Alternative Forms of Punishment - Canakya Book Review

[Guest guest]

Very exciting idea. The Prison ministry must be aleady experiencing success

much along the lines you have suggested. Those devotees involved in the

prison ministry could be the first ones to approach officials to try and

introduce the chanting officially as official therapy for which a prisoner

may get reduced sentencing and early release for a change of character, (if

they havent already done so). That would be a start.

Actually using the chanting as an alternative punishment, well that is a

long shot. Perhaps devotees of a kshatriya nature (ie some retired or

veteran military devotees, and know that there are some) need to actually

form a company to get prison contracts and then run the whole prison based

on chanting and devotional service under strict discipline, at least

starting with first time offenders for lesser crimes and gradually progress

up top the hard criminals. In some states they have already tried army-style

bootcamps for younger offenders and have had amazing success by simply

giving the inmates a kind of harsh discipline that becomes self-discipline

after a while. Imagine adding a regime of chanting and devotional activites

as well. Could be very potent indeed.

 

The negative side of me says that many devotees joined ISKCON with criminal

karmas carried over from previous lives, eg Kirtananda himself, the devotee

who killed Jayatirtha etc and that perhaps in most cases the chanting does

not cure one of severe karmas so easily. I heard that SP once commented that

Hansadutta had killed many people in previous lives. He certainly had a hard

time with his inner nature during his sannyas years. Anyway great idea.

Please inform me how to get this book.

 

YS PD

 

 

 

> Text PAMHO:8977054 (157 lines)

> Prabhupadacarya (das) (New Delhi - IN)

> 05-Nov-04 21:51 -0800 (11:21 +0530)

> Ganga (dd) IDS (CIS SysOp) [47593] (received: 06-Nov-04 04:07

> -0800)

> Krishna Dharma (das) (London - UK) [10588] (received:

> 05-Nov-04

> 21:53 -0800)

> Modern Culture in Relation to Varnashrama [16250]

> Cc: Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP (Baroda - IN) [61118] (received:

> 06-Nov-04

> 02:16 -0800)

> For: Free Forum (Announcements)

> Cc-For: ISKCON India (news & discussion)

> Reference: Text PAMHO:8789812 by Krishna Dharma (das) (London - UK)

> Alternative Forms of Punishment - Canakya Book Review

> ---------------------------

> Regarding the discussions on Manu Samhita, I suggest there is another work

> compiled by Canakya Pandita that may be more relevant to us and claims to

> be an unabridged compilation of the works of Manu, Yajnavalkya, Parashara,

> and others. While the views of all are represented, the author sometimes

> diverges. Srila Prabhupada makes some reference in Bhagavatam to the fact

> that Canakya is the modern authority on such matters to be followed by us

> now (even perhaps above Manu), and confirms that by noting that Canakya's

> teachings should be taught in our Gurukula.

>

> Canakya has clearly been empowered to adjust the application of these

> principles for this Kali Yuga, yet I don't find that he essentially

> changes anything. More often than not he settles the conflicting views of

> the ancient dharma sastra authorities as there are various schools who

> give stress to various ideas. Canakya acts as a sort of referee between

> these schools and sometimes overrides them all.

>

> Interestingly, this book was lost, more or less, and came to light for

> translation around the time of Srila Prabhupada's appearance. Probably

> lost due to being kept very tightly and secretly. What this book

> essentially is, is approx. 6000 verses that describe every conceivable

> situation and duty a ksatriya or head of state might encounter along with

> a series of essential remedies for the same. When they say "He used every

> trick in the book", this is clearly "the book" referred to. Indian culture

> is riddled with these tricks that have clearly been inherited through oral

> tradition.

>

> What becomes starkly apparent by reading it is how "un-brahminical" the

> duties of ksatriyas are. A problem we find in ISKCON is a tendency, if not

> policy, to want to hold everyone to one standard of behavior, as

> brahmanas. But as has been pointed out, varnasrama means all four

> divisions, and therefore ksatriya behavior is also within the scope of our

> alternative society, and Srila Prabhupada certainly made that clear.

>

> The book is of course Kautilya Artha Sastra, and I have copies available

> that I purchased for a management course. If anyone needs one, I believe

> this is the best. I did some considerable research and spoke with several

> Indologists who all agreed this to be the best English translation

> available so far. This I suggest is the book we need to consider

> developing purports for first, but mostly to link the concepts to our

> philosophy and bridge the cultural gap needed to introduce such severe

> administrative methods in some cases.

>

> I accept the need for Vedic law and order and value it, at the same time,

> I am also an advocate for Harinama-remedies as an alternative form of

> punishment and believe as followers of Lord Caitanya, this is where our

> real contribution should focus. I got the idea from Srila Bhaktivinoda's

> teachings that one can advance spiritually even if engaged in chanting "by

> force". The process is that powerful and evidence is there how Lord

> Caitanya gave Krishna prema to those who sincerely didn't want it.

> Contrary to popular notions, you can "force" someone to advance

> spiritually.

>

> This not-as-palatable approach to harinama as an alternative form of

> capital punishment is best typified by Srila Prabhupada's concept of

> "Chant Hare Krishna or 'Bang, Bang'". Essentially the idea is to invoke

> the strict and severe punishment model offered by Manu and others (ie.

> hand chopping for thieves, etc), but also offer an alternative form of

> punishment, which is of course, monitored constant chanting during waking

> hours for real atonement,

>

> While punishment clears the offender of the sin committed it does nothing

> for other sins committed. Repentance can clear all sins committed but does

> nothing to the seeds of sin lying dormant. Only devotional service based

> on hearing and chanting clears all sins and fries the seeds. So this is

> where we are going to make a contribution to reducing the rate of repeat

> offenders by literally transforming Jagais and Madhais into sadhus. If it

> is really successful though, I fear people might go out to commit crimes

> wanting to enroll in this program! Some people literally won't chant

> unless their life depends upon it! Srila Prabhupada calls them "Chant

> Chant CHant---Can't, Can't Can't". So for them we also should have a

> program. Why not?

>

> If we can convince a state to allow us to experiment on life sentence

> prisoners, or perhaps felons who will return to the outside world, we can

> demonstrate and document the efficacy of the holy name to reform the

> criminal mentality and reduce the rate of repeat offenders. This is real

> communications work if we can persuade some govt to try it. Of course we

> can try it ourselves if we get our own "place". Srila Prabhupada spoke of

> the need for a Vaishnava state where we can train ksatriyas. So maybe when

> Kirtanananda gets his Carribean Island he can try arresting his opponents

> and making them chant instead of putting a bullet through their head? I am

> sure he had some realizations and ideas how to run a better KC prison

> after 8 years inside one. Whoever knowshim can pass this idea on to him.

>

> In practice the judge will sentence the convict to the death penalty, for

> example in a murder case that proceeds like any other case until the point

> of sentencing (witnesses, etc), but then the judge explains he has an

> option, "to undergo forced constant chanting or death by hanging". In

> other words "Chant Hare Krishna or Bang Bang!" In this way people would

> actually have to choose the death penalty voluntarily. "They asked for

> it!" Who could then criticize us for impelementing the laws of Manu? We

> would rather, I would imagine, be seen as the most merciful and civilized

> societyand virtually crime-free.

>

> The rod of chastisement would certainly serve at a deterrant and for those

> who are not deterred it will certainly be their last serious crime, either

> because they chanted and atoned, or because they chose the severest form

> of punishment. Either way, we will clean up the criminal mess society is

> currently deluged by in the MOST HUMANE way possible. As the problem

> intensifies I am sure this plan will start to look attractive especially

> if we can test it and prove it, but no one is aware of this option at

> present. I imagine people would start to flock to live in such a place! We

> would have to have a very big immigration department!

>

> Our communications experts should begin probing and looking for

> opportunities to try something like this. It is cheap, cost-effective and

> harmless. They can easily be monitored, and devotees can go in to educate

> the offenders on the glories of chanting appropriate for them without

> giving away the symptoms of advanced devotion we are looking for to

> prevent bluffing.

>

> I am sure some people who are even against us would think it is a great

> punishment and go along with it! "Yeah make them chant Hare Krishna all

> day! That is worse than death!" hahaha. Anyway, once we see the symptoms

> of advanced devotion manifest and test for those symptoms (like

> asta-sattvika bhavas, which can be also imitated by yogis at will, but not

> as easily as anubhavas), we can try releasing them and engaging them in

> farm communities, preaching, or whatever and then monitor them and measure

> the results.

>

> At least it is worth an experiment. Maybe Kirtanananda has a function to

> fulfill for our society? We can use his colony to try out some of this

> stuff that I imagine ISKCON would not want to risk implementing, or be in

> a position soon to implement. I heard from someone he is planning to

> implement varnasrama on his own island in the Carribbean. Anyone else hear

> this? Based on his track record, I am sure Manu will be his choice of

> crime control there, and hopefully he has atoned enough himself to see the

> value of this alternative method.

>

> Back to the book, in comparing Artha Sastra with Manu Samhita, Manu is

> more like a classrooom textbook, and Artha Sastra is more like the

> teachers edition with an insiders view. It is powerful knowledge that I

> imagine certain people wouldn't want to empower you with, and that were

> you in a political situation you wouldn't want others to have as well.

>

> But since it is out in the public certainly we should have this knowledge

> and begin to understand the importance it plays in society today and

> ISKCON of the future. The Indian army was reported in the newspaper as

> conducting research into some of the more archane remedies mentioned in

> this book. It is certainly one of the most interesting books I have ever

> read that is packed with all the essential keys we need to unlock the

> implementation of varnasrama and Vedic society as a whole,

>

> I still have several extra new unused copies so let me know if you need

> one. I am in Vrindavan and can ship it to you via air, your own devotee

> courier or sea ship,

>

> "Hare Krishna"-the real weapon to curb crime. Imagine the possibilities!

> It is afterall categorized by Bhagavatam as an "astra".

>

> Giving people love of God to curb hate crimes. Isn't that our mission "to

> educate all people in the techniques of spiritual life in order to check

> the imbalance of values in life in order to achieve real peace in the

> world." (paraphrased). Certainly there is an imbalance, and certainly

> harinama in the technique.

>

> In one sense it is by force and in another not because they have a choice.

> You can chose to chant or chose the death penalty. WOW. That is like

> saying "Do you want the highest ecstatic nectar or do you want me to kill

> you?" Amazing concept and WE KNOW it will work.

>

> Any comments?

> (Text PAMHO:8977054) ------