All people can become priests-my humble opinion

May 19, 2006

Dear Pritesh,

First accept my humble pranams..

Your Question is quite amazing.... As in deed we are not followers of these Doggy Politicians like Karunanithi.... We are followers of Sri Ramanuja... in deed He is the Graetest revolutionirist ..... He would have thought 1000000s of time better then us in giving equal rights to all communities .... If it is correct to make all communites as priests..., He would have done this many many centuries earlier... As I feel it is not right to think of our own in these issuses and it is indeed it is our duty to follow our elders who are 10000s times greater than us...

It is never said that there is any oppose to other communities in Praying Sri Vishnu... Any body can pray him wether he belongs to any caste... any Body can See him... Let these people indulge them selves in praying and worshipping Him sincerely that is enough instead of fighting for the "rights" to enter in to temples as priests...

If every bodyh does their duty.., it is the only way by which Paramatma gets happy as He Himself has told in Srimadh bagavadh Gita( 18th chapter)

And every body has their own duty..

He has also told that " If a persons duty which is made for himself will give him even doshas... it is far far better to do his own duty insteasd of doing 1000 times better the duty of others very perfectly..(bagavadh gita)

So Instead of thinking of others duties if every body atleast try to do their own duty.. it is the best way to express our thanks not only to Sri Krishna, but to our Dear Emperumanar also...

Sorry If I had hurted anyone,

Adiyen

Ramanuja Dasan,

Gopala Sarman

pritesh patel <tesh_tel (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote:

sri:

[PS: Please address this objectively for an outsider]

Why are their objections to Non-brahmins from becoming priests???

What is it that priests do, and which part of the work cannot be done

by others except brahmins. Please reply with specific duties.

Sowmya Ravi <ravi_sowmya (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: It is indeed shameful that inspite of India being a hindu country, because

of politicians we are afraid to fight on this issue, wonder if any one will

dare to bring in similar law in other religions like Muslims,

christians etc.

I donot intend to bring this with kind of argument but, my concern is what

happens to varnashrama darma .

And what ultimately can be acheived on this.

regards

ravi iyngar

>Thatha Desikan <tsdesigan (AT) (DOT) co.in>

>ramanuja

>ramanuja, Oppiliappan,

>, desikasampradaya,

>vaideekam

>[ramanuja] All people can become priests

>Thu, 18 May 2006 13:51:29 +0100 (BST)

>

>Pranams to all people,

>

>I hope many would have heard that the current DMK

>government of Tamil Nadu, is going to issue a

>government order that "All people, not just brahmins,

>can become priests in hindu temples". He has intended

>for all the temples that are currently under

>government. They also seems a plan to train many

>non-brahmin people for this.

>

>Our tradition is based on varnashrama darma and not

>caste fights. But, he wont understand this.

>

>Sorry to bring this news to groups, but any idea on

>what all the temples that might get affected?

>

>Regards,

>Desigan

>

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May 19, 2006

Dear members, praNAmams

If I may, I would like to offer a couple of my observations

about this gained from visits to our beloved Sri Rangam Kovil and

from my simple reading of Ramanuja Gita Bhashya.

On going to the Thaayaar Sannidhi (Lakshmi's shrine) at Sri

Rangam, I noticed that many of the archakars there were 'shaathaadha

shrivaishnavas' (Sri Pritesh Swamin, in Tamil that refers to Shri

Vaishnavas who do not wear the sacred thread). I understand that

they are privileged to have this position in the Sri Rangam kovil

since Ramanuja's time, it's not because of any government quota or

anything like that. So Sri Vivek Swamin, indeed it would appear

that our acharyas and elders have allowed non-brahmins to become

priests for centuries. Let us get our information correct before we

make a blanket statement such as "non-brahmins cannot become

priests" which certainly does not seem to have any basis if my

observations at Sri Rangam were correct. Learned members, please

correct me if I misunderstood what I saw.

What is also another issue is whether other communities are

allowed to have the sacred thread, and there definite cases of even

western europeans being given both yagnyopaveetam and samashrayanam

by our own Sri Vaishnava acharyas - anyone can search on the net to

check this is true. So let us also not presume to make judgements

on this, as that is effectively discrediting the Sri Vaishnava

acharyas who initiated those people. 'Varnashrama dharma' is one

thing, but 'bhaagavata apaachaaram' is (or should be) a much bigger

thing to worry about.

Regarding Sri Vivek swamin's point about 18:47 of Bhagavad

Gita: "Doing ones own duty, even if faulty, is better than adopting

that of others" does not mean 'shUdras should not do a brahmin's

job' or anything like that: according to Ramanujar's Gita Bhashya it

means that we should not presume to take up the difficult process of

jnaana yoga and control of the senses when karma yoga is what we are

more innately suited to by virtue of our connection with prakrti.

Please refer to Swami Ramanujar's commentary and learned members,

again please correct any mistakes in my understanding.

I would hope our Sri Vaishnava community at least, would have a

bit more sensitivity to the issue of non-brahmins serving in temples

rather than a knee-jerk reaction of condemnation. Nothing is quite

as black and white as we think it is... although I am not Indian-

born or raised and therefore not qualified to comment on the

intricacies of caste politics in India, I would at least ask us all

to approach this issue with the compassion that is meant to be a

hallmark Sri Vaishnava lakShaNam. Let's leave such judgements to

the acharyas who understand the true significance

of "varNa", "jAti", "dharma" and all those things better than we lay-

ShriVaishnavas do. I hope I have not offended anybody.

sarvAparAdhAn kShamasva

namO nArAyaNAya

Ranjan

May 20, 2006

Was Ramanuja a casteist or not? As for Varnashrama dharma, it depend what you mean by it. Be more specific. If you mean caste or vana is to be determined by birth only and nothing else then you're living in the dark ages. Caste-by-bith is being continuously proven to be wrong all over the world, because you have people born into low castes that achieve highly given the opportunity, and brahmins achieving low and living immoral lifestyles. Why should a person like this even be called a Brahmin?

People who believe in varna by birth just want to keep Indian society to their satisfaction, to put others below them and keep themselves high and mighty.

May 20, 2006

Sri U.VE. RANJAN SWAMI,

Please note that there is only a few families' members are archagas in srirangam temple, invariable of Perumal Sannithi, Thayar, Chakkarathalwar, Singa perumal or Uraiyur thayar sannidhis. All Brahmins are also not entitled to do archanai or archaga kainkaryam. Especially in Srirangam, everything has been already set by Sri RAMANUJA. In Vazhi thirunamam, we chant as " THIRUVARANGAR SELVAM MUTRUM THIRUTHIVAITHAN VAZHIYAE". Like these archagas families many other acharyan thiruvamshams are also deputed for various specific kainkaryams. Please note archaga kainkaryam is not the only kainkaryam in temple. Likewise sathatha Srivaishnavas have got their own specific kainkaryams and they do follow it.They are not archagas. So everything has got its own qualifications and some based on family rights. So I feel it is not apt to grab anybody's rights or to ask for it by any sort of rules or created situations.If possible one has to try to qualify themselves for many kainkaryams

which are available to all, so as to maintain the sanctity of them.

We should remind nammalwar verses states that Kainkaryams have to be done for Bhagavan's wishes and happiness and not for our comfort and happiness. It is Sure, He will be happy if we do any kainkaryam to our level with sincerity and honesty.

"Thamargal Thamargal Thamargalam Sadhire Vaikka Thamiyerkey"

Adiyen,

Rajagopala Ramanuja Dasan.

mahakala · May 21, 2006

<TABLE class=tborder cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR title="Post 926307" vAlign=top><TD class=alt1 align=middle width=125>2</TD><TD class=alt1>Was Ramanuja a casteist or not?</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Ramanuja's teaching got hijacked by the caste conscious brahmins.

Ramanuja himslef accepted a sudra as his guru and most of the alvars including the founder of the sampradayam - Namalvar was himself a sudra.

December 12, 2006

aduyen anega kodi dhandans to this group

let us take issue by issue regarding being a bramhin.

i would like to start with this issue of practicing bramhinism.

a bramhin is defined as a person who is a teacher with lots of qualities to be learnt from him by the society. he will guide the soceity....from jannana to marana in all spects..... like nyaya , tarka and philosophy... and it goes on.

the upanayana ceremony itself stands for this.we really need to consider why this ceremony needs to be done.... basiclly to intiate a person into learning....it is like preparing him to hostel education.....

but now the whole aspect of upanayan ceremony has lost its importance. nobody does the cermony at the right age..... so we have failed at the inital stage itself.

food practices to our kids have changed, so the question of bramhin is out ...we only need to look for people who are practicing bramhinism.....

and regarding priests it is like this in shaivites we have the sivachariyars who are traditional priests in temples...but when u look into history they all were not bramhins.......the same way in vaishanvites we have the vikanasas priests they are also the same....

but as u all say to be a priest

u need lots of qualities...

like to continue.....

gir22@