Guest guest Posted June 8, 1999 Report Share Posted June 8, 1999 Re: "Sri Visnu" "COM: Radha Vinoda (das) BVS (Sofia - BG)" wrote: > [Text 2381746 from COM] > > Pamho! AgtSP! > I just finded these lines reg. not offered food which is karma free. > > > very easy. You could pick up an apple from under some tree that does not > > belong to anyone and there will be no karma attached to it, yet it is not > > prasadam. > > > > ys > > I don't want to start again this discussion, but I thought that somebode > where could answer me how could food which is taken withould being offered > to the Lord be karma free? Don't we in that case take it of our sense > gratification? > > Ys Rvd I think Radha Vinoda prabhu is on the right track. Just to be "vegetarian" does not mean that the food we eat is "karma-free." Food can only be karma-free when it is offered to Krsna. One of Krsna's central points in Bhagavad-gita is that *everything* we do will produce a good or bad karmic reaction. There is only one possible way to avoid karmic reaction is to perform any of our actions for the pleasure of Krsna. The most important way to come to a conclusion in this discussion is to go back and re-read Bhagavad-gita. Over the last year, I have been reading Bhagavad-gita with my son. When you are reading aloud like this to someone who has not read the whole Bhagavad-gita before, many verses and purports stand out more vividly than when you read it the first or even second time. Consider these excerpts: ******************************************** Bg 3.13: The devotees of the Lord are released from all kinds of sins because they eat food which is offered first for sacrifice. Others, who prepare food for personal sense enjoyment, verily eat only sin. purport: The devotees of the Supreme Lord, or the persons who are in Krsna consciousness, are called *santas*, and they are always in love with the Lord...The *santa* being always in a compact of love with the Supreme Personality of Godhead...cannot accept anything without first offering it to the Supreme Person. Therefore, such devotees always perform *yajnas* in different modes of devotional service, such as *sravanam, kirtanam, smaranam, arcanam,* etc., and these performances of *yajnas* keep them always aloof from all kinds of contamination of sinful association in the material worl. Others, who prepare food for self or sense gratification, are not only thieves, but are also the eaters of all kinds of sins. How can a person be happy is he is both a thief and sinful? It is not possible... Bg 9.26 If one offers Me with love and devotion a leaf, a flower, fruit or water, I will accept it. purport: Here Lord Krsna, having established that He is the only enjoyer, the primeval Lord, and the real object of all sacrificial offerings, reveals what types of sacrifices He desires to be offered....In the Third Chapter, verse thirteen, Sri Krsna explains that only the remains of sacrifice are purified and fit for consumption by those who are seeking advancement in life and release from the clutches of the material entanglement. Thnose who do not make an offering of their food, He says, in the same verse, are said to be eating onlyh sin. In other words, their every mouthful is simply deepening their involvement in the complexities of material nature. But preparing nice, simple vegetable dishes, offering them befor a picture or Deity of Lord Krsna and bowing down and praying for Him to accept such a humble offering, enable one to advance steadily in life, to purify the body, and to create fine brain tissues which will lead to clear thinking. Above all, the offering should be made with an attitude of love. Krsna has no need of food, since He already possesses everything that be, yet He wioll accept the offering of one who desires to please Him in that way. The important element, in preparation, in serving and in offering, is to act with love for Krsna...Only the devotee, who accepts Krsna as He describes Himself, without interpretation, can understand that the Supreme Absolute Truth can eat food and enjoy it. Bg 9.27 O son of Kunti, all that you do, all that you eat, all that you offer and give away, as well as all austerities you may perform, should be done as an offering unto Me. Bg 9.28 In this way you will be freed from all reactions to good and evil deeds, and by this principle of renunciation you will be liberated and come to Me. *********************************** Below are additional quotes where Srila Prabhupada explains that the fact that we are vegetarians is secondary in importance to the fact that we eat only foods which have first been offered to Krsna: ********************* **was 73VEGARN.VAN 8/8/97 WE ARE NOT "VEGETARIAN" Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 3: Chapter Twenty-nine, Text 15 :PURPORT Another significant phrase in this verse is natihimsrena ("with minimum violence or sacrifice of life"). Even if a devotee has to commit violence, it should not be done beyond what is necessary. Sometimes the question is put before us: "You ask us not to eat meat, but you are eating vegetables. Do you think that is not violence?" The answer is that eating vegetables is violence, and vegetarians are also committing violence against other living entities because vegetables also have life. Nondevotees are killing cows, goats and so many other animals for eating purposes, and a devotee, who is vegetarian, is also killing. But here, significantly, it is stated that every living entity has to live by killing another entity; that is the law of nature. Jivojivasya jivanam: one living entity is the life for another living entity. But for a human being, that violence should be committed only as much as necessary. Prabhupada's Lectures Bhagavad-gita 1966 660520BG.NY They are called panca-yajnas in the Vedic... So, and even if we do not kill animals, simply by eating vegetables, they are also life. It does not mean that vegetarians are not killing. They are also killing. The law is that a living entity lives by killing other living entities. That is the law. Those who have got hands, they are killing those who have got legs. Just like man is killing animal. The animal is eating the grass, those who have no legs. So this is the law. But our thing is that we have to offer yajna. Killing of animal does not mean that if a man kills a cow or goat for eating, he is killing, and those who are vegetarian, they are not killing. They are also killing. A vegetable has also got life. So it is not the question of killing. It is the question of offering yajna. Prabhupada's Lectures Bhagavad-gita 1974 740531BG.GEN We eat Krsna-prasadam. Krsna says, patram puspam phalam toyam yo me bhaktya prayacchati: "Anyone who offers Me with love and affection vegetables, grains, milk, I eat." So if there is any sin for eating vegetables, that is Krsna's sin, not our sin. We take the prasadam. We are teaching people to eat Krsna-prasadam. We are not teaching people to become vegetarian or non-vegetarian. That is not our business. After all, we have to eat, so if we eat Krsna-prasadam... That is stated, yajna-sistisinah santo mucyante sarva-kilbisaih: "If you accept prasadam which is offered to God, then you are free from all sinful resultant action." Evening Darshan New York, July 11, 1976 760711ED.NY Prabhupada: Yes. That is also sin. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, that whatever you eat, bhunjate te tv agham papa ye pacanty atma-karanat. Anyone is cooking something, meat or vegetables, for his own eating, he is eating only sin. It is not that the vegetarians are not sinful and the meat-eaters are sinful. Everyone is sinful if it is not cooked for Krsna. It is not that we are propagating that you become vegetarian. We are propagating that you become Krsna consciousness. Morning Walk Bombay, April 15, 1976 760415MW.BOM Dr. Patel: That said, tad-artham karma kaunteya mukta-sangah samacara: "You must do everything for Him, even eating." Prabhupada: Yes. Dr. Patel: That is vegetarianism. Prabhupada: Then, then you are... Then automatically he'll become vegetarian. Automatically he'll become vegetarian. If he takes Krsna prasadam, then he is vegetarian automatically. Pusta Krsna: So it may seem like these other things are stepping-stones to Krsna, but is it necessarily so? Prabhupada: No stepping-stone. This is the ultimate, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [bg 18.65], these four things. Unless you come to this point, there is no question of perfection. Dr. Patel: That's right. Then you feel that every action of yours is done for Krsna. ** Morning Walk Bombay, April 15, 1976 760415MW.BOM Dr. Patel: We are killing the body and not... The soul is inkillable. Prabhupada: No, no, no. Don't go to the philosophy. First of all come to the practical. (Dr. Patel laughs) Come to the practical point of view, that after all, you have to eat; otherwise you cannot live. Ahara-nidra-bhaya-maithunam. So if you have to live another living entity, then how you can practice this ahimsa? Mean on the basic principle, the ahimsa paramo dharma, where is ahimsa? You have to kill. Either you kill vegetable or animal, you have to kill. Then where is the standing of ahimsa? That is my point. Dr. Patel: When you kill purposelessly, without any useful... Prabhupada: No, no. No interpretation. They say that "no killing." So no killing is not possible. That is my point. Then where is the thesis stands, that "We are for not, no killing"? Dr. Patel: Every action, sir, is, I mean, entangled in this. Prabhupada: So then our Vaisnava's philosophy is perfect, because we take Krsna prasadam. We don't say vegetables. We are not advocating vegetarianism. We are advocating that "You take Krsna prasadam." How perfect it is. We are not so nonsense that "Because we have become vegetarian, we are perfect." The goats are vegetarian. Dr. Patel: (laughter) And we are indirectly vegetarians if we eat goats. Prabhupada: No, no, no. Even if we vegetarian are, then how you become big? The goats are vegetarian. Huh? Apadani catus-padam. This vegetable is meant for the catus-padam, for the animals, four-legged animals. If somebody says that "Why shall I take this vegetable? It is meant for the animals. I shall take the animal." That is a good argument. Yes. So to become vegetarian is not ahimsa at all. It is a bogus theory. To become a devotee and take Krsna prasadam, that is perfect. Krsna says, patram puspam phalam toyam yo me bhaktya prayacchati. So automatically... Dr. Patel: He does not say, "Give me a, I mean, a (Hindi)." Prabhupada: Yes. Dr. Patel: Patram puspam phalam toyam. Prabhupada: That. Then there is perfection, if you take Krsna prasadam. Prasade sarva-duhkhanam hanir asyopajayate. So this vegetarianism is no good position. Dr. Patel: No, no, the Jains have, I mean, pushed the vegetarians to a very, I mean, to an extent which is... Prabhupada: No, no. What is the benefit? The benefit? The goats are vegetarian. Eh? There are so many animals. They are vegetarian. The monkeys are vegetarian. Dr. Patel: They are perfect vegetarian. Perfect. Prabhupada: And they live in the forest. Dr. Patel: They are sannyasis. (laughs) Prabhupada: But number-one rogue. Each of them keeping one dozen women, at least, and no discrimination between wife or daughter. No discrimination. Just like hogs. That's all. No discrimination. Yasomati-nandana: Cows are also vegetarians. Prabhupada: Eh? Yasomati-nandana: Cows, they are also vegetarians. Prabhupada: Cows are vegetarian. That's all right. There are many animals, vegetarian. So there is no perfection of life unless we come to the point of Krsna consciousness. Simply by becoming vegetarian, simply by becoming nonviolent, simply by... These are all theories only. It has no value. Pusta Krsna: The argument is sometimes put forward that not everyone will be able to embrace Krsna consciousness fully. Therefore it may be better for them to accept some portion, like, for example, taking up vegetarianism or even doing hatha-yoga, or something like this is better than nothing. Prabhupada: No, that is not very essential. Essential is how to think of Krsna. Krsna says, man-mana bhava mad-bhaktah. He doesn't say that you become vegetarian. Dr. Patel: That said, tad-artham karma kaunteya mukta-sangah samacara: "You must do everything for Him, even eating." Prabhupada: Yes. Dr. Patel: That is vegetarianism. Prabhupada: Then, then you are... Then automatically he'll become vegetarian. Automatically he'll become vegetarian. If he takes Krsna prasadam, then he is vegetarian automatically. Pusta Krsna: So it may seem like these other things are stepping-stones to Krsna, but is it necessarily so? Prabhupada: No stepping-stone. This is the ultimate, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru, these four things. Unless you come to this point, there is no question of perfection. Prabhupada's Lectures Bhagavad-gita 1975 750206BG.HAW Krsna said, patram puspam phalam toyam yo me bhaktya prayacchati [bg 9.26]. Krsna said that "You give Me patram, means vegetables, flowers, fruits, and phalam, fruits, and some liquid, water or milk." Krsna does not say, "You give Me meat or egg or fish." No. Krsna can eat everything, He's all powerful, but He does not eat, although He is all powerful. He can eat everything. He can eat fire. That is another thing. But because we have to take prasadam, remnants of foodstuff, Krsna, therefore He says, "Give Me this: food grains, milk, or fruits and flowers." Prepared or unprepared, it doesn't matter. Krsna wants that. We... So far the Vaisnava is concerned, sometimes they come forward to fight with us: "Why we should be vegetarian?" No, no, we have no quarrel with the nonvegetarian. Let them eat at their risk. But because we recommend, "You take Krsna's prasadam," therefore we must be satisfied with this patram puspam phalam toyam, nothing more than that. Prabhupada's Lectures Srimad-Bhagavatam 1976 760506SB.HON Therefore we find so many varieties of foodstuff, varieties of taste. This is all within this material world. It is not that... Sometimes this morning we were talking about vegetarian and nonvegetarian. Our mission is not to make a nonvegetarian a vegetarian. No. Our mission is that "Either you are vegetarian or nonvegetarian, it doesn't matter. You become Krsna conscious." That is our mission. To become vegetarian is not very good qualification. It is better than the nonvegetarian, but that is not the ultimate solution. The ultimate solution is when you become a lover of God. That is ultimate solution. So we are not preaching this vegetarianism. Just like there are Jains or many other religious system, Buddhism. They are after making people vegetarian. But the law of nature is that one living entity is the food for another living entity. That is the law of nature. You will find even in the lower animals. They are eating one another. Prabhupada's Lectures General - 1971 710326LE.BOM A tiger has got the right to eat another animal. So we are not going to preach amongst the tigers that "You become vegetarian" or "You become Krsna conscious." That is not our business. Our business is that we are inducing, we are entreating, we are requesting people that "You take Krsna prasada." That is our business. To become vegetarian or nonvegetarian is not very big business. We do not admit that vegetarians are very much pious and nonvegetarians are not pious. No. Not like that. We say that everyone is impious who is not taking foodstuff offered to Krsna. That is our view. Anyone. Morning Walk Vrindaban, March 14, 1974 740314MW.VRN Hrdayananda: So in our varnasrama college the students that come to our college, they follow the four principles... They follow... Prabhupada: Four principles essential. Essential. But only the sudras or the ksatriyas... Just like ksatriyas, they have to learn how to kill. So practically, they should go to the forest and kill some animal. And if he likes, he can eat also. If he likes, he can eat also. Hrdayananda: What he kills. Prabhupada: Yes. But not from the slaughterhouse. Those who are ksatriyas, they can, they're allowed sometimes to eat meat. It is understood Bhima, Bhima also eating sometimes meat. Bhima. Amongst the Pandavas, only Bhima. Not others. So if the ksatriyas, they want to eat meat, they can be allowed on particular occasions. But they must go to the forest and kill the animal. Not that for meat-eating regular slaughterhouses should be maintained. This is all nonsense, degradation. If you want to eat meat, you go to the forest. And the sudras, they also sometimes eat meat. Or the candalas. Hrdayananda: But never the cow. Prabhupada: No. Cow... The sudras, they can take a goat and sacrifice before the deity, goddess Kali, and then eat. Nobody should be given unrestricted freedom to eat meat. Or wine. If one is adamant to drink wine, then there is Candi-puja, Durga-puja. That means restriction. That means restriction. Under certain condition. Similarly, sex life--marriage. That is also sex life, but under condition. Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 4: Chapter Seventeen, Text 25 :TRANSLATION Now, with the help of my arrows, I shall cut you to pieces and with your flesh satisfy the hunger-stricken citizens, who are now crying for want of grains. Thus I shall satisfy the crying citizens of my kingdom. PURPORT Here we find some indication of how the government can arrange for the eating of cow flesh. It is here indicated that in a rare circumstance when there is no supply of grains, the government may sanction the eating of meat. However, when there is sufficient food, the government should not allow the eating of cow's flesh just to satisfy the fastidious tongue. In other words, in rare circumstances, when people are suffering for want of grains, meat-eating or flesh-eating can be allowed, but not otherwise. The maintenance of slaughterhouses for the satisfaction of the tongue and the killing of animals unnecessarily should never be sanctioned by a government. As described in a previous verse, cows and other animals should be given sufficient grass to eat. If despite a sufficient supply of grass a cow does not supply milk, and if there is an acute shortage of food, the dried-up cow may be utilized to feed the hungry masses of people. According to the law of necessity, first of all human society must try to produce food grains and vegetables, but if they fail in this, they can indulge in flesh-eating. Otherwise not. As human society is presently structured, there is sufficient production of grains all over the world. Therefore the opening of slaughterhouses cannot be supported. In some nations there is so much surplus grain that sometimes extra grain is thrown into the sea, and sometimes the government forbids further production of grain. The conclusion is that the earth produces sufficient grain to feed the entire population, but the distribution of this grain is restricted due to trade regulations and a desire for profit. Consequently in some places there is scarcity of grain and in others profuse production. If there were one government on the surface of the earth to handle the distribution of grain, there would be no question of scarcity, no necessity to open slaughterhouses, and no need to present false theories about over-population. Letter to: Tusta Krishna Maharaja : 76-01-09 Bombay I am glad to know that a restaurant has been started. In Hawaii you may have seen that the restaurant is very successful. Now that boy's money will be used properly. Instead of maintaining a slaughterhouse, he is paying for prasadam distribution. Very good. But we should not waste time encouraging vegetarianism as opposed to meat eating. We want to encourage prasadam taking and that is automatically vegetarian. ======================== Room Conversation Indore, December 13, 1970 701213RC.IND Hamsaduta: George Bernard Shaw. Prabhupada: Yes. So they are becoming animals, animals eating animal flesh. Bernard Shaw was vegetarian. Devotee (6): Except he would take liver for his health. Prabhupada: Liver? Devotee (6): Yes. He used to take some liver periodically for his health. Prabhupada: Medicine. There are many liver extract preparations. Devotee (6): No, not liver extract. Maybe. I don't know exactly. But I know he used to take liver. Not cod liver oil or anything. Prabhupada: No, liver extract preparations there are many medicines. For anemic patient liver extract is recommended. Devotee (6): That's all right for us to take? Prabhupada: No, but if you are going to die, then you can take. Yamuna: Chant Hare Krsna. Prabhupada: When required for such trouble, if you are going to die, then, to save yourself, you can. Devotee (6): If that liver can be eaten raw... Prabhupada: If you are going to die. Not ordinary. If it is clear that without liver extract you shall die, you can take. Devotee (4): You cannot tell. You can't tell until you actually (indistinct) Prabhupada: Because when there is question of death it is recommended you may take anything to save your life. © 1991 by Bhaktivedanta Book Trust ************************** So, Srila Prabhupada is not a fanatic. He says that Prthu Maharaja has shown how *when there is no other food* the head of state can arrange for the eating of a dried up cow. He also states that when there is a question of death you may take anything to save your life -- the presumption being that you are saving your life for the purpose of continuing your devotional service in this body. However, if we find an apple under a tree and eat it without offering it to Krsna, there is certainly karma, because there is no reason that we cannot first offer that apple with love to the Supreme Lord. The apple which has first been offered to Krsna is decontaminated of karma -- so to speak, because having been offered with love to Krsna, it has Krsna consciousness added. And this can be pushed to even greater advantage, as it is in many Krsna conscious farm communities around the world. We have a friend that is raising 6 apple trees, from small shoots for the pleasure of his Jagannatha Deities. So this has even more Krsna consciousness added -- because when Krsna finally gets the apple it has years of loving devotional service packed into it. For this reason, in 1976, Srila Prabhupada told the devotees on the farm in France that "Anything grown in the garden, that is hundred times valuable than it is purchased from the market." your servant, Hare Krsna dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.