Guest guest Posted November 13, 2000 Report Share Posted November 13, 2000 > > > If there was a case that Dhruva rejected Narada's instructions > after > > initiation, then I would agree that Dhruva is an example of > denying > > the guru's order. Narada certainly was a guru, when he first spoke > to > > Dhruva, but he wasn't Dhruva's guru. > > Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. > > Thank you for pointing out the important point that surrender is > voluntary and cannot be legislated or enforced. > > I would like to ask a question if that is okay. I was wondering > about > Dhruva Maharaj's performing devotional service. At first he went to > the > forest, completely determined to see the Supreme Lord, by the > inspiration > of his mother Sunitha. Was he already aware of devotional service > because > of being raised as a King's son? >From the beginning of life means... Actually, our life begins at the age of five years. According to Canakya Pandita’s niti, it is said that the boys, the children, should be given complete freedom to do anything he likes up to five years, not more than that. Lalayet panca-varsani: “Up to five years a child should be given all freedom.” Never mind however miscreant he may be. But from five years to fifteen years—that means a period of ten years—tadayet. Lalayet panca-varsani tadayet dasa-varsani: “You should give all freedom to your child for five years, and then, next ten years, you should be very strict, very strict, so that the child may be very much afraid. And as soon as he attains sixteen years of age, then you should treat him like friend, not, I mean to say, so strictly.” These are the moral instruction by Canakya Pandita. Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.5.1, Pandal Lecture -- Bombay, January 12, 1973 It seems from this statement that Druva may not have previously been educated about devotional service in any formal manner. If his father was still pampering him and his brother, as we see from the story, it would seem that there had not been the introduction of the instructing stage. However, it is possible that the boy Druva had received some if not much instruction, since his father was somewhat negligent of him when he attempted to sit on his lap, which may indicate that he was in the second stage spoken of by Chanakya. > And how does Lord Krishna consider > devotional service to Him, before one meets his initiating spiritual > master? C.C. Madhya-lila 15.108 diksa-purascarya-vidhi apeksa na kare jihva-sparse a-candala sabare uddhare SYNONYMS diksa -- initiation; purascarya -- activities before initiation; vidhi -- regulative principles; apeksa -- reliance on; na -- not; kare -- does; jihva -- the tongue; sparse -- by touching; a-candala -- even the lowest of men, the candala; sabare -- everyone; uddhare -- delivers. TRANSLATION "One does not have to undergo initiation or execute the activities required before initiation. One simply has to vibrate the holy name with his lips. Thus even a man in the lowest class [candala] can be delivered. Read the purport for further details > Sunitha was his first spiritual guide, but it was not formal > initiation. Can a person advance within devotional service without an > initiating guru, but with instructions from a siksha guru? If it were not true that one could advance in devotional service without formal initiation, then there would be no use of preaching or engaging people in ajnata-sukriti (pious activities on the spiritual platform which are unknown to the performer), since no one could advance from the stage of sraddha (initial faith) to later stages such as sadhu sanga (saintly association), and bhajana-kriya (initiation), without being initiated (which is the third stage of advancement). However, one should have diksa in order to pass through anarta-nivriti (removal of the dirty things in the heart) and all subsequent stages leading up to prema (pure love of godhead). ys, Bhavasindhu dasa ______________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2000 Report Share Posted November 13, 2000 > > > If there was a case that Dhruva rejected Narada's instructions > after > > initiation, then I would agree that Dhruva is an example of > denying > > the guru's order. Narada certainly was a guru, when he first spoke > to > > Dhruva, but he wasn't Dhruva's guru. > > Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. > > Thank you for pointing out the important point that surrender is > voluntary and cannot be legislated or enforced. > > I would like to ask a question if that is okay. I was wondering > about > Dhruva Maharaj's performing devotional service. At first he went to > the > forest, completely determined to see the Supreme Lord, by the > inspiration > of his mother Sunitha. Was he already aware of devotional service > because > of being raised as a King's son? >From the beginning of life means... Actually, our life begins at the age of five years. According to Canakya Pandita’s niti, it is said that the boys, the children, should be given complete freedom to do anything he likes up to five years, not more than that. Lalayet panca-varsani: “Up to five years a child should be given all freedom.” Never mind however miscreant he may be. But from five years to fifteen years—that means a period of ten years—tadayet. Lalayet panca-varsani tadayet dasa-varsani: “You should give all freedom to your child for five years, and then, next ten years, you should be very strict, very strict, so that the child may be very much afraid. And as soon as he attains sixteen years of age, then you should treat him like friend, not, I mean to say, so strictly.” These are the moral instruction by Canakya Pandita. Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.5.1, Pandal Lecture -- Bombay, January 12, 1973 It seems from this statement that Druva may not have previously been educated about devotional service in any formal manner. If his father was still pampering him and his brother, as we see from the story, it would seem that there had not been the introduction of the instructing stage. However, it is possible that the boy Druva had received some if not much instruction, since his father was somewhat negligent of him when he attempted to sit on his lap, which may indicate that he was in the second stage spoken of by Chanakya. > And how does Lord Krishna consider > devotional service to Him, before one meets his initiating spiritual > master? C.C. Madhya-lila 15.108 diksa-purascarya-vidhi apeksa na kare jihva-sparse a-candala sabare uddhare SYNONYMS diksa -- initiation; purascarya -- activities before initiation; vidhi -- regulative principles; apeksa -- reliance on; na -- not; kare -- does; jihva -- the tongue; sparse -- by touching; a-candala -- even the lowest of men, the candala; sabare -- everyone; uddhare -- delivers. TRANSLATION "One does not have to undergo initiation or execute the activities required before initiation. One simply has to vibrate the holy name with his lips. Thus even a man in the lowest class [candala] can be delivered. Read the purport for further details > Sunitha was his first spiritual guide, but it was not formal > initiation. Can a person advance within devotional service without an > initiating guru, but with instructions from a siksha guru? If it were not true that one could advance in devotional service without formal initiation, then there would be no use of preaching or engaging people in ajnata-sukriti (pious activities on the spiritual platform which are unknown to the performer), since no one could advance from the stage of sraddha (initial faith) to later stages such as sadhu sanga (saintly association), and bhajana-kriya (initiation), without being initiated (which is the third stage of advancement). However, one should have diksa in order to pass through anarta-nivriti (removal of the dirty things in the heart) and all subsequent stages leading up to prema (pure love of godhead). ys, Bhavasindhu dasa ______________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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