krsna katha

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>Statements from the sastra that remind us that excessive attachment to

the

>opposite sex is a great potential source of infatuation and material

>bondage, however, are not out of order. Such statements are made by the

>Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishna Himself, out of compassion, and

are

>meant for our protection.

>

>Statements criticizing the character of women, or men for that matter,

do

>not appear to greatly benefit anyone, while they do appear to upset a

lot of

>people. I can be more attentive to eliminating them in the future and

>apologize for letting the last one squeeze by.

>

>One related point is that we can always try to use respectful language

when

>expressing disagreements with the opinions of others, who after all,

are

>Vaishnavas and thus are very dear to the Supreme Personality of

Godhead.

>

>I hope this helps.

 

Sadhu! Sadhu!

 

bhavatam sevepsu,

gkd

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>Brahmacarya does certainly not mean to avoid the company of the other

sex!

 

I humbly submit that brahmacarya certainly *does* mean "to avoid the

company of women," as exemplified by SBST's strict standards of

brahmacarya and sannyasa, and as we have learned from the teachings of

Srila Prabhupada.

 

bhavatam sevakanksi,

gkd

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Camp: Iskcon Krsna Balarama Mandir

DaNDavats Dear all. Jaya Krishna BalarAma!

Please accept my respectful obeisances. All Glories to Sreela PrabhupAda..

 

> >>Brahmacarya does certainly not mean to avoid the company of the other

> >>sex!

 

sorry mataji sastra does not agree with you. vairagya martanda does not

agree. and sridhar swami says.

 

smaranam, kirtanam, keli, preksanam, guhya bhasanam, sankalpo, adyavyasayas

ca kriya nivriti eva ca, etad astanam maitunam pravadanti manasah, etad

viparitam, brahmacaryam lakshanam iti.

 

Padma purana ganapati khandam.

 

it's there in the folio mataji.

 

"hearing, talking about, playing with, looking at, talking in a secluded

place, firm conviction,to make arrangements, and to do the improper act,

these are the 8 times of illicit sex which enter the mind and to do just the

opposite is called the qualities of brahmacarya"

 

as quoted in Matchless gift, too.

 

> >I humbly submit that brahmacarya certainly *does* mean "to avoid the

> >company of women," as exemplified by SBST's strict standards of

> >brahmacarya and sannyasa, and as we have learned from the teachings of

> >Srila Prabhupada.

> >gkd

 

he's a householder and he knows what he's talking about. orthodox

brahmacarya.

>

> What I learned from Prabhupada's teaching is it means to avoid having

> improper 'thoughts' about the opposite sex. Which is very easy when seeing

> female devotees as 'devotees too' who also want to give everything to

> serve Prabhupada and Iskcon, and another solution is to see female

> devotees as mothers. There are no weird thoughts about mothers, right? Is

> someone still has problems then, that's their own responsibility to sort

> that out.

 

Yes. Only by hearing and chanting about KRsna and having Love for KRsna can

only destroy lusty desires, and if one has that, then on will respect all

living entites.,

 

one can destroy it even in mixed company (which is 99.99% of everyone's only

choice.

 

one has to see women as helpless objects.

 

Kasyapa (married) says 6.18-19 39. ko tikravo.. svabhavam eva yositah, dhin

mam..yad aham ajitendriya.

she is not to be blamed it is her nature, (to seek revenge from Indra) but

I am to be blamed I could not control my senses (I allowed her to wrap me

arround her finger).

 

 

>Brahmacaries cannot blame women if they feel lusty or whatever.

> To own one's own spiritual weaknesses is the first step in spiritual

> advancement. Cause if you own it you can do something about it.

 

yes, mostly true, out of sight helps it so much!

 

If you

> blame a weakness on women, then you're merely passing on the bug. And it

> tends to come back at you in the short or long run anyways.

 

yes, but if you ever live without them, it's 100% easier.

 

karmana manasa vaca sarvavasasu sarvada, sarvada maithuna tyago brahmacaryam

pracaksate.

 

this is the verse about Brahmacarya. Although Mataji does have her strong

points, regarding a public mentality that renunciates *must* have in

regarding dealings with women,

 

yet on the other side of the coin as Guru KRsna HDG nicely shows there is a

lot of benefit Imperishably in the scrict orthodox settings, (albeit rare in

Kali yuga)

 

I've seen in a monastical situation, Such as Govardhana and Danavir Iskcon,

where there are *no* ladies allowed to live there, that there is a sea

change in sadhana, mentality, etc.

 

out of sight out of mind is there mataji, and it is effective in maintaining

a long lived Brahmacarya life.

 

of course out of 365 temples etc there are only 2 places in Iskcon

brahmacaries and sannyasi's can stay where women are not allowed to stay,

and sadly this accounts and adds to the agitation within Iskcon and the sad

state of our brahmacarya and sannyasa life.

 

so mataji both sides of the coin have strengths. you must admit.

 

I applaud your nice arguments mataji. I also mention like you say in my

Brahmacari seminar.

 

"you fellows will never make it if you hate women (objects) the object is

not to hated, our attachment in an improper way is to be rejected."

 

respectully submitted

 

aspiring for eternal service of Prabhupada's Krishna-BalarAma in Vrajadhama.

 

Vaishnava daasaanundaasaha,

 

TridaNDi BhikSu, Bhakti Visrambha MAdhava