Swaminarayan - status

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Hare Krishna Sharmaji, _/\o_ (obeisances)

 

> I have been following krsna consciousness for the last 4yrs and recently

> have come to know about swaminarayan who they claim as godhead. It is very

> hard to digest the fact. can you throw some light on this matter.

 

If you read the books of Shri Shrimad A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada,

you'll find that he is strong on the point of recognizing real avatara and

not following any fake one. See his quotes below. Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu

taught Sanatana Gosvami about it and it's recorded in Shri

Chaitanya-charitamrta. See www.veda.harekrsna.cz/encyclopedia/avatars.htm

 

In 1998 I got the following quotes from Vasudeva Mahatmya of Skanda Purana,

which supposedly prove Swaminarayan (SN) to be God, directly from one SN's

follower. Errors (like "praplam" instead of "praptam") preserved, my

comments in :

 

Here comes the Sanskrit and then the translation of Vasudeva Mahatmya

18.43-44:

 

Dharmadevattanda Murtau Naranarayanamana |

Pravrultepi Kalau Brahman Bhutwaham Samage Dwijah || 43

Munishapat-Nrutam Praplam Sarshijanakalmanah |

Tatovita Gurubhyaham Saddharma-sthapayan Aja || 44 [skand...Vasudev...181]

 

O! Brahman! I will born in Kaliyug in the house of Samvedi Brahman, named

Dharmadev and Bhaktidevi (Murti). I will protect the human being of Munis

and Dharma suffering from the curse of Durvasa, and establish "Saddharma."

(Religion as a good conduct)

 

[However, my VM translation mentions neither Kali-yuga nor Durvasa:

43 In Kosala-desa on the earth I will be born as Narayana Rsi, the son of

Dharma. 44 O Brahma, when cursed by a muni, some rsis take birth as human

beings, I will protect them from the demons.]

 

My friend Ekanath Prabhu supplied full Sanskrit for the above with a short

commentary and translation:

 

The complete reference in the Venkatesvara edition is 2.9.18.43-44.

It is confirmed that 2.9 is Vasudeva Mahatmya. The Sanskrit is as follows:

 

43

dharma-dev€t tad€ bhakt€d

ahaˆ n€r€yaŠo muniƒ

janiye koale dee

bh™mau hi s€mago dvijaƒ

 

44

muni-€p€n nt€ˆ pr€pt€n

…ˆs t€ta tathoddhavam

tato 'vit€surebhyo 'haˆ

sad-dharmaˆ sth€payann aja

 

As you can see your VM is quite accurate, only it leaves out a few details.

The curse may have come from Durvasa. It is indeed mentioned that he will

establish sad-dharma; but there is no name of a mother (if her name was

"Bhakti", then the word bhakt€d cannot refer to her, because this is the

abl.sing. ending of a masculine noun; for bhakti it would have to be

bhakty€ƒ or bhakteƒ); Kali yuga is not mentioned.

 

43 "From Dharma-deva, then, from the devotee, I, N€r€yaŠa-muni, shall take

birth on this earth, in the land of Koala, indeed, as a br€hmaŠa, a singer

of the S€ma-Veda." 44 "O Brahma, when cursed by a muni, some rsis take birth

as human beings, I will protect them from the demons and I will establish

the principles of religion."

 

--

 

The page - http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Temple/4021/supreme.htm

further says:

 

According to Vedvyasa in the Samvat year 1837, on the ninth day of the

bright fortnight of Chaitra month Shree Swaminarayan was born in the house

of Dharmadev and Bhaktimata. Thus it is proved by Vedvyasa that Shree

Swaminarayan is manifestation of persons of Purushottam. In other scripture

we can also find many proofs like The Shrimad Bhagvad, The Shivpuran, The

Vishwaksen Sanhita, Narad Panchratra etc. There is no doubt his supremacy,

One is fool who doesn't believe in scriptural evidence.

 

Shree Swaminarayan Himself says His manifestation of supreme personality. He

says, [1]

 

"Ahamatosmyev, Sarvavtarkaranam |

Avatari Parabrahmakshardhampatih prabhuh ||" [Guna. 4/5-173]

 

"So I am the source of all incarnations and I am the supreme and I am the

master of Akshardham (divine abode of Purushottam)."

 

--

 

Jan: He claims to be Supreme God but we know that the genuine incarnation

doesn't claim to be an incarnation. The reference "Guna." is unclear.

 

That SN person supplied also another verse, or part of it, from Brahmanda

Purana:

 

dvaapare vaasudevasyat

kalo swami vr(u)s(h)atmajah (this word is unclear in his quote)

 

Ekanath P.:

 

There is no verse in the Brahmanda P., beginning with "dvaapare vaasudeva.."

It could be the second half of a verse (my indexes show only the first

line). If he could quote the full verse or tell the context, then I could

try again. Sometimes there is simply a slight difference in wording, like

"dvitiiye" for "dvaapare". I have two editions of the Brahmanda P. and I

also checked in the Vayu P.

 

--

 

That SN person didn't specify the verse above. He sent me also Shikshapatri,

the main text of SN group. It's simply a book of instructions - as the name

suggests - for SN's followers. I didn't find any major discrepancies from

Gaudiya Vaishnava siddhanta, just there is more stress on karma ritual and

varna assignments if I remember well.

 

All of those quotes seem to refer to Narayana Rsi (eternal associate of Nara

Rsi) of Vedic times and not to any recently born person. SB 2.7.6 (see also

4.1.52, 7.11.6, or 11.4.6):

 

dharmasya daka-duhitary ajani˜a m™rty€ˆ

n€r€yaŠo nara iti sva-tapaƒ-prabh€vaƒ

d˜v€tmano bhagavato niyam€valopaˆ

devyas tv ana‰ga-ptan€ gha˜ituˆ na ekuƒ

 

"To exhibit His personal way of austerity and penance, He appeared in twin

forms as N€r€yaŠa and Nara in the womb of M™rti, the wife of Dharma and the

daughter of Daka. Celestial beauties, the companions of Cupid, went to try

to break His vows, but they were unsuccessful, for they saw that many

beauties like them were emanating from Him, the Personality of Godhead."

 

We as Gaudiya Vaishnavas don't accept SN as an avatara because of the

lack/vagueness of evidence for the same. As far as I know he was a Ramanuja

sadhu deified by his followers. This is quite commmon in India, especially

in Kali-yuga. On the other hand, there is a plenty of proof for genuineness

of Shri Krishna and Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu

(www.veda.harekrsna.cz/encyclopedia/caitanya.htm).

 

Few quotes from Shrila Prabhupada's conversations:

 

Guest (2) (Indian man): No, no. He is from that samprad€ya. [break] They

worship God as Swami N€r€yaŠa. My Lord is N€r€yaŠa. Swami means the Lord,

and N€r€yaŠa is the Lord. So they say always “Swami N€r€yaŠa, Swami

N€r€yaŠa.” Just like we chant Hare KŠa, Hare KŠa, they chant “Swami

N€r€yaŠa, Swami N€r€yaŠa, Swami N€r€yaŠa.” The Lord is N€r€yaŠa, God is

N€r€yaŠa, God is N€r€yaŠa. So Swami is N€r€yaŠa. You see, actually what did

he preach, “Our Swami is N€r€yaŠa.” So they have Swami N€r€yaŠa song.

Prabhup€da: That is M€y€v€da. That is M€y€v€da.

Guest (1): That is M€y€v€da, or whatever it may be.

Dr. Patel: Everything is M€y€v€da.

Guest (2): Oh, Lord is N€r€yaŠa.

Prabhup€da: As soon as we say, “Our Swami is N€r€yaŠa,” it is M€y€v€da.

Dr. Patel: It is not that. It is... What he says is not right.

Guest (1): No, that is, I understand. I have not...

Dr. Patel: You read all the magazines that I have read. He accepts...

[break]

Prabhup€da: ...Vivekananda has done: daridra-n€r€yaŠa. Here is “Swami

N€r€yaŠa.”

 

(Morning Walk -- March 24, 1974, Bombay)

 

Prabhup€da: Yes. You diverted. You brought Swami N€r€yaŠa. We don’t accept

Swami N€r€yaŠa as authority. We don’t accept that.

 

(Morning Walk -- April 4, 1974, Bombay)

 

Indian man (4): Some of our devotee goes to the other temple like Swami

N€r€yaŠa and they want to see the ladies there, so then they are taking

these instruction from them.

Prabhup€da: Our devotees go to Swami N€r€yaŠa?

Indian man (4): Yes, they go. Here our devotees, they went to Mombassa for,

after Lord Caitanya Mah€prabhu. When I was not there, all of them went to

Swami...

Prabhup€da: These things should be stopped. They leave their own temple and

go to Swami N€r€yaŠa temple? Stop.

Indian man (4): They likes their lunch. They goes for lunch. Yes, that’s

true. All of them went without asking me. About five, six devotees,

immediately from here went to Swami N€r€yaŠa.

Prabhup€da: So this should be rectified.

 

(Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi)

 

Prabhup€da: They create a cheap God. Real God they reject. That is going on.

Dr. Patel: Swami N€r€yaŠa said that (Sanskrit). Only to worship KŠa.

Nobody else. Unfortunately the disciples... Suppose disciples...

Prabhup€da: That the same thing. If the disciples are rascals, then what is

the guru?

 

(Morning Walk -- January 4, 1977, Bombay)

 

Dr. Patel: Swami N€r€yaŠa has mentioned this such,

kŠaƒ tad-avat€raƒ ca

jñeyaƒ tat-tattvam api ca

na tu j…van r™pa-dev€dya

bhakta brahma-vido ’pi ca (?)

Even the highest bhaktas, the br€hmaŠa-bhaktas, they should not be worshiped

more than KŠa, and He is also highest. But the followers, you know what

they are doing.

Prabhup€da: They are not followers. If they do not follow their guru, then

what kind of follower...?

 

(Roof Conversation -- January 5, 1977, Bombay)

 

 

I've added our Krsna Katha discussion group so there may be further

comments.

 

Hope this helps. More questions welcome.

 

Your servant, bh. Jan

 

www.veda.harekrsna.cz (Bhakti-yoga Vedic Encyclopedia Vedic Library)