Psychological tests for sannyasis

[Guest guest]

> seriously, I think that the sannyasa ministry should consider

> incorporating (where such views concur with the vedic view as shown by

> Prabhupada's instructions) some of these principles in their deliberations

> with all renunciates under consideration for adopting the sannyasa order.

 

I appreciate the upheaval that sannyasi falldowns have caused and

certainly we must be more careful in training, approving and guiding

sannyasis. However formidable that may task be, it must be executed from the

spiritual platform based on Vedic sastras. When devotees associate too much

with materialists they also begin to put their faith in imperfect

materialistic tests. Mundane psychology was/is imperfectly conceived by

limited conditioned souls and is being administered and evaluated by

terribly defective methods. We should not base our spiritual leadership on

such flawed experiments. Freud expounded psychoanalysis but our spiritual

master assessed him as fool number one.

Srila Prabhupada was not in favor of such psychological tests as is

evident from the excerpts below. The primary principle of transcendence or

Krishna consciousness is the practitioner's firm faith in the words of

Krishna and the spiritual master. Will a psychological test reveal whether

or not a person will be faithful to his vows?

Next someone will suggest we examine a person's IQ in order to

determine whether he will be able to actually understand the scriptures.

Then another will suggest we should examine the parents of the candidate to

see if they are normal. Then skin color, nationality, gotra, caste. This is

the road to Vaisnava aparadha and mundane speculation. I think we should

keep clear distance from such practices.

 

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Devotee: Some psychologists are there. They are doing a laboratory test on

all the devotees.

Prabhupada: Our devotees also agreed to sit down like that?

Devotee: So we shouldn't bother with such tests?

Prabhupada: No

Devotee: You cannot understand the consciousness of a devotee by testing his

body or his mind.

Prabhupada: No, consciousness means... That is mental platform.

Consciousness is also in different platform, bodily consciousness, mental

consciousness, intellectual consciousness, then spiritual consciousness.

Krsna consciousness is spiritual consciousness...They are not on the

spiritual platform, so all their studies are useless. They are studying with

a pre-concept idea. It is called, in logic it is called prititio

principia(?). So it is useless. (Morning Walk: June 10, 1975)

 

Jayatirtha: He has been running various psychological tests on the devotees,

Dr. Gerson has been using psychological tests...

Prabhupada: What is this psychological test?

Jayatirtha: You can explain.

Dr. Gerson: Well, there are a variety of tests, and they have to do with the

kind of personality and intelligence and creativity that people in general

have, and I'm finding...

Prabhupada: Yes. This Hare Krsna movement is not dependent on any

personality…

Dharmadhyaksa: Srila Prabhupada? Damodara Prabhu has taken these tests

already, and maybe he can explain a little.

Prabhupada: Test? What is that?

Dharmadhyaksa: He's taken these psychological tests that Dr. Gerson is

giving, Damodara Prabhu. He has already...

Prabhupada: Who has tested?

Damodara: I was tested by Dr. Gerson and by his assistant.

Prabhupada: So what did you find in him?

Bahulasva: Prabhupada asked what you found out when you tested Damodara.

Dr. Gerson: Well, I haven't studied the tests yet. We're trying to test all

of the devotees here in the L.A. temple and that in itself is taking all of

my time. I haven't looked at his tests.

Dharmadhyaksa: But can you give some impressions...

Prabhupada: But that is not the process.

Dr. Gerson: My impressions of the devotees thus far, however, are that those

who have been in the movement much longer...

Prabhupada: Because even if you find somebody diseased, still, spiritual

consciousness is not hampered. That is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam,

ahaituky apratihata. Apratihata means without any impediment. There is no

checking. Just like in the Ganges water you will sometimes find the stool is

floating there. But that does not mean the Ganges water has become polluted.

It is practical. In Calcutta, in our childhood, I was taking bath in the

Ganges with my father. Many gentlemen regularly takes bath in the Ganges.

And the modern scientific method is: all the garbage, throw into the river.

So we were taking bath, and here is some stool floating. So we used to drive

away the stool and take bath. The stool is unable to pollute the Ganges

water. You will find in India still. The advanced gentlemen... "The dirty

water," they say, Ganges water. But you will find practically, that anyone

who is taking regular bathing in this dirty water, he is healthy. You will

find. It is very healthy. No disease touches him ordinarily. Of course, the

body is susceptible to disease, but generally, those who are taking regular

bath in the Ganges water, they are not diseased. You will find it

practically still. So as the stool floating in the Ganges water cannot

pollute the Ganges water, similarly, a devotee, even if you find

scientifically that he is crazy or he is diseased, that is not impediment.

Dr. Gerson: I don't expect to find it, and if I do, I understand...

Prabhupäda: No, even if you find... You cannot find it, but even if you

find, that is not impediment.

Bahulasva: Srila Prabhupada, what these tests will show is that when a

person came first he was doing some drugs or some nonsense, and now that

he's taken to Krsna consciousness, he has become so much more of a healthy

and wholesome person.

Prabhupada: That is the test. That is the real test, how we got so many

devotees from the hippie group, so how they have given up all their bad

habits. This is the real test. (Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and

devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles)