When does a change in tradition create an apa-sampradaya?

Kulapavana · May 19, 2006

Any comments or quotes on this issue?

May 19, 2006

Actually Prabhupada instituted a number of huge breaks from tradition in our sampradaya, as did Bhaktisiddhanta. Bhaktisiddhanta is criticized by other gaudiya's for:

1) awarding himself sannyasa in front of a picture

2) giving sannyasa to his disciples, instead of babaji initiation

3) initiating non-brahmanas (by caste) as brahmanas with gayatri mantra, something there is no precedent in the Gaudiya line (or perhaps any line).

Some of the major changes Prabhupada did, breaking all traditions:

1) As a sannyasi he crossed the ocean, which is forbidden in scripture

2) As a sannyasi he performed marriage ceremonies for his disciples, something never done in the history.

3) He gave gayatri initiation to women, something never done by any acharya in any sampradaya

4) gave initiation by letter, something never done before

5) gave gayatri initiation by tape recording, again something never done before

6) appointed ritvik priests to initiate on his behalf while living, something no acharya has done

The list can go on and on. Prabhupada has broken from many traditions, thus this argument is not valid nor logical. If one wants to hold on to such a belief, then Prabhupada must be rejected for any one of the above changes he has instituted.

some Gaudiyas rejected both Gaudiya Matha and Iskcon as apa-sampradayas precisely for such breaks with tradition.

what would it take for you?

for example, I consider ritvikism to be apa-sampradaya, for reasons I presented in another thread.

krsna · May 19, 2006

"There are four Vaisnava sampradayas (systems) of disciplic succession. One sampradaya comes from Lord Brahma, one from the goddess of fortune, one from the Kumaras, headed by Sanat-kumara, and one from Lord Siva. These four systems of disciplic succession are still going on. As King Prthu has illustrated, one who is serious about receiving transcendental Vedic knowledge must accept a guru, or spiritual master, in one of these four disciplic successions. It is said that unless one accepts a mantra from one of these sampradayas, the so-called mantra will not act in Kali-yuga. Many sampradayas have sprung up without authority, and they are misleading the people by giving unauthorized mantras. The rascals of these so-called sampradayas do not observe the Vedic rules and regulations. Although they are addicted to all kinds of sinful activities, they still offer the people mantras and thus mislead them. Intelligent persons, however, know that such mantras will never be successful, and as such they never patronize such upstart spiritual groups. People should be very careful of these nonsensical sampradayas. To get some facility for sense gratification, unfortunate people in this age receive mantras from these so-called sampradayas."

Srimad-Bhagavatam 4:17:5 Purport

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"In the parampara system, the instructions taken from the bona fide spiritual master must also be based on revealed Vedic scriptures. One who is in the line of disciplic succession cannot manufacture his own way of behavior. There are many so-called followers of the Vaisnava cult in the line of Caitanya Mahaprabhu who do not scrupulously follow the conclusions of the sastras, and therefore they are considered to be apa-sampradaya, which means "outside of the sampradaya." Some of these groups are known as aula, baula, kartabhaja, neda, daravesa, sani sahajiya, sakhibheki, smarta, jata-gosani, ativadi, cudadhari and gauranga-nagari. In order to follow strictly the disciplic succession of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu, one should not associate with these apasampradaya communities."

Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi lila 7:48

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"Such transcendental relationships with the Supreme Lord cannot be manufactured by the mental concoctions of pseudo-devotees. In Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu (1.2.101) Rupa Gosvami has stated that devotional service that makes no reference to Vedic scriptures or Vedic literatures and that does not follow the principles set forth therein can never be approved. Sri Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja has also remarked that professional spiritual masters, professional Bhagavatam reciters, professional kirtana performers and those engaged in self-concocted devotional service cannot be accepted. In India there are various professional communities known as Aula, Baula, Kartabhaja, Neda Daravesa, Sani, Atibadi, Cudadhari, and Gauranganagari. A member of the Ventor Gosvami Society, or the caste called gosvami, cannot be accepted as a descendant of the six original Gosvamis. Nor can so-called devotees who manufacture songs about Lord Caitanya, nor those who are professional priests or paid reciters, be accepted. One who does not follow the principles of pancaratra, or one who is an impersonalist or addicted to sex life, cannot be compared with those who have dedicated their lives to the service of Krsna. A pure devotee who is always engaged in Krsna consciousness can sacrifice everything for the service of the Lord. One who has dedicated his life to the service of Lord Caitanya, Krsna and the spiritual master, or a person who is following the principles of householder life, as well as one following the principles of the renounced life in the order of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, is a devotee and cannot be compared to professional men."

Teachings of Lord Caitanya, Chapter 29

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"

Yata mat tata patha

: "I can manufacture my own way." This rascaldom has been condemned by Srila Rupa Gosvami. He says that harer bhaktih... You will find many so-called bhaktas crying, falling down on the ground. But immediately after, he is smoking bidi. So why this is going on? Because they do not follow the injunction of Srila Rupa Gosvami. Chanting, dancing very loudly, and after the performance is finished--I have seen it--"Can you give me a bidi?" You see? "My throat is now dried up." So this is utpata. Srila Rupa Gosvami has described this kind of so-called devotional attitude is simply disturbance. They imitate. Imitate. Therefore Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura has condemned. There are so many apa-sampradaya going on in the name of Caitanya Mahaprabhu's devotee. Who are they? Aula, baula, karttabhaja, neda, daravesa, sani, sahajiya, sakhibheki, smarta, jata-gosani. Then ativadi, cudadhari, gauranga-nagari,

tota kahe ei tara sanga nahi kori

: Tota Babaji, he says, "I do not associate with these classes of men." So after disappearance of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, so many apa-sampradaya sprang up. So we should be very much careful that... Sampradaya means who are carefully following the Vedic principle."

Srila Prabhupada Lecture on Caitanya-caritamrta, 03-27-75, Mayapur

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"In this way there was, Caitanya's Mahaprabhu's time, this Krsna consciousness movement was going nicely, very. And after Him, there was six Gosvamis. They also managed. Then, as it is the rule of this material world that you start something very good but in due course of time the things deteriorate, so this Vaisnava, Krsna consciousness movement, also deteriorated in due course of time. Say, after the disappearance of the Gosvamins, about 250 years after, the things became most ridiculous. The so-called devotees... Their representatives still are continuing. They are called prakrta-sahajiya. Prakrta-sahajiya means taking things very easily. They thought that Radha-Krsna is just like a boy and girl's lusty affairs. And in this way they took it that sex life as religion. Even Vivekananda, he also criticized, "Vaisnavism is sex religion." So the things deteriorated in such a way..."

Srila Prabhupada Lecture, 02-07-69, Los Angeles

Bhaktivedanta Book Trust. HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada.

krsna · May 19, 2006

Ativadi Apa-sampradaya

by

Sripada Swami B. G. Narasingha

Krsna Talk No. 32

Devotee: Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura has written that there were thirteen apa-sampradayas that developed after the time of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

aula, baula, kartabhaja, neda. daravesa, sani

sahajiya, sakhibeki, smarta, jata-gosani

ativadi, cudadhari, gauranga-nagari

tato kahe, ei terara sanga nahi kari

One of these apa-sampradayas is called ativadi, which means too great. Can you please explain how those who are ‘too great’ have become an apa-sampradaya?

Narasingha Maharaja: If the quality of humility is the crest-jewel of the Vaisnavas, and indeed it is, then undeniably its antithesis is pride. If one is falsely proud due to his greatness, or falsely proud due to his scholarship then one becomes an ativadi, too great.

To chant the Holy Name without offense, one must first become free from dambhika, or pride. A dambhika-brahmana is one who is proud of his scholarship and thus becomes offensive to the humble Vaisnavas. A true Vaisnava is always meek and humble. He sees every living entity as constitutionally a servant of Krsna and he never mistreats others, or looks upon them as his inferior.

In the words of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, “One who thinks he is the highest is actually the lowest and one who thinks himself the lowest is actually the highest.”

Real humility can only be attained by strictly adhering to the instructions of Sri Guru and by preaching the glories of the Holy Name. However, a hypocrite in the guise of a Vaisnava (kapota-vaisnava) sometimes makes a show of his learning simply to attain cheap adoration and followers. Such persons are known as ativadi, too great.

The first pseudo sect of Vaisnavas to be known as Ativadi was founded by one Oriyan brahmana named Jagannatha Dasa. This Jagannatha Dasa lived during the time of Sri Caitanya. Jagannatha Dasa came from a tradition of professional Bhagavatam reciters and due to his sweet voice he attracted many followers. Jagannatha Dasa claimed to be a disciple of Srila Haridasa Thakura, but he later broke his connection with Haridasa and began to preach his own concocted philosophy.

Initially Jagannatha Dasa resided in an asrama donated to him by Maharaja Prataparudra, but after his rejection of Thakura Haridasa the king took the property back and Jagannatha Dasa and his followers founded their own matha called the Sat-lahiri Mandira. This story has been narrated in a Gaudiya Matha publication compiled by one of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta’s disciples.

Jagannatha Dasa once approached Mahaprabhu without getting permission from the Lord’s personal servant. Jagannatha Dasa had written his own translation of the Bhagavatam and desired to recite it for the Lord. This translation was in Oriyan and happened to contain five new chapters of the author’s own invention. In order to avoid hearing this concocted creation of Jagannatha Dasa, the Lord told him, “A fallen jiva such as Myself is not worthy to hear the Bhagavatam composed by a poet like you. You have become too great, ativadi. An insignificant soul like Me can have nothing to do with you.”

Being covered by false pride Jagannatha Dasa and his many followers took Mahaprabhu’s sarcastic statement to be one of praise rather than condemnation. The followers of Jagannatha Dasa then propagated his Bhagavatam throughout Orissa. The true followers of Sri Caitanya, however, reject the Bhagavatam by Jagannatha Dasa.

If one examines the cult of Jagannatha Dasa, it becomes quite clear why Mahaprabhu shunned his association. Jagannatha Dasa and his followers among other things claimed that Jagannatha Dasa was the incarnation of Srimati Radharani, that he was the personification of Srimati Radharani’s laughter. Certainly such a claim could hold no bearing over the followers of Sri Caitanya.

Another reason why Sri Caitanya rejected Jagannatha Dasa was because Jagannatha Dasa contradicted the original text of Vyasadeva and he sometimes leaned towards mayavadi impersonalism.

Later, after being rejected by Sri Caitanya, Jagannatha Dasa began mixing freely with women. His melodious singing attracted many unsuspecting women folk to hear his Bhagavatam recitations and serve him in various ways such as massaging his body. Eventually this came to the attention of Maharaja Prataparudra and Jagannatha Dasa was arrested and interrogated by the King. When the King asked him about his behavior Jagannatha Dasa replied, “I see no difference between men and women.” Maharaja Prataparudra then had Jagannatha Dasa imprisoned for some time.

The Ativadi sect also claims that Lord Jagannatha reveals to them secret revelations of apocalyptic visions of the end of the world. It is indeed amusing that in recent times these Ativadi prophecies have even duped some western Vaisnavas to travel to Orissa to have a glimpse of the future from an Ativadi priest known as the Copper-plate Baba. This Copper-plate Baba has been consulted numerous times by some western gurus and sannyasis in ISKCON. Little do they know that the Copper-plate Baba is the representative of Jagannatha Dasa and the Ativadi sect.

Unfortunately, in olden times the ativadi mentality also entered other Gaudiya Vaisnavas and caused their fall down from pure devotional service. During the seventeenth century a man from the Surma valley in Assam entered the Vaisnava communities of Bengal and Vrndavana. Eventually he took diksa from Sri Krsna-carana Cakravarti and became known as Rupa Kaviraja. This Rupa Kaviraja studied Srimad Bhagavatam under Sri Mukunda Dasa, a well known Vaisnava of the time. The residents of Radha-kunda felt great happiness to see Rupa Kaviraja engaged thus. Gradually though he became proud of his learning.

Soon after the disappearance of Sri Mukunda Dasa, Rupa Kaviraja made a grave offence to the great Vaisnavi Srimati Krsna-priya Thakurani. One day, all the Vaisnavas assembled to hear Rupa Kaviraja recite the Bhagavatam. Before he began, Krsna-priya Thakurani arrived and the devotees offered her all respects. Rupa Kaviraja however, did not show her any respect. During his recital, Rupa Kaviraja noticed that she was chanting and he became disturber at this. With anger, he asked Krsna-priya Thakurani, “ How is it possible to be doing two things simultaneously? It is very disturbing to see how you are chanting while I am reciting the Bhagavatam.”

With great humility, the Thakurani replied, “It is simply the habit of my tongue to chant continuously – it doesn’t impede my hearing at all.” Hearing this, Rupa Kaviraja sat back and fumed in anger. From this moment he was ruined. He offended Krsna-priya Thakurani, then later he made offences to his guru, his parama-guru and other Vaisnavas. Then Rupa Kaviraja became more and more proud of his learning and was ultimately robbed of the results of his spiritual advancement.

Since that time the Gaudiya Vaisnavas have referred to Rupa Kaviraja as being an Ativadi, one who is too great or knows too much.

Later on Rupa Kaviraja published a manuscript supporting the sahajiya conceptions and claimed that it had been written by Srila Rupa Gosvami. For all of his outrageous activities, the daughter of Sri Srinivasa Acarya, Srimati Hemalata Gosvamini tore the kanti-mala from his neck and ostracized him from the Vaisnava community. After this, the followers of Rupa Kaviraja began to wear only one strand of tulasi-beads since he was only left with one strand after they were broken by Hemalata.

According to the false doctrine of Rupa Kaviraja, known as Sauromya, one should imitate the gopis of Vraja in ones sadhaka-deha in order to gain entrance into the confidential lilas of the Divine Couple. Rupa Kaviraja was also against the worship of Tulasi and Salagrama and the following of ekadasi-vrata since the damsels of Vrndavana do not follow these vidhis.

In time the luster of Rupa Kaviraja disappeared and he soon contacted leprosy which spread rapidly throughout his entire body. Reduced to a decaying wretch, Rupa Kaviraja fled to Bengal and tried to gain entrance into his guru’s asrama pretending that everything was normal. But the Vaisnavas of Bengal had already heard of his offenses and he was forced to leave Bengal. He then traveled to Orissa and stayed in the village of Khuriya-grama. There his body became thoroughly eaten up with leprosy and in great pain he slowly died. It is said that he became a ghost who would haunt those who committed Vaisnava-aparadha.

The following paragraph is from an article by Srila Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura on the life of Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti which appeared in The Harmonist (Vol.18, No.18. 1922):

“Srinivasa Acarya’s famous daughter, Srimati Hemalata Thakurani, rejected an envious disciple named Sri Rupa Kaviraja from the Vaisnava society. This Rupa Kaviraja is counted amongst the deviant sub-branch of the Gaudiya Vaisnava sampradaya known as Ativadi — he spread his own concocted philosophy (against Gaudiya tradition), stating that only a person in the renounced order of life is capable of acting as acarya. He claimed that it was not possible for a householder to become a spiritual master. Fully disregarding the vidhi-marga, or path of devotional rules and regulations, he also tried to preach a philosophical path of raga-marga, or spontaneous devotion, which was completely unregulated and undisciplined. He also claimed that smarana (remembrance) was possible without the help of sravana and kirtana (hearing and chanting). Thus, Rupa Kaviraja propagated a path that was contrary to the path shown by the Gosvamis. Therefore, Srila Cakravarti Thakura has refuted these false conclusions in his Sarartha-darsini commentary on the third Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam. Actually, this refutation is a rendering of the truths outlined in Srila Jiva Gosvami’s Bhakti Sandarbha.”

One may be very learned in the scriptures, one may be adept at quoting many slokas, one may have some understanding of the Vaisnava siddhanta and be proficient in explaining its subtle details, but if one is devoid of the quality of true humility then all these attributes are simply like decorations on a dead body. Srila Rupa Gosvami has explained in Bhakti-rasamrta-Sindhu that a devotee should not read too many books (bahu-sastra-vyakhya-vivadi tyagah, or renouncing the study of many scriptures in order to make novel explanations and arguments). This point is also mentioned by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu Himself in the Caitanya-caritamrta (Madhya 22.118) –

bahu-grantha-kalabhyasa-vyakhyana varjiba

“One should not partially study many scriptures just to be able to give references and expand explanations.”

Nowadays there are some pretentious devotees that deem themselves as very learned, traveling here and there, they speak on so-called high topics and compete for the cheap admiration of people who are ignorant in these matters. These so-called devotees expertly speak novel interpretations to the scriptures and sweet illustrative stories, but such discussions simply fall on the deaf ears of the unqualified audiences having only the impact of aranya-rodana-nyaya, crying out in the wilderness.

Learning alone does not qualify one as an advanced Vaisnava, especially if by one’s learning one becomes proud and offensive to other Vaisnavas. Study, or svadhyaya, is meant only to cultivate devotion to the Supreme Lord. Too much learning, even of a good thing, may sometimes cause one to become puffed up and proud. Great learning must therefore be balanced by great Vaisnava humility, otherwise one becomes an Ativadi, too great.

krsna · May 19, 2006