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On 2 Jul 2002, Bhakti Vikasa Swami wrote:

 

 

> If the main point of the debate was whether in Vedic culture women have

> varna independent from their husbands, then there doesn't seem to be much

> more to discuss, as the fallacy of this position has been abundantly

> demonstrated.

 

 

Dear and respected Maharaja,

 

PAMHO. AGTSP. AGTYH.

 

My understanding is slightly different Maharaja. Please forgive me and

correct me if this understanding of mine is wrong. Let us take a few

examples. In this examples I am taking both VAD and DVAD as two established

systems. Normally the confusion arises, when they take both as one system

only.

 

1. Husband is brahmana and wife follows him she is brahmani.

2. If the husband falls down and becomes sudra, she continues to be faithful

to her husband, with out giving up her KC/brahminical activities, then she

continues to be a brahmani, as far as Krishna and Guru are concerned. However

the society may consider him to be still brahmana (seminal), or some may

consider both husband and wife as sudra as husband is fallen so wife also is

automatically cosidered fallen.

 

Another case.

 

1. Husband is sudra. Wife follows him faithfully and she is sudrani. 2.

However she comes across, Srila Prabhupada's books, devotee association and

soon she is elevated to Vaisnava diksa, but still she is faithfully following

husband, but now she is no more considered a Sudrani, but she is brahmani.

3. Sudra husband is fortunate and say he comes across Srila Prabhupada's

books, devotee association, and soon husband is elevated to vaisnava diksa,

but wife is still faithful to her husband as she was previously, never deserts

him, but does not take up KC. Then wife is still considered a sudrani inspite

of husband being a brahmana.

 

In all the above cases, the occupation of the respective varna of the

husband/wife may continue.

 

Now taking Daivi VAD, all are Vaisnavas, all are transcendental, but still all

of them are in various occupations, of brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya and sudra.

In such a scenario, externally by the VAD society they may be called as

brahmana, ksatriya etc,. But among Vaisnavas themselves, they are never

considered so, but they are simply considered as devotees of the Lord. For

the sake of outside people, they may considered as different professionals in

different occupations.

 

Your humble servant,

Bhadra Govinda Dasa.

[Guest guest]

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> > So my humble request is that the debate be allowed to continue.

>

> If the main point of the debate was whether in Vedic culture women have

> varna independent from their husbands, then there doesn't seem to be much

> more to discuss, as the fallacy of this position has been abundantly

> demonstrated.

>

 

Tuesday, July 02, 2002 2:19 AM

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> > So my humble request is that the debate be allowed to continue.

>

> If the main point of the debate was whether in Vedic culture women have

> varna independent from their husbands, then there doesn't seem to be much

> more to discuss, as the fallacy of this position has been abundantly

> demonstrated.

>

 

Perhaps. But that would be difficult for us to know when specific

individuals limit the public debate and take it private. I do not remember

any private or personal matters being discussed so still wonder why the

necessity of Mother Urmila to declare she was going to take the discussion

private with both Shyamasundara Prabhu and Jivanmukta Prabhu and Mother

Sita. To my knowledge there was no declaration of a conclusion so I am still

wondering if there is a discussion going on regarding these matters in

private. If they all want to limit readership, then there isn't much that

can be done since that would be their perogative. But it did seem that it

was done unilaterally.

 

If the discussion has indeed been terminated, my question is does Mother

Urmila now agree to your statement listed above? She did make the comment in

the outset that she didn't like to get into these type of debates because

everyone already has their mind made up. However, I was still impressed by

her skill of debate and many of her points and if she has more to make, I

personally would enjoy hearing them.

 

Respectfully,

 

Vyapaka dasa