Sadhusanganandana Offended at Being Called GHQ Member

[Guest guest]

Hare Krsna dasi

*********************************

 

I want to apologize if I am mistaken in naming Sadhusanganandana as one

of the members of the GHQ conference. As is evident from the

correspondence below, this has caused him some inconvenience, which I am

sorry for:

 

***************************************

Nonsense alelgation

Fri, 18 Dec 98 06:27 -0500

"COM: Sadhusangananda (das) HKS (Boston - USA)"

<Sadhusangananda.HKS (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>

"COM: Hare Krsna dasi (Brunswick, Maine - USA)"

<Hare.Krsna.dasi (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>

 

[Text 1946155 from COM]

 

Pamho. Where does the nonsense allegation come from that I was part of

the

GHQ conference? It is disappointing that you are joining the ranks of

gossipping devotees who don't mind to spread false information. Y.s.

 

**************************************

 

Motivation

Sat, 19 Dec 98 12:54 -0500

"COM: Sadhusangananda (das) HKS (Boston - USA)"

<Sadhusangananda.HKS (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>

"COM: Hare Krsna dasi (Brunswick, Maine - USA)"

<Hare.Krsna.dasi (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>

 

[Text 1949914 from COM]

 

The fact that you signed on repeatedly after I wrote my legitimate

complaint

but did not find it worthy to apologize for the false information you

spread

about me shows your motivation in the matter. However, if you research

long

enough you may be able to criticize me for something else. Very

revealing.

 

***************************************

 

Request

Tue, 22 Dec 98 17:05 -0500

"COM: Sadhusangananda (das) HKS (Boston - USA)"

<Sadhusangananda.HKS (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>

"COM: Raktambara (das) HKS (SysOp) (NE-BBT)"

<Raktambara.HKS (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>

CC: "COM: Hare Krsna dasi (Brunswick, Maine - USA)"

<Hare.Krsna.dasi (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>

 

 

[Text 1958228 from COM]

 

Pamho. AGTSP.

 

Below is a message that was sent out by Hare Krsna dasi a few days ago.

She

put me on the list of devotees who were on a conference named GHQ.

However,

I have never been on that conference, in fact only heard about the

existence

of that conference a few weeks ago. Because of being named on that list

I

did not only get "anonymous" hate letters but also unnecessary and

unpalatable letters from devotees asking me about my involvement. This

is

obviously a major disturbance and disadvantageous for my service.

 

A few days ago, I requested Hare Krsna dasi to explain herself + rectify

her

mistake but she didn't even find it worthy to respond. Therefore I

request

that her com account will be closed for three months as she is guilty of

a)

spreading wrong and harmful information and b) not willing to rectify or

 

apologize for it. Also, since it is not a fact that I am either a

misogonyst

or that I have been a member of the GHQ conference, there should be an

correction and/or apology posted in all the conferences she posted the

message below.

 

Thank you for your attention.

 

Y.s.

 

PS: Due to the seriousness of Mother Hare Krsna dasi's message and its

reactions so far I will eventually forward this letter to you also to

the GBC.

 

 

--------- Forwarded Message ----------

 

Text COM:1942362 (652 lines)

Hare Krsna dasi (Brunswick, Maine - USA)

17-Dec-98 00:59

Sridhari (dd) JPS (Mendoza - ARG) [1155] (forwarded:

17-Dec-98

01:00)

(ISKCON) Social and Economic Development [2272]

Varnasrama development [8272]

Remark: Protected receiver: (International) Women's Ministry

16 ISKCON Leaders Respond to Claims of Sexist Allegiance

---------------------------

Hare Krsna dasi

16 ISKCON Leaders Respond to Claims of Sexist Allegiance

************************************************

(This will be the final updated version of responses. Any other

responses will be posted separately.)

 

In September a private conference named "GHQ" was created on COM with

the

objective of pursuing goals such as eliminating women from leadership

position in ISKCON, terminating the present women's ministry, and

prohibiting women from giving classes or leading kirtans.

 

As of mid September the group included 5 sannaysis and about a dozen

other

men:

 

Bhakti Vikasa Swami

Trivikrama Swami,

Bhanu Swami (Madras - IN)

Rasananda Swami (USA),

Danavir das Goswami (USA)

 

Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP (Baroda - IN)

Dayaram (das) JPS (Mayapur - IN),

Goloka Candra (das) JPS (Malaysia)

Guru-Krsna (das) HDG (Alachua, FL - USA)

Jasomatinandan (das) ACBSP (Gujarat - IN)

Jaya Tirtha Charan (das) JPS

Jivan Mukta (das) TSI (Back to Basics) (Ontario - CAN)

Krishna Kirti (das) HDG (Baltimore - USA)

Prithu (das) ACBSP

Shyamasundara (das) ACBSP (Florida Vedic College -USA)

Svavasa (das) ACBSP (NA-BBT)

Vidvan Gauranga (das) JPS (Mayapur - IN)

Ameyatma Dasa.

Sadhusangananda (das)

 

Danavir das Goswami distanced himself from the conference as soon as it

became public knowledge, noting that he had canceled his membership

almost

immediately because he did not agree with its mood and tactics. As noted

in

a message from the Executive Committee of the North American GBC,

multiple

statements on the conference were made to ridicule, berate and vilify

devotee women, especially those in leadership positions.

 

*************************************************

*************************************************

(HKDD responds 28 Dec 1998)

 

In listing Sadhusangananda prabhu as a member of the GHQ conference, I

did so because his name was included on the original list posted on the

COM varnasrama.development (and other conferences) in November. The

original posting called "Major Conspiracy Exposed" also included a

letter written by him, and I believed that this letter was part of the

GHQ correspondence because it was included on the public posting.

However, upon closely reading the letter, I see that although the

subject was how to limit women's participation in devotional services in

ISKCON and although it was addressed to several members of the

conference, it was not addressed to the conference itself. Therefore,

it seems that Sadhusangananda was not aware of the inside dealings of

these men and was not aware of the blasphemous texts of the GHQ nor of

their treacherous plans to engage in character attacks in an attempt to

terminate the current women's ministry and curtail various service

opportunities for women in ISKCON. I have not seen any of the hate mail

that Sadhusangananda prabhu received, but I am personally against any

type of hate mail, especially any anonymous letters which he states he

has received. This will not benefit any good cause.

 

I have not responded earlier because I wanted to take the time to

retrieve Sadhusangananda's original letter from the published GHQ files,

to illustrate how the misunderstanding arose:

 

***************************

 

 

 

Letter COM:1725519 (34 lines)

Internet: Sadhu1008 (AT) aol (DOT) com

27-Sep-98 23:38

Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP (Baroda - IN) [6269] (received:

28-Sep-98

00:35)

Cc: Shyamasundara (das) ACBSP (Florida Vedic College - USA)

[5138]

(sender: Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP (Baroda - IN))

Cc: Jivan Mukta Dasa (sent: 28-Sep-98 00:49)

(sender: Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP (Baroda - IN))

Comment: Text COM:1725605 by Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP (Baroda - IN)

Essay on women in ISKCON

---------------------------

Pamho. AGTSP.

 

After having been attacked recently in a somewhat outrageous way by one

of the feminist leaders of the movement, and her academic boyfriend, I

have taken my time to 'get into the issue' again and read hundreds of

texts in various women issue related conferences. Since I found yours

very balanced, sastrically sound and in general very good I humbly

request you to compile a sound essay for the GBC before they get

completely swamped with feminist demands and proposals. Currently, the

GBC is practically caving in under their pressure, the NA GBC meetings

are already controlled by them in an embarrassing way, etc.

 

If you could take out time for this project, you could do the movement a

great favor.

 

It is interesting to note in this regard that most of the religious

movements which are considered the faster growing ones in the world

(like the Mormons) don't put women in leadership positions and they have

no problem with that. In fact, they are surprised that we do. In other

words the argument that we have to cater to the senses to mundaners,

academics, feminists, etc. in order to grow as a movement is simply

bogus.

 

Anyway, so much more could be said, but I just wanted to express my

appreciation for your realizations on the matter and hope that you will

find time to render a conclusive paper to the movement which is pleasing

to Srila Prabhupada and helpful for generations to come.

 

Hope this meets you well.

 

Y.s. Sadhusangananda das

..

(Text COM:1725519) --------

 

*********************************************************

 

(HKDD 28 Dec 98, continued)

 

Not only was this letter published in November, but later in November,

one devotee responded to Sadhusangananda's thoughts about the Mormon

Church. I assumed that if he were not a GHQ member, he would have

spoken out at that date. But, unfortunately, he must not have received

the following text:

 

************************************************

 

Re: CONSPIRACY Part 3

Mon, 23 Nov 98 16:10 +0100

"COM: (Bhakta) Ivar Verploegh (Antwerpen - B)"

<Ivar.Verploegh (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>

Ivar.Verploegh (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se, Varnasrama.development (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se,

Women's.Ministry (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se,

Social.and.Economic.Development (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se

"COM: Varnasrama development" <Varnasrama.development (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>

CC: "COM: (ISKCON) Social and Economic Development"

<Social.and.Economic.Development (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se> ,

"COM: (International) Women's Ministry" <Women's.Ministry (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>

 

[Text 1875033 from COM]

 

---------- Forwarded Message ----------

 

Letter COM:1874779 (76 lines)

Internet: Loladd1 (AT) aol (DOT) com

23-Nov-98 12:50

Re: CONSPIRACY Part 3

---------------------------

Dear Sadhusangananda Prabhu,

 

Please accept my obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

 

Here is feedback on your thought regarding the Mormon church growing

even though they don't have women in leadership positions. Although

brief and only touching on the issue, I hope this note may illuminate

the point a little. Here is the quote of your writing in a letter to

Basu Ghosh Prabhu which was printed on the GHQ conference.

 

>It is interesting to note in this regard that most of the religious

>movements which are considered the faster growing ones in the world

>(like the Mormons) don't put women in leadership positions and they

have

>no problem with that. In fact, they are surprised that we do. In other

>words the argument that we have to cater to the senses to mundaners,

>academics, feminists, etc. in order to grow as a movement is simply

>bogus.

 

My feedback does not in any way address the entirety of GHQ but deals

with how the Mormons treat women. It is true that their senior

spiritual leadership positions are held by men who hold the priesthood

(only men can hold the priesthood and they must be qualified to do so).

Having grown up in the Mormon church and still having friends and

relatives in that church I can tell you the these male spiritual leaders

strongly encourage (give courage to) women. Women are honored and

respected, not just by lip service, but by how they are treated daily.

Women are exalted for their roles of wives, mothers, teachers, community

builders, and also preachers. Women are asked from an early age to

speak in church services, lead singing, to be executives of the womens

auxillary branch of the church known as "Relief Society" as well as the

"Primary" which is a branch dealing with the religious training of

children. Women are encouraged to go on "missions", which are two year

periods before marriage where they travel and preach. The family is

considered most important, with the women taking crucial outgoing roles

to enhance their families and communities. They are valued and loved

for this.

 

All of the Mormons I know have no problem with male leaders because the

whole society is being honored and taken care of by those men. Women

and their families sit anywhere in the church pews that they wish;

front, back, it doesn't matter. Women are smiled at and warmly greeted

by the leaders when they arrive at services. Marriage is considered a

spiritual, sanctified, state. No one indicates that proper association

with women is in any way disadvantages for spiritual life, gives women

negative labels, or speaks harshly to or about them. There is

absolutely no chuch discrimination of any sort against women in daily

activities. The only difference is in the topmost spiritual positions.

Why would women or anyone else have a problem with such

leadership?

 

On the side of GHQ, however there appears to be a desire to have no

women devotees give class, lead kirtans, lead womens activities, work in

PR etc. This is highly different than the mood of the Mormons.

 

I realize that the activities of Mormons are not binding on us or

necessarily something that ISKCON need take example from. However, you

were thinking that their example shows how we don't have to cater "...to

mundaners, academics, feminists, etc. in order to grow as a

movement..." Please note that in my opinion Mormons treat women

admirably, whether their topmost leaders are men or not. (although they

do have many community level leaders who are women).

 

If the women of ISKCON felt loved, honored, and protected do you think

the majority of them would care who the leaders are. The key is: let us

have GOOD leadership, whatever it takes. If the spiritual and material

needs of women and children (and many men for that matter) in our

society are not being taken care of by the men, are you surprised that

there is a clamour for leaders who will consider women, children and the

simple brahmacari as valuable people.

I would personally be very happy if the devotee men would do a good job

of this.

 

I suggest that you first establish enough male devotees who are doing

excellent jobs of taking care of all the members of ISKCON. Then the

women devotees may happily defer the management to them. You can't

reasonably expect to displace anyone unless you have something that can

be practically seen to work better. Show us, then ask us to cooperate.

Perhaps grhasta men

in management would do better than sannyasis who have not gone through

ideal grhasta life, and therefore are not aware of the practical details

necessary to run a society of all asramas. That however is another

subject.

 

your servant.

Lola devi dasi ACBSP

loladd1 (AT) aol (DOT) com

(Text COM:1874779) --------

 

*************************************************

*************************************************

 

Sadhusangananda wrote:

 

<<The fact that you signed on repeatedly after I wrote my legitimate

complaint

but did not find it worthy to apologize for the false information you

spread

about me shows your motivation in the matter. However, if you research

long

enough you may be able to criticize me for something else.>>

 

*****************************

 

HKDD responds:

 

Again I apologize, Sadhusangananda Prabhu. I am sorry for

misunderstanding that you were an actual member of the GHQ and not

someone who was simply being led along by their campaign. And I

apologize not responding to you sooner, but I wanted to take the time to

show you the different pieces of correspondence which led me to believe

that you were a participant on the GHQ conference. As for researching

to find personal information to discredit someone, this is a GHQ tactic,

and not something that I have the inclination nor even the time to

engage in. Please don't worry about me on that score. I hope this

letter will help clarify the situation and end the misunderstanding. I

guess the other practical thing that you could do to correct any

misconceptions is to make some statement which illustrates the

responsible services that women do in the Boston temple, including

giving Bhagavatam class, leading kirtans, administering temple programs,

etc. This would probably be more effective than anything I could say to

rectify misconceptions about your position on matters of women's

involvement in ISKCON.

 

Finally, I guess I wanted to conclude by saying that although the GHQ

list has been widely circulated by now, if somehow I have included any

other devotees who do not want to be associated with that group, I hope

they will contact me so that I can correct it if there are any

additional mistakes in the list of participants.

 

Your servant,

 

Hare Krsna dasi