. Why, then, was He still angry? He was angry because He apprehended that people might find fault with Him for having killed Hiranyakasipu. So in effect, Prahlada said to the Lord, "Don't be angry. No one will find fault with You for killing him. No one will blame You. Even saintly persons take pleasure when a snake or a scorpion is killed. So we are all jubilant. Don't feel that we're going to be upset or angry with You because You've killed the demon." Then, when Lord Nrsimhadeva understood that His deed had been accepted even by the most saintly of persons, Prahlada Maharaja, His anger subsided. Now here, in today's verse, the demons are described as angry. But their anger is based on the frustration of lust. They are lusty, and when their lust is frustrated, they become angry. But the Lord's anger and the devotees' anger arise when their love and service to the Lord and other devotees is transgressed. They feel pained when demons vent their anger against the Lord and the devotees. Anyway, I feel very purified (though I'm not sure in which category I personally fall), but I do feel very purified discussing how the Lord killed the demons that opposed the Lord's dearmost devotee and foremost preacher, Srila Prabhupada. * Afterword: Devotees and Demons at Juhu One other incident that highlights the difference between devotees and demons took place in 1978, shortly after Srila Prabhupada left. Before Srila Prabhupada departed, he had expressed his concern for the major properties he had acquired for Krsna's service in Vrndavana, Mayapur, and Juhu. The properties were valuable--and coveted by others. He warned us specifically to beware of his Godbrothers in Mayapur, of the caste Gosvamis in Vrndavana, and of the Municipality in Juhu. Around June of 1978, there was a riot on the steps of the Juhu temple, and Mr. Mhatre took advantage of the situation to mobilize public opinion against the devotees. He systematically went to newspapers and bribed reporters to publish articles against us. He claimed that we were murderers, smugglers, drug dealers, drug addicts, kidnappers, womanizers, CIA agents, spies, and whatnot. He even claimed in one major newspaper article that the spires on the tops of the domes of the temple were actually radio antennas used to receive and transmit CIA messages. So under Mr. Mhatre's instigation, the police came to search the temple premises for radio transmitters, contraband, drugs, foreign currency, and whatever. The police went so far as to search even the Deity rooms and pujari areas. After they had searched the entire premises, only one place remained: Srila Prabhupada's quarters. They insisted that they wanted to search Prabhupada's quarters, and we, of course, resisted, because, obviously, we wanted to preserve the sanctity of Srila Prabhupada's rooms. But they were determined, and in the end we had to agree. So, reluctantly Tamal Krishna Goswami accompanied them to Srila Prabhupada's quarters, where, of course, they found nothing incriminating. At the end of the investigation, the police officer, still in Srila Prabhuapda's quarters, asked Goswami Maharaja, "Do you know why we are investigating you?" Goswami Maharaja ventured, "Because we are so many foreigners here." The officer replied, "No, there are more foreigners at the Holiday Inn. Why are we investigating you?" Finally, Goswami Maharaja said, "Maybe you should tell us." The officer then remarked, "At the Holiday Inn, they eat meat, drink alcohol, engage in prostitution, and indulge in all sorts of sense gratification. But here you refrain from meat, intoxication, illicit sex, and gambling, and you declare in a very loud voice that others also should not eat meat, drink, have illicit sex, and gamble. That's why we are investigating you." The astute officer's frank statement clearly highlighted the difference between devotees and demons. Devotees use all resources for the glorification of the Lord, to broadcast the message of Krsna consciousness. And demons use all resources to engage in sinful activities and enjoy sense gratification. And when the devotees act and preach in such a way as to oppose the demons' sense gratification, the demons react. Soon thereafter, I found one purport by Srila Prabhupada where he explained exactly what the police officer had intimated--how the demons react to the devotees: "Demons are very much disturbed when devotees worship the Lord in the prescribed ways recommended in the scriptures. In the Vedic scriptures, the devotees are advised to engage in nine kinds of devotional service, such as to hear and chant the holy name of God, to remember Him always, to chant on beads Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare, to worship the Lord in the form of His Deity incarnation in the temples, and to engage in various activities of Krsna consciousness to increase the number of godly persons for perfect peace in the world. Demons do not like such activity. They are always envious of God and His devotees. Their propaganda not to worship in the temple or church but simply to make material advancement for satisfaction of the senses is always current. … Demons are always anxious to have a godless society for their sense gratification." (SB 3.18.5p) Srila Prabhupada's words--"Their propaganda not to worship in the temple or church but simply to make material advancement for the satisfaction of the senses is always current"--struck me: The differences between the devotees and the demons and the struggles that took place between them ages ago are "always current"--always. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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