Meaning of 'mam janmani janmanisvare bhavatad bhaktir ahaituky

[Guest guest]

What I understand from SP's teachings is that a pure devotee, by virtue of

constantly seeing Krishna everywhere, does not distinguish between going

BTG and remaining in the material world. It is a distinction we make under

the perception of duality. So why would Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura be

either for or against the idea of going BTG, since he is already

experiencing Godhead continuously?

 

Something to contemplate on:

 

There is the famous pastime where Jiva Gosvami is chastised by Rupa Gosvami

for correcting the scholar guest (somepeople say this is Vallabhacarya) who

proposed a correction in Bhaktirasamrita Sindhu. Rupa Goswami uses the word

pisaca (ghost) in relation to mukti (liberation). The guest misunderstands

that Rupa Goswami is saying that liberation is a degraded idea and can be

likened to a ghost. Srila Jiva Goswami explains to him that Rupa Goswami

was likening the desire for liberation and not liberation itself to a

ghost, and the scholar acknowledges his mistake. Here we learn that a pure

devotee condemns the desire for liberation and not liberation itself.

(Pl correct me if I have quoted this story wrongly)

 

ys AND

 

 

At 12:07 PM 2/2/00 +0000, you wrote:

>[Text 2980490 from COM]

>

>Sri Sikshastaka

>

>(4) na dhanam na janam na sundarim

>kavitam va jagad-isa kamaye

>mama janmani janmanisvare

>bhavatad bhaktir ahaituki tvayi

>

>O almighty Lord! I have no desire to accumulate wealth, nor have I any

>desire to enjoy beautiful women, nor do I want any number of followers. What

>I want only is that I may have Your causeless devotional service in my

>life-birth after birth.

>

>--------------------------

>

>The meaning of this verse is explained by Bhaktivinoda Thakura in Gitavali

>in Song 4 [Jhanphi-Lopha]

>

>(3)

>nija-karma-guna-dose je je janma pai

>janme janme jeno tava nama-guna gai

>

>Whatever birth I may obtain due to the faults of my previous worldly

>activities, I pray that I may sing the glories of Your holy name birth after

>birth.

>

>(4)

>ei matra asa mama tomar carane

>ahoituki bhakti hrde jage anuksane

>

>This is my only desire, O Lord, and I submit it at Your lotus feet: That

>unmotivated devotion to You may constantly awaken in my heart.

>

>-------------------------

>

>[Note: Bhaktivinoda Thakura doesn't say that he doesn't want to go back to

>Godhead but that whatever birth he obtains due to his past karma he may sing

>the glories of the holy name. He is so humble that he feels he is not

>qualified to go BTG. But he is not against the idea of going BTG.]

>

>Comments?

>

>Your servant,

>Nayana-raJjana dAsa

[Guest guest]

Anuttama Prabhu writes:

 

> What I understand from SP's teachings is that a pure devotee, by virtue of

> constantly seeing Krishna everywhere, does not distinguish between going

> BTG and remaining in the material world. It is a distinction we make under

> the perception of duality. So why would Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura be

> either for or against the idea of going BTG, since he is already

> experiencing Godhead continuously?

 

But only in the spiritual world (not with this material body) can a pure

devotee experience the seven higher levels of prema and only on that

platform can one really enter into an intimate relationship of the Lord. So

Bhaktivinoda Thakura and Srila Prabhupada as well are actually in favour for

going BTG because it is only in the spiritual world that we can serve Krsna

perfectly.

 

Cc Madhya 19.178

 

prema vrddhi-krame nama--sneha, mana, pranaya

raga, anuraga, bhava, mahabhava haya

 

"The basic aspects of prema, when gradually increasing to different states,

are affection, abhorrence, love, attachment, further attachment, ecstasy and

great ecstasy.

 

> Something to contemplate on:

>

> There is the famous pastime where Jiva Gosvami is chastised by Rupa

> Gosvami for correcting the scholar guest (somepeople say this is

> Vallabhacarya) who proposed a correction in Bhaktirasamrita Sindhu. Rupa

> Goswami uses the word pisaca (ghost) in relation to mukti (liberation).

> The guest misunderstands that Rupa Goswami is saying that liberation is a

> degraded idea and can be likened to a ghost. Srila Jiva Goswami explains

> to him that Rupa Goswami was likening the desire for liberation and not

> liberation itself to a ghost, and the scholar acknowledges his mistake.

> Here we learn that a pure devotee condemns the desire for liberation and

> not liberation itself. (Pl correct me if I have quoted this story wrongly)

 

This quote is about liberation but we are talking about BTG. A devotee never

rejects the opportunity to go BTG. Because actually the Lord wants him there

more than he wants to go there. BVT's statement that if because of his past

karma the Lord wants him to go on revolving in the lower species of life, he

is ready for that provided he is given ahaituki bhakti in all the births he

is subjected to. This is to bring out the dainya or humility in our prayer.

 

Srila Prabhupada makes a point that a pure devotee will not even want to go

BTG in return for his devotional service if the Lord does not want it. This

was to illustrate a particular point that the pure devotee does not want

anything in exchange for his devotional service. But we all know that Srila

Prabhupada said that Lord wants so much that devotee returns back to Him. So

why should the devotee be against the idea. Infact he should ask for that

because he knows that this is what the Lord actually wants. And LC does that

in the very next verse in His Sikshashtakam:

 

ayi nanda-tanuja kinkaram

patitam mam visame bhavambudhau

krpaya tava pada-pankaja-

sthita-dhuli-sadrsam vicintaya

 

"`O My Lord, O Krsna, son of Maharaja Nanda, I am Your eternal servant, but

because of My own fruitive acts I have fallen into this horrible ocean of

nescience. Now please be causelessly merciful to Me. Consider Me a particle

of dust at Your lotus feet.' (Cc Antya 20.32)

 

I hope this makes things clear.

 

Your servant,

Nayana-rañjana d€sa

[Guest guest]

In the Isopanishad we have a verse (17) in which a devotee prays intensly to

give up this material body. Let this temporary body be burnt to ashes and

may the elements of this body again merge in the totality.

 

(This is not an easy thing. I tried it out. I know that each and every

thought I formulate before the Deyties have an enormous effect on the life.

For so many lifetimes I was praying for health and the good of my body-and

now the pray that it may die as soon as possible-and not just because I am

sick, suffering or very old. No, I am still in my twenties and in full

health.

For money, children, good partner and material success I could always pray,

cry out to god honestly, but now to quit this body? As a lip-prayer it is

easy, because this tongue is used to say everything, but to really mean it,

to make it my hearts-prayer, to say it with real feeling!)

 

 

Was this prayed out of frustration? He must have had enough of material life

and wants to commit suicide?

 

 

No!! Than it would never be in the shastras (isopanishad), but in our daily

newspapers!

 

It is a prayer for more service. He is so attached to that seva that he

wants it uninterrupted. (ahaituky apratihata, yenatma suprasidati).

But this material body needs sleep, sometimes food, one has to brush its

teeth etc.. so many boring things we have to do, maintaining work.

This is because this body is a creation, a vehicle to forget god. But a

body suitable for nitya seva is only a spiritual body.

Only there can I serve much more intensly. A material body is ideal for

suffering. But it is not made to experience intense devotional sentiments.

(This is the reason why sometimes great devotees leave their bodys. Not

because the heart stops beating or the karmic clock is on zero. But because

the material body can no more carry the bhava, it just cracks. It is to much

for him. Like a young hen cracks his egg.)