Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 yes, one derives the benefits from Yoga asanas regardless of your beliefs. it's a science not something to believe or disbelieve. and any Name of God is still The Name of God. they are fooling only themselves, and if not careful they just may end up open minded. , Max Dashu <maxdashu wrote: > > And how is this different from Indian yoga??? > > >The difference, she says, lies in the intention: shifting the focus > >from self to God with yogic postures ("breathing in" the Holy Spirit, > >for instance), integrating health as critical to effective godly > >service, and slowing down enough "from our fast-paced lives to > >actually hear God's voice." > > -- > Max Dashu > Suppressed Histories Archives > Women in Global Perspective > http://www.suppressedhistories.net > ------------------------ Sponsor --------------------~--> Protect your PC from spy ware with award winning anti spy technology. It's free. http://us.click./97bhrC/LGxNAA/yQLSAA/XUWolB/TM --~-> <*> / <*> <*> Your Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 I find this article to be very disturbing. I took it as as a blatant disreguard to the ancient roots and culture of Yogic practices. I felt like writing a letter. I may, after I re-gain some perspective and composure. Mahita --- Max Dashu <maxdashu (AT) lmi (DOT) net> wrote: > And how is this different from Indian yoga??? > > >The difference, she says, lies in the intention: > shifting the focus > >from self to God with yogic postures ("breathing > in" the Holy Spirit, > >for instance), integrating health as critical to > effective godly > >service, and slowing down enough "from our > fast-paced lives to > >actually hear God's voice." > > -- > Max Dashu > Suppressed Histories Archives > Women in Global Perspective > http://www.suppressedhistories.net ------------------------ Sponsor --------------------~--> Everything you need is one click away. Make your home page now. http://us.click./AHchtC/4FxNAA/yQLSAA/XUWolB/TM --~-> <*> / <*> <*> Your Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Mataji, Why are you disturbed? Christians that think like this and engage in YOGA practices thinking that they can Christianize it are actually unwittingly drawing themselves into Sanatana Dharma! If they do like this, It must be God's will, as it will eventually be to the detriment of Christianity. Have no fear, as everyone knows the eternal roots of YOGA and from whence it came. Nothing can ever divorce YOGA from the HINDU religion. JANARDAN DAS Mahita Devi <mahita_devi > wrote: I find this article to be very disturbing. I took it as as a blatant disreguard to the ancient roots and culture of Yogic practices. I felt like writing a letter. I may, after I re-gain some perspective and composure. Mahita --- Max Dashu <maxdashu (AT) lmi (DOT) net> wrote: > And how is this different from Indian yoga??? > > >The difference, she says, lies in the intention: > shifting the focus > >from self to God with yogic postures ("breathing > in" the Holy Spirit, > >for instance), integrating health as critical to > effective godly > >service, and slowing down enough "from our > fast-paced lives to > >actually hear God's voice." > > -- > Max Dashu > Suppressed Histories Archives > Women in Global Perspective > http://www.suppressedhistories.net Shiva shakti Shakti Shakti gawain Devi Divine Visit your group "" on the web. Ring'em or ping'em. Make PC-to-phone calls as low as 1¢/min with Messenger with Voice. Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. ------------------------ Sponsor --------------------~--> Get to your groups with one click. Know instantly when new email arrives http://us.click./.7bhrC/MGxNAA/yQLSAA/XUWolB/TM --~-> <*> / <*> <*> Your Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 You are very wise. Thank you. Mahita --- Janardana Dasa <lightdweller > wrote: > Mataji, > > Why are you disturbed? Christians that think like > this and engage in YOGA practices thinking that they > can Christianize it are actually unwittingly drawing > themselves into Sanatana Dharma! > > > > > > Shiva shakti Shakti Shakti gawain > Devi Divine > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > To from this group, send an email > to: > > > Your use of is subject to the > > > > > > > > > > > Ring'em or ping'em. Make PC-to-phone calls as low > as 1¢/min with Messenger with Voice. > > > Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for > ridiculously low rates. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ------------------------ Sponsor --------------------~--> Get to your groups with one click. Know instantly when new email arrives http://us.click./.7bhrC/MGxNAA/yQLSAA/XUWolB/TM --~-> <*> / <*> <*> Your Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 God does not care about labels? Is "breathing in the Holy Spirit" any different from breathing in the Life giving "Prana"? For me, Hindu spirituality and Yoga are the vehicles thourgh which I seek union (YOGA) with the transcendental God. Christians use Christ as their vehicle. If someone needs to visualize Christ instead of Shakti or Shiva, in order to do Yoga, why should I be offended? what is important is that they are doing Yoga and relating it back to God in a form that they are comfortable with. At least that is better than "Yoga booty ballet" workout videos that reduce yoga to aerobic exercise for "firm behinds and toned abs." Hinduism and Yoga have taught me that God will come to any honest seeker in whatever form they need. I don't think destroying christianity is a valuable goal. How about the restoration of the commonalities that Christianity and Hinduism share? God has no religion. , Mahita Devi <mahita_devi wrote: > > You are very wise. Thank you. > > Mahita > > --- Janardana Dasa <lightdweller wrote: > > > Mataji, > > > > Why are you disturbed? Christians that think like > > this and engage in YOGA practices thinking that they > > can Christianize it are actually unwittingly drawing > > themselves into Sanatana Dharma! > > ------------------------ Sponsor --------------------~--> Protect your PC from spy ware with award winning anti spy technology. It's free. http://us.click./97bhrC/LGxNAA/yQLSAA/XUWolB/TM --~-> <*> / <*> <*> Your Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 , "Michael Denney" <thehealingdrum wrote: > > God does not care about labels? Is "breathing in the Holy Spirit" any different from breathing in the Life giving "Prana"? I am shure even even God uses two differnt labels for two different things. The "Holy Spirit" is defined by Christian theology as one part of their monotheistic religions idea of a triune God, composed of Jesus Christ the main God called the "Father" and the Holy spirit which is some sort of common divine agency, and accordingly this word denotes something that is completly different from the concept of Prana which simplified denotes shakti in the form of conscious life energy coursing in the bodies (Koshas). Mahahradantha ------------------------ Sponsor --------------------~--> You can search right from your browser? It's easy and it's free. See how. http://us.click./_7bhrC/NGxNAA/yQLSAA/XUWolB/TM --~-> <*> / <*> <*> Your Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 PRABHU, Respectfully, let me clarify. The destruction of Christianaity is not and should not be the goal, & relating to Christ while doing yoga is indeed SOMEWHAT valuable. But, this unwitting CHRISTIAN stance on YOGA can only be held so long, as the very nature of YOGA is HINDU based. Eventually being "detrimental" to Christianity means, a newer, more open and expansive consciousness to broaden the mind of the Christian masses, and sound the death knell of ABRAHAMIC intolerance. A more expansive theology other than the screed of the TELEVANGELIST & the superiority complex of the average Christian will then become evident in the future. Observe this same phenomenon in ISLAM: YOGA + ISLAM = SUFISM (i.e. ISLAM WITHA DEEPER UNDERSTANDING & GREATER TOLERATION TOWARDS OTHER RELIGIONS). SHAMBHAVI MUDRA; MATSYENDRA POSTURE, etc., etc., are INEXTRICABLY & INEXORABLY linked to HINDU RELIGION, or SANATAN DHARM. So Prabhu, while Your ideals are commendable, don't be fooled. Respectfully, you and others of your persuasion cannot do for long with yoga what you think you are doing; while TRYING to keep an essentially Christian based philosophy. That's like a NEW AGER having a SHIVA LINGAM and trying to put a New age spin on it, totally divorcing it from the worship of SHIVA; or like one worshiping SALAGRAM SILA and still thinking he is somehow not a VAISHNAVA. But you are indeed correct Prabhu, in that God cares little for labels, as they were created by man. But nevertheless, realistically, since we are in the world; labels we must deal with. JANARDAN DAS Michael Denney <thehealingdrum > wrote: God does not care about labels? Is "breathing in the Holy Spirit" any different from breathing in the Life giving "Prana"? For me, Hindu spirituality and Yoga are the vehicles thourgh which I seek union (YOGA) with the transcendental God. Christians use Christ as their vehicle. If someone needs to visualize Christ instead of Shakti or Shiva, in order to do Yoga, why should I be offended? what is important is that they are doing Yoga and relating it back to God in a form that they are comfortable with. At least that is better than "Yoga booty ballet" workout videos that reduce yoga to aerobic exercise for "firm behinds and toned abs." Hinduism and Yoga have taught me that God will come to any honest seeker in whatever form they need. I don't think destroying christianity is a valuable goal. How about the restoration of the commonalities that Christianity and Hinduism share? God has no religion. , Mahita Devi <mahita_devi wrote: > > You are very wise. Thank you. > > Mahita > > --- Janardana Dasa <lightdweller wrote: > > > Mataji, > > > > Why are you disturbed? Christians that think like > > this and engage in YOGA practices thinking that they > > can Christianize it are actually unwittingly drawing > > themselves into Sanatana Dharma! > > Shiva shakti Shakti Shakti gawain Devi Divine Visit your group "" on the web. Sneak preview the all-new .com. It's not radically different. Just radically better. ------------------------ Sponsor --------------------~--> Everything you need is one click away. Make your home page now. http://us.click./AHchtC/4FxNAA/yQLSAA/XUWolB/TM --~-> <*> / <*> <*> Your Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 >....to the >quintessentially Hindu worldview that lies at the heart of the >practice. >Yoga opens up new and >more refined states of mind, and to understand them one needs to >believe in and understand the Hindu way of looking at God. >Nothing can ever divorce YOGA from the HINDU religion. > > Dear All Yoga does already exist divorced from Hinduism since appx. 2500 years.you just didn´t notice. Since appx 500 years before Christ, Buddhism was founded. One of the main sources of Buddhism is Samkhya and Yoga Philosophy and Practice. Even if one considers Buddha as an Avatara of Vishnu, Buddhism is still a distinct Religion from Hinduism. Since ages there has been not only buddhist yoga, but Sikh Yoga, Jaina Yoga, even Chinese taoist yoga inspired by chinese Budhism, and we should not forget all the Sufi Pirs, they do all practice varieties of yoga. Some esoteric tantric buddhist Traditions, for instance tibetan Vajrayana and the indian buddhist Mahasiddha Tradition, are completlyand entirely based on Yoga Practices. In fact nowadays very important tantric Yoga doctrines and practices that i believe are lost in Hinduism,(at least i could only find traces of them) are transmitted entirely outside of the Hindu Fold, in the Vajrayana, Mahacinacara and taoist Yoga traditions. Mahahradantha ------------------------ Sponsor --------------------~--> Get to your groups with one click. Know instantly when new email arrives http://us.click./.7bhrC/MGxNAA/yQLSAA/XUWolB/TM --~-> <*> / <*> <*> Your Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Point well taken. Although recognizing that those other systems exist, as i said before: NOTHING CAN DIVORCE YOGA FROM THE HINDU RELIGION. It comes from Hinduism, and is the heart and soul of HINDUISM. JANARDANA DASA mahahradanatha <mahahradanatha > wrote: >....to the >quintessentially Hindu worldview that lies at the heart of the >practice. >Yoga opens up new and >more refined states of mind, and to understand them one needs to >believe in and understand the Hindu way of looking at God. >Nothing can ever divorce YOGA from the HINDU religion. > > Dear All Yoga does already exist divorced from Hinduism since appx. 2500 years.you just didn´t notice. Since appx 500 years before Christ, Buddhism was founded. One of the main sources of Buddhism is Samkhya and Yoga Philosophy and Practice. Even if one considers Buddha as an Avatara of Vishnu, Buddhism is still a distinct Religion from Hinduism. Since ages there has been not only buddhist yoga, but Sikh Yoga, Jaina Yoga, even Chinese taoist yoga inspired by chinese Budhism, and we should not forget all the Sufi Pirs, they do all practice varieties of yoga. Some esoteric tantric buddhist Traditions, for instance tibetan Vajrayana and the indian buddhist Mahasiddha Tradition, are completlyand entirely based on Yoga Practices. In fact nowadays very important tantric Yoga doctrines and practices that i believe are lost in Hinduism,(at least i could only find traces of them) are transmitted entirely outside of the Hindu Fold, in the Vajrayana, Mahacinacara and taoist Yoga traditions. Mahahradantha Shiva shakti Shakti Shakti gawain Devi Divine Visit your group "" on the web. Ring'em or ping'em. Make PC-to-phone calls as low as 1¢/min with Messenger with Voice. ------------------------ Sponsor --------------------~--> Everything you need is one click away. Make your home page now. http://us.click./AHchtC/4FxNAA/yQLSAA/XUWolB/TM --~-> <*> / <*> <*> Your Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 I think then i must have misunderstood you. I do also believe that Hinduism is linked deeply with Yoga. But this is true of other Religions also. But not all of Hindus are of this opinion, a considerable and influential part of (mainstream) Hinduism, for instance most of the Teachers of Smarta Sampradaya would consider important Yogi Traditions like Nath, Pashupata, Kapalika, Kalamukha, as avedic adharmic, nastika darshanas outside of Hinduism and all that belong to these Traditions as Non Hindus. Considering the point of view of the orthodox majority of Hinduism, a major part of Yogis exist and existed not in the heart but rather on the objectionable "impure" fringe of Hinduism. Maybe Yoga is older than that Religion we call Hinduism reaching far beyond known history and archeological evidence. There have been Yoga postures depicted on copperware of the chinese shang dynasty dated 1677 bc and there is also archeological Evidence from the later Harrapean phase also dated somewhere around 2000 bc showing yoga postures. Mahahradantha , Janardana Dasa <lightdweller wrote: > > Point well taken. Although recognizing that those other systems exist, as i said before: NOTHING CAN DIVORCE YOGA FROM THE HINDU RELIGION. It comes from Hinduism, and is the heart and soul of HINDUISM. > > JANARDANA DASA > > mahahradanatha <mahahradanatha wrote: > >....to the > >quintessentially Hindu worldview that lies at the heart of the > >practice. > > > >Yoga opens up new and > >more refined states of mind, and to understand them one needs to > >believe in and understand the Hindu way of looking at God. > > >Nothing can ever divorce YOGA from the HINDU religion. > > > > > > Dear All > Yoga does already exist divorced from Hinduism since appx. 2500 > years.you just didn´t notice. > Since appx 500 years before Christ, Buddhism was founded. One of the > main sources of Buddhism is Samkhya and Yoga Philosophy and Practice. > Even if one considers Buddha as an Avatara of Vishnu, Buddhism is > still a distinct Religion from Hinduism. > Since ages there has been not only buddhist yoga, but Sikh Yoga, > Jaina Yoga, even Chinese taoist yoga inspired by chinese Budhism, > and we should not forget all the Sufi Pirs, they do all practice > varieties of yoga. Some esoteric tantric buddhist Traditions, for > instance tibetan Vajrayana and the indian buddhist Mahasiddha > Tradition, are completlyand entirely based on Yoga Practices. > In fact nowadays very important tantric Yoga doctrines and practices > that i believe are lost in Hinduism,(at least i could only find > traces of them) are transmitted entirely outside of the Hindu Fold, > in the Vajrayana, Mahacinacara and taoist Yoga traditions. > Mahahradantha > > > > > > > > Shiva shakti Shakti Shakti gawain Devi Divine > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > Ring'em or ping'em. Make PC-to-phone calls as low as 1¢/min with Messenger with Voice. > > > ------------------------ Sponsor --------------------~--> You can search right from your browser? It's easy and it's free. See how. http://us.click./_7bhrC/NGxNAA/yQLSAA/XUWolB/TM --~-> <*> / <*> <*> Your Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 I totally agree with you. When we started this thread though, I thought we were refering particularly to the NON-ESOTERIC MAINSTREAM PRACTICES OF HATHA YOGA, which are mostly seen in the WEST & mostly common to all in INDIA. But I feel you 100% about SMARTAS and their views and such. JANARDAN DAS mahahradanatha <mahahradanatha > wrote: I think then i must have misunderstood you. I do also believe that Hinduism is linked deeply with Yoga. But this is true of other Religions also. But not all of Hindus are of this opinion, a considerable and influential part of (mainstream) Hinduism, for instance most of the Teachers of Smarta Sampradaya would consider important Yogi Traditions like Nath, Pashupata, Kapalika, Kalamukha, as avedic adharmic, nastika darshanas outside of Hinduism and all that belong to these Traditions as Non Hindus. Considering the point of view of the orthodox majority of Hinduism, a major part of Yogis exist and existed not in the heart but rather on the objectionable "impure" fringe of Hinduism. Maybe Yoga is older than that Religion we call Hinduism reaching far beyond known history and archeological evidence. There have been Yoga postures depicted on copperware of the chinese shang dynasty dated 1677 bc and there is also archeological Evidence from the later Harrapean phase also dated somewhere around 2000 bc showing yoga postures. Mahahradantha , Janardana Dasa <lightdweller wrote: > > Point well taken. Although recognizing that those other systems exist, as i said before: NOTHING CAN DIVORCE YOGA FROM THE HINDU RELIGION. It comes from Hinduism, and is the heart and soul of HINDUISM. > > JANARDANA DASA > > mahahradanatha <mahahradanatha wrote: > >....to the > >quintessentially Hindu worldview that lies at the heart of the > >practice. > > > >Yoga opens up new and > >more refined states of mind, and to understand them one needs to > >believe in and understand the Hindu way of looking at God. > > >Nothing can ever divorce YOGA from the HINDU religion. > > > > > > Dear All > Yoga does already exist divorced from Hinduism since appx. 2500 > years.you just didn´t notice. > Since appx 500 years before Christ, Buddhism was founded. One of the > main sources of Buddhism is Samkhya and Yoga Philosophy and Practice. > Even if one considers Buddha as an Avatara of Vishnu, Buddhism is > still a distinct Religion from Hinduism. > Since ages there has been not only buddhist yoga, but Sikh Yoga, > Jaina Yoga, even Chinese taoist yoga inspired by chinese Budhism, > and we should not forget all the Sufi Pirs, they do all practice > varieties of yoga. Some esoteric tantric buddhist Traditions, for > instance tibetan Vajrayana and the indian buddhist Mahasiddha > Tradition, are completlyand entirely based on Yoga Practices. > In fact nowadays very important tantric Yoga doctrines and practices > that i believe are lost in Hinduism,(at least i could only find > traces of them) are transmitted entirely outside of the Hindu Fold, > in the Vajrayana, Mahacinacara and taoist Yoga traditions. > Mahahradantha > > > > > > > > Shiva shakti Shakti Shakti gawain Devi Divine > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > Ring'em or ping'em. Make PC-to-phone calls as low as 1¢/min with Messenger with Voice. > > > Shiva shakti Shakti Shakti gawain Devi Divine Visit your group "" on the web. Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. ------------------------ Sponsor --------------------~--> Get to your groups with one click. Know instantly when new email arrives http://us.click./.7bhrC/MGxNAA/yQLSAA/XUWolB/TM --~-> <*> / <*> <*> Your Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 *** Yoga does already exist divorced from Hinduism since appx. 2500 years. you just didn´t notice. Since appx 500 years before Christ, Buddhism was founded. *** If I my interject, this too is all a matter of labels; a distinction without a difference. The following excerpt from Narendra Nath Bhattacharyya's 1974 essay on the development of modern Hinduism, entitled "The Formative Period, c. 600 BC- AD 300," sets out the fact that these "-ism" labels have been mainly applied by outsiders -- scholars, historians, ethnographers, etc. Below I've excerpted just a few key paragraphs from NNB's lengthy analysis to support my assertion. Arguments, examples and specific details may be found in abundance by referring to the original: ********** "The popular view that Buddhism or Jainism -- as well as the later monotheistic creeds such as Vaisnavism, Saivism and others -- were in constant conflict with the adherents of the 'orthodox Brahmanical religion' (itself a misnomer) is fallacious. There was no such Brahmanical religion in Indian history, though there is no dearth of Brahmanical influence on most religious systems [that arose in India], including Buddhism and Jainism. In fact, the renowned Buddhist and Jain teachers and theoreticians were mostly Brahamnas and they [influenced] these systems' orientation through the process of Sanskritization. ... "The Buddha and Lord Mahavira did not found any new religion. They set forth a way of life based on ethical principles. Although their teachings later assumed a religious character, their original purpose was different. [...] Though they had some functional differences with the Vedic systems and their sectarian offshoots -- which subsequently came to be known as Hinduism -- from the viewpoint of religio- philosophical terms and concepts, the basic similarity underying all these systems cannot be overlooked or ignored. "[...] Hitherto in the studies on Indian religion the so-called differences between various systems has been overemphasized by most scholars, and their basic unity ignored. "It is wrongly said that Buddhism and Jainism are anti-Vedic systems. The evidence of the Buddhist and Jain texts suggests that both the Buddha and Lord Mahavira did not consider Sruti or the Vedas as the only source of valid knowledge. [but] the Buddha did not reject the Vedic gods. Surprisingly enough, all the Rgvedic nature-gods have a place of honor in Buddhism. Even the legends pertaining to them occur in Buddhist mythology. Just as in the later Samhitas and Brahmanas the Rgvedic gods were subordinated to the ritualistic principle called yajna and in the Upanisads to the idealistic principle called Brahman, so also in the Buddhist texts the Rgvedic gods were subordinated to the Buddha. [...] "So the post-Vedic [period's] thought-ferment -- whether of the so- called non-Brahmanical heterodoxy, or of the so-called Brahmanical orthodoxy -- yielded the same or similar ethical principles of universal application that formed the substrata of the functional aspects of all the subsequent sects and cults [within Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, and others]." ------------------------ Sponsor --------------------~--> You can search right from your browser? It's easy and it's free. See how. http://us.click./_7bhrC/NGxNAA/yQLSAA/XUWolB/TM --~-> <*> / <*> <*> Your Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 On this topic ... I had a nice chat with another member yesterday. Thought some of you might enjoy: ********** DB: I looked it up that christian yoga book at amazon.com and found this review: "I am a God-fearing, patriotic, white American Christian who is not afraid of expanding my horizons with a little ethnic now and then. I even accompanied my wife to a few of her yoga classes, thinking it might do my stiff back some good. While yoga did do wonders for my back, when the instructor began talking about chakras, meditation and enlightenment, I knew I had to get out of there before I began worshipping elephants and two-headed gods. I missed the relaxation, calm, and overall sense of greater healthfulness yoga gave me, but I was not about to let the temptations of mere physical and mental well-being lead me down the dark path and away from the One and True God. My wife thought my apprehension about the potential evil of these weird, Eastern ways was silly and that I should resume yoga. I love my wife dearly, and she is as good a helpmeet as a man could wish for, but I could not expect her to see the potential harm of practicing heathen rituals. I was talking with my local pastor about the spiritual dangers of yoga when he informed me that a Christian yoga movement was on the rise and that I should check it out. I went on the web, found "Yoga for Christians" by Susan Bordenkircher, and decided to give it a try. This book not only has descriptive photographs for each of the positions and exercises, it also comes with an instructional DVD. More important, however, is the Christian focus of the book. Ms. Bordenkircher hits all the right notes, reminding us that our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, that we honor God with our bodies, and that everything we do and say must be as a representative of the Lord Jesus. So how does Bordenkircher reconcile the pagan practice of yoga with the greater glory of God? "So to forego the healing benefits of yoga because it is sometimes practiced within a different belief system is like telling God that He is not big enough to take something from the dark and bring it into the light." To Christians who fear that the yoga postures themselves constitute a form of pagan worship, Bordenkircher answers, "when you have a Christ-centered intent to your practice, how could holding that God-given vessel [our bodies] in any particular position be used for evil because of what another faith has named it?" She goes on to recount how many of our sacred hymns were adapted from popular bar songs and how rock and roll, the very embodiment of secular hedonism, has been co-opted into the service of the Lord by Christian rockers. Seen in this Christ- centered light, I realized I could not only enjoy the health benefits of yoga, but actually bring myself closer to God at the same time. Who would have thought that a pagan practice developed by Eastern heathens predating Christ by over a thousand years was actually a tool for the eventual glory of Christ the Lord? God does indeed work in mysterious ways." (end ) DB: So there! put that in your pipe and smoke it! *lol* Member: God does indeed work in mysterious ways ... and apparently She has a sense of humor! DB: Doesn't She, though! I must be pretty isolated from reality. To me, that stuff sounds like a comedian's mocking impression of a right-wing Christian. Almost hard to believe it's the real thing! Member: Oh, you're very close to the reality. DB: He is a good writer, though. Amazingly closed-minded ideas eloquently expressed. What a creepy effect. Member: It was a well-written article, but the ideas are wild. I'm with is wife. Silly. And I think he's missing the forest for the trees with his objections. DB: I think the whole "Yoga for Christians" book is missing the forest for the trees. Member: Actually, the Christian yoga thing did surprise me. But then, they have dieting for Christ too, so....whatever. *lol* DB: But [the reviewer] seems to have a pretty good handle on where the "Yoga For Christians" author is coming from! He's her target audience! Member: But these body-related Christian movements are on really marshy theological grounds. Christianity makes a big issue over the division between the creator and the created -- the divine and the not-divine. Body-oriented devotions blur the distinction (or don't recognize it.) DB: In my opinion there is no initial contradiction between practicing yoga and Christianity. Jesus works as well as any other deity ... but that, of course, precisely the issue. What the author seems to be saying is that she objects to yoga placing god in the individual. She seems to want to put god "out there" again. But once you put god "out there" it's not yoga anymore – it's calisthenics! Member: Exactly! Member: To be theologically correct – Christian yoga can't be yoga anymore DB: Right, the very name "yoga" suggests an identity and connection between divine and non-divine that Christianity says is not there. The problem is – and the Roman Catholic Church's objection to yoga recognizes this – is that once you get into the experiential aspects of yoga, whatever neatly designed "Christian" mental framework you approached the practice with isn't going to hold back the floodwaters. Member: Well, *we* have it all figured out *lol* Anyway, I think worrying about sudden attractions to elephant-headed idols is silly. DB: "the spiritual dangers of yoga"! Member: That part just cracks me up. DB: But isn't he right? isn't that part of the objection? At my old law office, I used to meditate before court appearances to get calm and centered and focused … Member: I would imagine! DB: … and one day my secretary asked what the hell I was doing. And when I told her, she said "Oh you shouldn't meditate; it's dangerous." I asked her why and she said her priest (she's Catholic) had told the congregation that it was a bad idea. Basically, the idea seems to be that Eastern religions are the abode of demons – elephant men and two-headed monsters, as our reviewer friend noted. You empty your mind and they all come flooding in. That is what I understood by the reviewer's elephant reference. Member: I think you interpreted the elephant reference better than I did. You're right. There is always that Christian worry about the devil just lurking everywhere, waiting to pounce on a quiet mind. Or maybe on some poor fool doing yoga. ;-) (finis) DB , Janardana Dasa <lightdweller wrote: > > I totally agree with you. When we started this thread though, I thought we were refering particularly to the NON-ESOTERIC MAINSTREAM PRACTICES OF HATHA YOGA, which are mostly seen in the WEST & mostly common to all in INDIA. But I feel you 100% about SMARTAS and their views and such. ------------------------ Sponsor --------------------~--> Protect your PC from spy ware with award winning anti spy technology. It's free. http://us.click./97bhrC/LGxNAA/yQLSAA/XUWolB/TM --~-> <*> / <*> <*> Your Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Now this was a great discussion.. I had to read is completely, something that I do rarely being a lazy A$$. Thanks once again posting it.. I had a good time reading it.. Regards Dp , "Devi Bhakta" <devi_bhakta wrote: > > On this topic ... I had a nice chat with another member yesterday. > Thought some of you might enjoy: > > ********** > > DB: I looked it up that christian yoga book at amazon.com and found > this review: > > "I am a God-fearing, patriotic, white American Christian who is not > afraid of expanding my horizons with a little ethnic now and then. I > even accompanied my wife to a few of her yoga classes, thinking it > might do my stiff back some good. While yoga did do wonders for my > back, when the instructor began talking about chakras, meditation > and enlightenment, I knew I had to get out of there before I began > worshipping elephants and two-headed gods. I missed the relaxation, > calm, and overall sense of greater healthfulness yoga gave me, but I > was not about to let the temptations of mere physical and mental > well-being lead me down the dark path and away from the One and True > God. My wife thought my apprehension about the potential evil of > these weird, Eastern ways was silly and that I should resume yoga. I > love my wife dearly, and she is as good a helpmeet as a man could > wish for, but I could not expect her to see the potential harm of > practicing heathen rituals. I was talking with my local pastor about > the spiritual dangers of yoga when he informed me that a Christian > yoga movement was on the rise and that I should check it out. I went > on the web, found "Yoga for Christians" by Susan Bordenkircher, and > decided to give it a try. This book not only has descriptive > photographs for each of the positions and exercises, it also comes > with an instructional DVD. More important, however, is the Christian > focus of the book. Ms. Bordenkircher hits all the right notes, > reminding us that our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, that we > honor God with our bodies, and that everything we do and say must be > as a representative of the Lord Jesus. So how does Bordenkircher > reconcile the pagan practice of yoga with the greater glory of > God? "So to forego the healing benefits of yoga because it is > sometimes practiced within a different belief system is like telling > God that He is not big enough to take something from the dark and > bring it into the light." To Christians who fear that the yoga > postures themselves constitute a form of pagan worship, > Bordenkircher answers, "when you have a Christ-centered intent to > your practice, how could holding that God-given vessel [our bodies] > in any particular position be used for evil because of what another > faith has named it?" She goes on to recount how many of our sacred > hymns were adapted from popular bar songs and how rock and roll, the > very embodiment of secular hedonism, has been co-opted into the > service of the Lord by Christian rockers. Seen in this Christ- > centered light, I realized I could not only enjoy the health > benefits of yoga, but actually bring myself closer to God at the > same time. Who would have thought that a pagan practice developed by > Eastern heathens predating Christ by over a thousand years was > actually a tool for the eventual glory of Christ the Lord? God does > indeed work in mysterious ways." > > (end ) > > DB: So there! put that in your pipe and smoke it! *lol* > > Member: God does indeed work in mysterious ways ... and apparently > She has a sense of humor! > > DB: Doesn't She, though! I must be pretty isolated from reality. To > me, that stuff sounds like a comedian's mocking impression of a > right-wing Christian. Almost hard to believe it's the real thing! > > Member: Oh, you're very close to the reality. > > DB: He is a good writer, though. Amazingly closed-minded ideas > eloquently expressed. What a creepy effect. > > Member: It was a well-written article, but the ideas are wild. I'm > with is wife. Silly. And I think he's missing the forest for the > trees with his objections. > > DB: I think the whole "Yoga for Christians" book is missing the > forest for the trees. > > Member: Actually, the Christian yoga thing did surprise me. But > then, they have dieting for Christ too, so....whatever. *lol* > > DB: But [the reviewer] seems to have a pretty good handle on where > the "Yoga For Christians" author is coming from! He's her target > audience! > > Member: But these body-related Christian movements are on really > marshy theological grounds. Christianity makes a big issue over the > division between the creator and the created -- the divine and the > not-divine. Body-oriented devotions blur the distinction (or don't > recognize it.) > > DB: In my opinion there is no initial contradiction between > practicing yoga and Christianity. Jesus works as well as any other > deity ... but that, of course, precisely the issue. He can't > be "just another deity"; Exclusivity Doctrine, remember? ;-) Also > this is "yoga" as un-yoking! What the author seems to be saying is > that she objects to yoga placing god in the individual. She seems to > want to put god "out there" again; that's the opposite of what yoga > is for! Once you put god "out there" it's not yoga anymore – it's > calisthenics! > > Member: Exactly! > > Member: To be theologically correct – Christian yoga can't be yoga > anymore > > DB: Right, the very name "yoga" suggests an identity and connection > between divine and non-divine that Christianity says is not there. > The problem is – and the Roman Catholic Church's objection to yoga > recognizes this – is that once you get into the experiential aspects > of yoga, whatever neatly designed "Christian" mental framework you > approached the practice with isn't going to hold back the > floodwaters. > > [Quoth Swami Arugamaswami: "Yoga opens up new and more refined > states of mind, and to understand them one needs to believe in and > understand the Hindu way of looking at God. ... A Christian trying > to adapt these practices will likely disrupt their own Christian > beliefs."] > > Member: Well, *we* have it all figured out *lol* Anyway, I think > worrying about sudden attractions to elephant-headed idols is silly. > > DB: "the spiritual dangers of yoga"! > > Member: That part just cracks me up. > > DB: But isn't he right? isn't that part of the objection? At my old > law office, I used to meditate before court appearances to get calm > and centered and focused … > > Member: I would imagine! > > DB: … and one day my secretary asked what the hell I was doing. And > when I told her, she said "Oh you shouldn't meditate; it's > dangerous." I asked her why and she said her priest (she's Catholic) > had told the congregation that it was a bad idea. Basically, the > idea seems to be that Eastern religions are the abode of demons – > elephant men and two-headed monsters, as our reviewer friend noted. > You empty your mind and they all come flooding in. That is what I > understood by the reviewer's elephant reference. > > Member: I think you interpreted the elephant reference better than I > did. You're right. There is always that Christian worry about the > devil just lurking everywhere, waiting to pounce on a quiet mind. Or > maybe on some poor fool doing yoga. ;-) > > (finis) > > DB > > > , Janardana Dasa > <lightdweller@> wrote: > > > > I totally agree with you. When we started this thread though, I > thought we were refering particularly to the NON-ESOTERIC MAINSTREAM > PRACTICES OF HATHA YOGA, which are mostly seen in the WEST & mostly > common to all in INDIA. But I feel you 100% about SMARTAS and their > views and such. > -- Thanks Dp [The force is feminine in nature] ------------------------ Sponsor --------------------~--> Get to your groups with one click. 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Guest guest Posted May 20, 2006 Report Share Posted May 20, 2006 , Janardana Dasa <lightdweller wrote: > > I totally agree with you. When we started this thread though, I thought we were refering particularly to the NON-ESOTERIC MAINSTREAM PRACTICES OF HATHA YOGA, which are mostly seen in the WEST & mostly common to all in INDIA. But I feel you 100% about SMARTAS and their views and such. > > JANARDAN DAS I think we both agree that to fully gain the benefit of Yoga one should practice both the physical asanas and the spritual aspects of Yoga. Christianity is in my opinion very different from Hinduism. I leave the decision if Christians can benefit from yoga or not to the Christians, my only hope is that they do use Yoga to enhance their path (which i doubt) and not use Yoga to denigrate other paths. (which i suppose is their intent) Maharadanatha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 That was a every old thread.. interesting that you are going through all of them... On 7/10/06, Erotic Ethel <retroprecursor > wrote: > > But if this man sees his body as a temple of the Holy Spirit, he > believes that God dwells within him, and if this is true, the > seperation between spirit and mankind becomes very blurred - and also > unknowingly, would he be practicing something similiar to Indian Yoga? > He has tried to deny it and yet practiced it dutifully in his own > (albeit fearful and narrow-minded) way. > > Some people consider the Holy Spirit to be the Shakti of > Christianity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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