denying the guru's order

[Guest guest]

> Yes, devotees got married and had hard times - to a great degree because

> the leadership of the society was heavily influenced by misogynist early

> disciples of Srila Prabhupada.

 

the statements were directly HDG Srila Prabhupada's, true he was trying to

encourage Brahmacaries to stay that way. Are you implying Prabhupada was a

misogynist because he spoke the way he did to them?

 

He clearly favoured men staying Brahmacari if at all possible, so their time

would be saved for self-realization, yet he (as Mahaprabhu) did not want his

men to be artificial about it.

 

He wanted all devotees in all ashramas to be honest about the condition of

the heart. To be honestly situated rightly in the ashrama they found

themselves fit for. That does not subtract the fact he clearly favoured men

staying brahmacari.

 

He was very loving towards his female disciples, that is shown by the

interviews with Yamuna, Govinda dasi etc, and now Mahamaya dasi's book.

 

Granted some of his early men were a bit excessive in their women hating,

grihastha hating mentality, (and now nost of those men who had that mood are

now grihasthas as a result).

 

Prabhupada was above and detached from all that. His views were more than

just traditionalist Gaudiya principles, there was no fault in his desiring a

strong detached Brahmacari outlook from a spiritual perspective of

dedication to Krsna and guru free from the hassles and entanglements the

attachemtns association of the opposite sex drives one to.

 

so many verses of shastra, SB & CC deal with avoiding the association of the

opposite sex. Do you want to dismiss all that as the talk of "misogynist's"?

 

Yet I also *do* hear the pain you mention here about the early disciples

being too far one sided. Dedication to celebacy should not mean becoming

hard hearted, That it was there in those early days of ISKCON was very true.

 

To tell you frankly, on occaision I was also put off by the rude behaviour

that many self-righteous former sannyasis irrationally inflicted on devotees

simply because they were housholders.

 

The reaction was in such proud men's inability to maintain their vrata, due

to offending such sincere housholder vaisnava's and vaisnavi's.

 

Nowdays things are different in public forums. Devotees *are quite a bit

more* sensitive.

 

I feel the society is sincerely addressing it's neglectful past. THe

Sannyasis and other renunciates have increased their sensitivity and share

many cordial, respectful relations with the grihastha community.

 

They are trying to assist them while being respectful about the need for

honoring dutiful housholders who admittingly have a tough time balancing

their domestic duties with their fragile spiritual lives.

 

> Time for the soicety to grow up a little and not apply

> instructions meant for immature bramacaris

 

Now don't allow your pain, to swing your mood unfairly too far in the

opposite direction!

 

I offered these stories, because the devotee *asked* for references, I gave

them to help him, no other thought was there.

 

yet you are trying to speculate on Prabhupada's intent by labeling it.

 

Because you weren't personally there to hear him speak Like I was, you like

to suggest his sincere emphatic instructions in both cases "were for

immature brahmacaries".

 

I was there * I heard it*. I beg to differ.

 

Prabhupada's instructions were sincerely offered by him to us. You can't

dismiss them or label them, just because you have no idea of his tone of

voice at the time and you unfortunately weren't there at the time...

 

His instructions to all of us at all times are not to be trampled upon or

dismissed arbitrarily.

 

Yes, no doubt all the men there were young in 1975 (I was only 19 then). But

hearing directly these sincere instructions directly from Srila Prabhupada's

lips has continued to inspire me for my entire lifetime in KC. It has also

inspired many brahmacaries around the globe I meet. That is not be

disregarded simply due to fact that Brahmacaries are in the 10% minority in

our movement.

 

The instructions apply fully to the Brahmacari ashrama *even today*.

 

> to capable adults.

 

Yet, non-the-less real 'Capability' is more than the externals of such

balance. It also means a verifiable mind and sense control by *all parties*

men and women in any devotional relationship.

 

In any ashrama one has to practice this according to his duties ordained for

that ashrama. Prabhupada's instructions are not outdated. They were meant

for the benefit of the particular brahmacari audience he was instructing.

 

ys MMDASBR