Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 sri: [PS: Please address this objectively for an outsider] Why are their objections to Non-brahmins from becoming priests??? What is it that priests do, and which part of the work cannot be done by others except brahmins. Please reply with specific duties. Sowmya Ravi <ravi_sowmya (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: It is indeed shameful that inspite of India being a hindu country, because of politicians we are afraid to fight on this issue, wonder if any one will dare to bring in similar law in other religions like Muslims, christians etc. I donot intend to bring this with kind of argument but, my concern is what happens to varnashrama darma . And what ultimately can be acheived on this. regards ravi iyngar >Thatha Desikan <tsdesigan (AT) (DOT) co.in> >ramanuja >ramanuja, Oppiliappan, >, desikasampradaya, >vaideekam >[ramanuja] All people can become priests >Thu, 18 May 2006 13:51:29 +0100 (BST) > >Pranams to all people, > >I hope many would have heard that the current DMK >government of Tamil Nadu, is going to issue a >government order that "All people, not just brahmins, >can become priests in hindu temples". He has intended >for all the temples that are currently under >government. They also seems a plan to train many >non-brahmin people for this. > >Our tradition is based on varnashrama darma and not >caste fights. But, he wont understand this. > >Sorry to bring this news to groups, but any idea on >what all the temples that might get affected? > >Regards, >Desigan > > > > Azhvar EmberumAnAr JeeyAr ThiruvadigalE Saranam http://www.vedics.net Bhagavad gita Culture Ways of Sri Visit your group "ramanuja" on the web. ramanuja Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Except for the last sentence, all the other logics used reflect an incorrect understanding of our sampradAyam. AzhvArs who are nitya sUri-s, are not to be compared to any Tom, Dick and Harry who walk on the road. rAmAnuja, who undoubdedly was a great reformer, never got any non-brahmin to be a priest, or to enter the sanctum sanctorum. In SrI bhAshyam, he has indicated his position on these kinds of issues. However, I agree that we should follow the guidance of our AcArya-s, and I do not question the right of the writer to have his own personal opinion. "T. Sampath Kumaran" <tamarapusampath > wrote: Pranams, We have our Azhwars from all communities. Nammazwar though belonging to the lowest casts, is being worshipped in our temples and given a prominent place. We have accepted Tulaka nachiar. Our great Acharya Sri Ramanuja was a social reformer who brought in people from all communities to the Vaishnavite fold. Instead of getting agitated over the issue we are to work out an acceptable solution, with the guidance of our Acharyas. Adiyen Dsan Tamarapu Sampath Kumaran --- Thatha Desikan wrote: > Pranams to all people, > > I hope many would have heard that the current DMK > government of Tamil Nadu, is going to issue a > government order that "All people, not just > brahmins, > can become priests in hindu temples". He has > intended > for all the temples that are currently under > government. They also seems a plan to train many > non-brahmin people for this. > > Our tradition is based on varnashrama darma and not > caste fights. But, he wont understand this. > > Sorry to bring this news to groups, but any idea on > what all the temples that might get affected? > > Regards, > Desigan > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > http://in.messenger. > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Messenger with Voice. ------------------------ Sponsor --------------------~--> Get to your groups with one click. Know instantly when new email arrives http://us.click./.7bhrC/MGxNAA/yQLSAA/XUWolB/TM --~-> <*> Oppiliappan/ <*> Oppiliappan <*> Your Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Dear Devotees, There are 38000 temples under the control of the HR&CE. Now, out of these 38000 temples not all temples currently have brahmin priests. Most of the saiva and sakta temples have pujaris and they are not from brahmana community. According to some of the scholars, temple worship can be performed by one has undergone respective agama initiation. Before getting agitated, we have to see if there is explicit injunction against non-brahmins becoming priests. Also, we have to see if there is any explicit injunction against sudras becoming priests. The constitution provides protection against intervention of religious expression. So it is possible to fight this out in the supreme court. But the problem is that the traditional mutts have not systematized the knowledge. Also, they have failed to clarify what are the core principles of varnashra are and why they are non-discriminatory. The government does not provide any funds for the temple maintainence. But it audits the property to ensure that it is not stolen. It is also responsible for appointing Executive Officers who are responsible for temple management. Like every system, there are good intentions but it has become extremely corrupt. The temple properties have been systematically swindled over the last few decades. Many archakas had to leave their profession. Most brahmana families do not get in to matrimony with archaka community. Some of the archakas have connived with government officials in the corrupt practices. The lord will definitely take care and establish dharma. But we have our duty to perform in terms of disseminating proper knowledge so that every one is pacified. The question is whether we are willing to do that with equanimity to all. One who is a sudra in this life may be a brahmana in another and today's brahmanas may well be born in some other varna. What is important is to protect dharma which is in the interest of one and all. Best Regards Rajaram V. Narasimhan Krishnamachari <champakam > wrote: This is very disturbing indeed. Obviously they won't listen to our AcAryas. It is my personal observation and belief that bhagavAn takes care of the people who violate His laws in His own way. Once the sanctity of the temple has been violated, it is not a temple anymore, and so ideally we should boycott these as places of worship. But unfortunately the hindu-s are well-known in not uniting together on any mass action, and mass action is successful only when there is mass support. So He is the only One who can show guidance to us on this. I am sure He will give us this guidance through our AcArya-s. -Krishnamachari -Krishnamachari Thatha Desikan <tsdesigan (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: Pranams to all people, I hope many would have heard that the current DMK government of Tamil Nadu, is going to issue a government order that "All people, not just brahmins, can become priests in hindu temples". He has intended for all the temples that are currently under government. They also seems a plan to train many non-brahmin people for this. Our tradition is based on varnashrama darma and not caste fights. But, he wont understand this. Sorry to bring this news to groups, but any idea on what all the temples that might get affected? Regards, Desigan Send instant messages to your online friends http://in.messenger. New Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big. Fund raising Beliefs Religion Visit your group "Oppiliappan" on the web. Oppiliappan Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Messenger with Voice. ------------------------ Sponsor --------------------~--> Get to your groups with one click. Know instantly when new email arrives http://us.click./.7bhrC/MGxNAA/yQLSAA/XUWolB/TM --~-> <*> Oppiliappan/ <*> Oppiliappan <*> Your Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 When there is a problem the lord always send wise devotees. It is nice to hear the views of Jalasayanan and Sampath. Out of the 38000 temples under the control of HR&CE, most of them have non-brahmana priests - especially saiva and sakta temples. According to some vaishnava scholars all that is required for performing poojas in Vaishnava temples is initiation in vaikhanasa agama. Now, most people know that M. Karunanidhi is a practising Hindu in private albeit for selfish reasons. Even publicly, he is known to to some of the principles of yoga. According to some sources, he is heavily in to tantra ands srauddha karmas for personal gains. It is likely that he has consulted enough scholars before taking this decision. But what is also likely is that he is merely doing this out aggression against the brahmin caste to consolidate DK votes. The other possibility, the most likely one in my opinion, is that he is doing this to appoint priests who will connive with his party men to swindle rich temples. We have to oppose if it is really against our system. If it is not, which I think is likely the case we have to show that what he is doing is already in place and take the wind out his sail. The biggest problem is the lack of scholary devotees who are willing to spend time and effort on protecting our dharma and disseminate proper knowledge. ZZZ Jalasayanan <jalasayanan (AT) lycos (DOT) co.uk> wrote: Sri U Ve Swami Sannadhial Adiyen Dasasya Vijnapanam There is no need to worry on this, is my humble opinion. As long as Vaishnavas are appointed for Vaishnavite temples, this is not going to affect us much. Being Paancharaatri, there is no need to make difference between Vaishnav Brahmins and Vaishnav non Brahmins. Vaikanasa Temples are very much limited and most of them off late has taken Paancharaatra courses Problems will mostly will be of Siva Temples where in Sivacharyas will face problems. Even after this, I really doubt how many non brahmins will stick to temple poojas as regular work when the payment is very meagre? JalasayanaDasan - Thatha Desikan ramanuja ; Oppiliappan ; ; desikasampradaya ; vaideekam Thursday, May 18, 2006 6:21 PM All people can become priests Pranams to all people, I hope many would have heard that the current DMK government of Tamil Nadu, is going to issue a government order that "All people, not just brahmins, can become priests in hindu temples". He has intended for all the temples that are currently under government. They also seems a plan to train many non-brahmin people for this. Our tradition is based on varnashrama darma and not caste fights. But, he wont understand this. Sorry to bring this news to groups, but any idea on what all the temples that might get affected? Regards, Desigan Send instant messages to your online friends http://in.messenger. Fund raising Beliefs Religion a.. Visit your group "Oppiliappan" on the web. b.. Oppiliappan c.. Fund raising Beliefs Religion Visit your group "Oppiliappan" on the web. Oppiliappan New Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big. ------------------------ Sponsor --------------------~--> Get to your groups with one click. Know instantly when new email arrives http://us.click./.7bhrC/MGxNAA/yQLSAA/XUWolB/TM --~-> <*> Oppiliappan/ <*> Oppiliappan <*> Your Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2006 Report Share Posted May 20, 2006 Adiyen believe that it all because of greediness to earn more money, we all want to settle in up countries (and say Oh our panoma Ranganathan has not been sung by Alwars you know !!!). We have not followed our varnashra dharma, that's why others want to paly our role. Even it is not bad, The Supreme Lord Sriman Narayanan is not restricted to Brahmins alone. But at the same time entering a garbha graham needs some purity in south. In north (where many avatars have taken place )they allow any one to do poojas . P.Kannan ________________________________ ramanuja [ramanuja] On Behalf Of pritesh patel Friday, May 19, 2006 5:52 PM ramanuja [ramanuja] All people can become priests sri: [PS: Please address this objectively for an outsider] Why are their objections to Non-brahmins from becoming priests??? What is it that priests do, and which part of the work cannot be done by others except brahmins. Please reply with specific duties. Sowmya Ravi <ravi_sowmya (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: It is indeed shameful that inspite of India being a hindu country, because of politicians we are afraid to fight on this issue, wonder if any one will dare to bring in similar law in other religions like Muslims, christians etc. I donot intend to bring this with kind of argument but, my concern is what happens to varnashrama darma . And what ultimately can be acheived on this. regards ravi iyngar >Thatha Desikan <tsdesigan (AT) (DOT) co.in> >ramanuja >ramanuja, Oppiliappan, >, desikasampradaya, >vaideekam >[ramanuja] All people can become priests >Thu, 18 May 2006 13:51:29 +0100 (BST) > >Pranams to all people, > >I hope many would have heard that the current DMK >government of Tamil Nadu, is going to issue a >government order that "All people, not just brahmins, >can become priests in hindu temples". He has intended >for all the temples that are currently under >government. They also seems a plan to train many >non-brahmin people for this. > >Our tradition is based on varnashrama darma and not >caste fights. But, he wont understand this. > >Sorry to bring this news to groups, but any idea on >what all the temples that might get affected? > >Regards, >Desigan > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 Dear Swamin The temple worship is governed by the two agamas namely Vaikanasa and Pancharatra. THe diferent temples follow different agamas according to their tradition. Agamas are smritis as against Nigamas which are vedas which are apurisheya i.e not made by individuals.Vaikanasa is claimed to be Sruti. The vedas as such do not support idol worship. Hence the agama practices especially Pancharatra have been critisised as non-vedic. Pancharatra agama has been defended by Yamuna as wll as Vedanta Desika aginst cricism by advaitis like Sankaracharya and Kumarila Bhatta. Pancharatra has so many samhitas , the importants ones being Sattvata, Jayakhya,Padma. As to who is quqlified to do worship in temples, the Vaikanasa and Pancharatra agamas express different views. According to Vaikanasa , the priest must be a householder. Upanayana is the only ceremony required. He may be trained in Vedas and Shrauta texts.He must be a brahmin as upanayana is insisted ,belonging to vaikanasa families. According to Pancharatra texts, the priet may belong to any ashrama except Sanyasa. Pancha Samskara and Chakrabja diksha is necessary for pararta puja meaning worshipping for the community. Some Pancharatra texts allow all castes to do puja and even women are allowed to do pujas at temples (Vishwamitra Samhita.). I am quoting from the book Lakshmi Tantra published by Adyar library edited by Pandit Krishnamacharya in his introductory chapter. Karma vak manasaihi samyak bhakthanam paramesware Chaturnam adhikaro vai prapte dikshakrame sati. (satvata aamhita) Pama samhita restricts this to Brahmanas . Pararthayajanam kuryu vipra mukhyanukalpayohnaivadhikarino gauna dikshasamskara varjitah. ( charya padah ) I stand to be corrected.. Adiyen Ramanuja dasan Soundararajan . Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 Dear members, Here is a slightly dissenting view. Some of you may find it un- palatable. Even at the risk of being understood and pilloried, I, even as a SriVaishnavan, would still venture to express the bitter but inescapable truth. The state of our temples in T.Nadu is generally pathetic. Out of the 100 odd 'divya-desams' hardly 10-15% are well-cared for. The rest are all simply going to seed. One of the main reasons for such a state is the apathy and neglect of the brahmin community. Once upon a time, lack of money-power used to be blamed for such neglect. Now, even when there is money-power to be found amongst the community, there is abject lack of man-power to do the job. All the brahmins in the 'agrahArams' have become software-engineers in Silicon Valley and chartered-accountants in the Middle-East and Africa. Steadily over the past few decades, they have simply moved on in life to "better their lot" elsewhere than in temples. So there is a big vacuum in the affairs of temples in T.Nadu. Both Nature and Social Order abhor a vacuum. They will see to it the vacuum fills up, one way or the other. Therefore, if Brahmins have moved out of temples, it is only natural to expect others in society to want to take their place. Brahmins long ago lost the right to claim hereditary rights for 'archaka' positions in the temples. They simply did not measure up to the challenge of the times. That is why they all took the easy way out, took up other non-traditional vocations to better their material living standards in life. It would be hypocritical on our part after so many years of dereliction of traditional duty to now agitate for 'archaka' rights. Let us be graceful in accepting our faults and failings. Let us pray and hope that in the hands of other non-brahmin 'archakas' in the new dispensation in Tamil Nadu the temples will flourish and prosper. Let us pray to the ALmighty that at least the 100- odd 'divya desams' will see better days now that they will be in "better hands". Let us pray that religious-mindedness, theism, God-fearing attitudes and charitable behaviour ('aram' and 'aastikam') will now spread far and wide amongst all sections of society than ever before. Regards, dAsan, Sudarshan > Thatha Desikan <tsdesigan wrote: > Pranams to all people, > > I hope many would have heard that the current DMK > government of Tamil Nadu, is going to issue a > government order that "All people, not just brahmins, > can become priests in hindu temples". He has intended > for all the temples that are currently under > government. They also seems a plan to train many > non-brahmin people for this. > > Our tradition is based on varnashrama darma and not > caste fights. But, he wont understand this. > > Sorry to bring this news to groups, but any idea on > what all the temples that might get affected? > > Regards, > Desigan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 Dear Memebers The Government of Tamil Nadu has approved the order to make any 'qualified' person to become archaka. There is a long way to go, of course. First it needs to be published and objections obtained from public. Then the implementation.For that the Govt. has to find institutions to 'qualify' 'anyoneq' Questions as to where are such insitutions, 'who' will teach and 'what' are the qualifications. To do that the Govrnment as in other cases, would form Commitee and everyone knows what happens to the Commitees and their recommendations. Assuming recommendations do come, litigations on them are not ruled out. When the question of which Thiruman should adore the elephant takes ages in the Court one can imagine the web of legal battle on these issues. In the meantime the Govt. will have a thousand other day to day problems to face than to run after qualifiying 'anyone' for the job of the lacklusture priesthood. At the end of the day, the malady lies in the temples being under the Government. The day the HR and CE ministries were contemplated the wisemen like Rajaji and others should have resisted and stopped that move. The damage has been done and which ever Government comes here after, the issue would remain alive for reasons other than real interest to implement. In the meantime the existing practice would be continuing. Srivilliputtur Govindakrishnan Alagar Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Messenger with Voice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 Dear Sri Soundararajan, I have heard similar views from other scholars. It is important that practising scholars come out and get together to protect the tradition. It is in the interest of our tradition if all castes participate in temple worship WITHOUT violating the traditional systems laid out by the great sages. The effort by M. Karunanidhi may be destructive. We have to be wise to convert it in to advantage for the temples and current archaka community. Best Regards Rajaram V. rajan s <rajan_ramaswamy > wrote: Dear Swamin The temple worship is governed by the two agamas namely Vaikanasa and Pancharatra. THe diferent temples follow different agamas according to their tradition.. Agamas are smritis as against Nigamas which are vedas which are apurisheya i.e not made by individuals.Vaikanasa is claimed to be Sruti. The vedas as such do not support idol worship. Hence the agama practices especially Pancharatra have been critisised as non-vedic. Pancharatra agama has been defended by Yamuna as wll as Vedanta Desika aginst cricism by advaitis like Sankaracharya and Kumarila Bhatta. Pancharatra has so many samhitas , the importants ones being Sattvata, Jayakhya,Padma. As to who is quqlified to do worship in temples, the Vaikanasa and Pancharatra agamas express different views. According to Vaikanasa , the priest must be a householder. Upanayana is the only ceremony required. He may be trained in Vedas and Shrauta texts.He must be a brahmin as upanayana is insisted ,belonging to vaikanasa families. According to Pancharatra texts, the priet may belong to any ashrama except Sanyasa. Pancha Samskara and Chakrabja diksha is necessary for pararta puja meaning worshipping for the community. Some Pancharatra texts allow all castes to do puja and even women are allowed to do pujas at temples (Vishwamitra Samhita.). I am quoting from the book Lakshmi Tantra published by Adyar library edited by Pandit Krishnamacharya in his introductory chapter. Karma vak manasaihi samyak bhakthanam paramesware Chaturnam adhikaro vai prapte dikshakrame sati. (satvata aamhita) Pama samhita restricts this to Brahmanas . Pararthayajanam kuryu vipra mukhyanukalpayohnaivadhikarino gauna dikshasamskara varjitah. ( charya padah ) I stand to be corrected.. Adiyen Ramanuja dasan Soundararajan . Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 Dear Sri Govindakrishnan, Very practically wise statement. Already the archaka community has started opposing. The damage done by taking away the temples is not permanent. We can retrieve the temples and restore them. The dikshidhars in Chidambaram fought a very arduous battle up to the Supreme Court and finally emerged victorious. When Jayalalitha wanted to introduce Anna Dhan in Churches, the Christians refused to accept it sayingg that it is against their principles. So they would rather have investments by the Government in schools etc. They have the audacity to decide what they take in charity. But when it to comes to Hindu traditions, there is muteness whether temple money is spent on colleges, hostpitals, annadhan or whether temple traditions are broken. When HR & CE does not invest money in to temple protection why control temples? The current generation of Sri Vaishnavas should ask themselves : Do I have the same genes of my forefathers who fought the muslim invasion and laid down 13000 lives in Sri Rangam? I am not against other communities becoming temple archakas if it is allowed in the agamas and is in line with temple traditions. But we should not allow it to happen if it is an act of aggression against us. It is our basic duty to make sure that we defeat the move and let this move of inclusion be governed by intelligent and learned practising traditional scholars. Best Regards Rajaram V. govindakrishnan alagar <alagar_g > wrote: Dear Memebers The Government of Tamil Nadu has approved the order to make any 'qualified' person to become archaka. There is a long way to go, of course. First it needs to be published and objections obtained from public. Then the implementation.For that the Govt. has to find institutions to 'qualify' 'anyoneq' Questions as to where are such insitutions, 'who' will teach and 'what' are the qualifications. To do that the Govrnment as in other cases, would form Commitee and everyone knows what happens to the Commitees and their recommendations. Assuming recommendations do come, litigations on them are not ruled out. When the question of which Thiruman should adore the elephant takes ages in the Court one can imagine the web of legal battle on these issues. In the meantime the Govt. will have a thousand other day to day problems to face than to run after qualifiying 'anyone' for the job of the lacklusture priesthood. At the end of the day, the malady lies in the temples being under the Government. The day the HR and CE ministries were contemplated the wisemen like Rajaji and others should have resisted and stopped that move. The damage has been done and which ever Government comes here after, the issue would remain alive for reasons other than real interest to implement. In the meantime the existing practice would be continuing. Srivilliputtur Govindakrishnan Alagar Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Messenger with Voice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 SrI: Dear Devotees : Sriman Govindakrishnan Alagar's observations are most pertinent in the context of this discussion . As a retired IAS officer , If I remember correct , Sri Alagar understands well how the Government and its bureaucracy works . It is my hope that this dhurmathi's ( Chief Minister's) edict will experience a slow death and will be thrown on the ash heap of History as in the case of the Krimi kanta ChOzhan . Meanwhile , let us help to push this aggressive behaviour out however we can and think of MahA Lakshmi's incomparable KaruNA katAksham to remove all these amangaLams including the source . Let us reflect on the Parama MangaLa Moorthy , MahA Lakshmi and Her own words about Herself in MahA BhAratham : saptha dEvyO madhashDmyO vaasam chaishyanthi cha ashDadhaa Aasaa SraddhA dhruti: kshAnthir-vibhUthi: sannathi: kshamaa ashDamAm viddhi mAmm thAsAm purOgAm PaakaSAsana --- Maha Lakshmi Indhra SamvAdham MahA Lakshmi instructs Indhran here that She with other seven manifestations of Her shine as Ashta Lakshmi . The seven Manifestations are as : Aasaa , Sraddhaa , Dhruthi , KshAnthi , VibhUthi , Sannathi and Kshamaa. May that MahA Lakshmi chase away this dark cloud taking over the chief Ministership ! On behalf of all Lakshmi KumAra DaasarhaL , Oppiliappan KOil V.SaThakOpan - "govindakrishnan alagar" <alagar_g > <Oppiliappan> Sunday, May 21, 2006 9:16 AM Re: Re: All people can become priests Dear Memebers The Government of Tamil Nadu has approved the order to make any 'qualified' person to become archaka. There is a long way to go, of course. First it needs to be published and objections obtained from public. Then the implementation.For that the Govt. has to find institutions to 'qualify' 'anyoneq' Questions as to where are such insitutions, 'who' will teach and 'what' are the qualifications. To do that the Govrnment as in other cases, would form Commitee and everyone knows what happens to the Commitees and their recommendations. Assuming recommendations do come, litigations on them are not ruled out. When the question of which Thiruman should adore the elephant takes ages in the Court one can imagine the web of legal battle on these issues. In the meantime the Govt. will have a thousand other day to day problems to face than to run after qualifiying 'anyone' for the job of the lacklusture priesthood. At the end of the day, the malady lies in the temples being under the Government. The day the HR and CE ministries were contemplated the wisemen like Rajaji and others should have resisted and stopped that move. The damage has been done and which ever Government comes here after, the issue would remain alive for reasons other than real interest to implement. In the meantime the existing practice would be continuing. Srivilliputtur Govindakrishnan Alagar Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Messenger with Voice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 Dear Sri Soundararajan swami. A very nice write up. Does Vipra mean only Brahmana or any learned person? Ekam Sat viprah Bahudaa vadanti Adiyen Raghava Velugaleti Charya rajan s <rajan_ramaswamy > wrote: Dear Swamin The temple worship is governed by the two agamas namely Vaikanasa and Pancharatra. THe diferent temples follow different agamas according to their tradition. Agamas are smritis as against Nigamas which are vedas which are apurisheya i.e not made by individuals.Vaikanasa is claimed to be Sruti. The vedas as such do not support idol worship. Hence the agama practices especially Pancharatra have been critisised as non-vedic. Pancharatra agama has been defended by Yamuna as wll as Vedanta Desika aginst cricism by advaitis like Sankaracharya and Kumarila Bhatta. Pancharatra has so many samhitas , the importants ones being Sattvata, Jayakhya,Padma. As to who is quqlified to do worship in temples, the Vaikanasa and Pancharatra agamas express different views. According to Vaikanasa , the priest must be a householder. Upanayana is the only ceremony required. He may be trained in Vedas and Shrauta texts.He must be a brahmin as upanayana is insisted ,belonging to vaikanasa families. According to Pancharatra texts, the priet may belong to any ashrama except Sanyasa. Pancha Samskara and Chakrabja diksha is necessary for pararta puja meaning worshipping for the community. Some Pancharatra texts allow all castes to do puja and even women are allowed to do pujas at temples (Vishwamitra Samhita.). I am quoting from the book Lakshmi Tantra published by Adyar library edited by Pandit Krishnamacharya in his introductory chapter. Karma vak manasaihi samyak bhakthanam paramesware Chaturnam adhikaro vai prapte dikshakrame sati. (satvata aamhita) Pama samhita restricts this to Brahmanas . Pararthayajanam kuryu vipra mukhyanukalpayohnaivadhikarino gauna dikshasamskara varjitah. ( charya padah ) I stand to be corrected.. Adiyen Ramanuja dasan Soundararajan . Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 Dear Sri Rajaram, I believe that Purvajanma Samskaram, the heritage and Knowledge are transmitted thru Genes but the environment one is surrounded including the upbringing, can either activate, nurture or supress them. Thru awareness and conscience raising by discussions by the groups led by kainkarya Ratna Sri Sadagopan swami the younger generation of SriVaishanavas can rise to the occasion and reverse the current course. Adiyen Raghava Velugaleti Charya Rajaram Venkataramani <v_raja_ram > wrote: Dear Sri Govindakrishnan, The current generation of Sri Vaishnavas should ask themselves : Do I have the same genes of my forefathers who fought the muslim invasion and laid down 13000 lives in Sri Rangam? Best Regards Rajaram V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 Most of the saiva and sakta temples have pujaris and they are not from brahmana community. so Saivites and Shaktas allow anyone (qualified) to become a priest? If so, this makes them very enlightened, in my book. This is the same thing that is done in other religions, like Wicca and Catholicism. Anyone can become a priest of God/Goddess, based on qualifications; not some elitist birthright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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