Bhagwan Swaminarayan to be god?

[Whitelotus019]

HARI BOLE!!

 

I was talking to a person who tells me about this person Bhagwan Swaminarayan who he considers to be GOD ...not an incarnation. He was telling me that most of these Swaminarayan do not like most iskcon devotees ..I have no heard about this person till now..can someone tell me who this person was? And why these groups of people do not like most of us devotees?

[Yegan]

If there might be any reason why they dont appreciate the iskcon devotees, I would think most probably because iskcon devotees do not consider Swaminarayan as GOD.

As who is swaminarayan , someone who is his fervent devotee might answer this question.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

HARI BOLE!!

 

I was talking to a person who tells me about this person Bhagwan Swaminarayan who he considers to be GOD ...not an incarnation. He was telling me that most of these Swaminarayan do not like most iskcon devotees ..I have no heard about this person till now..can someone tell me who this person was? And why these groups of people do not like most of us devotees?

 

They believe in Narayana (Vishnu). And want to goto Vaikuntha-loka. There is NO KRISHNA IN VAIKUNTHA.

[aGnani11]

 

HARI BOLE!!

 

I was talking to a person who tells me about this person Bhagwan Swaminarayan who he considers to be GOD ...not an incarnation. He was telling me that most of these Swaminarayan do not like most iskcon devotees ..I have no heard about this person till now..can someone tell me who this person was? And why these groups of people do not like most of us devotees?

 

Dear respected Bhakta,

 

Whomever you were talking to is probably only one out of many that "dislikes" the faithful of ISKCON. I am a disciple of Swaminarayan, and I have three very close friends whom I love very much who are followers of Srila Prabhupada.

 

There shouldn't be any hostility between us. We both originate from the Visitadvaita system of Sri Ramanuja.

 

The followers of Swaminarayan (Swami Sahajananda) believe him to be the last of the several incarnations of the divine. Swaminarayan himself affirmed the divinity of Sri Krishna. The bhakti tradition, however, advocates accepting an personal istadeva and offering pure bhakti towards Him as the mode of worship to God Supreme. Sri Krishna Bhagwan strictly advocated understanding the present-day manifestation of God, thus, the followers of Swaminarayan did the same, and accepted Swaminarayan as the manifestation of the divine.

 

This acceptance of Swaminarayan to be God didn't come out of nowhere. There are many instances where he said, both overtly and covertly, that he was the Lord of Akshardham. He performed leelas and attracted literally millions of followers from Gujarat, Kutch, and Rajasthan through both his attractive personality and profound knowledge of the Shrutis and Smrutis. During his teenage years, he took upon the role of a great yogi, mastering astanga-yoga and travelling through the entire length and width of India as a yogi searching for ashramas that exhibited a pure understanding of Vedic philosophy. He found such a place in the sampradaya of Swami Ramananda, a respected Vaishnav acharya in Gujarat. Historically, Swami Sahajananda also made a significant impact on the social scene by condemning superstitious practices, uplifting women's rights, and eradicating the barriers built up by the caste system.

 

The followers of Swaminarayan have no wish to become hostile with the faithful of other sects of Hinduism. We are a happy bunch who happily celebrate festivals that are universal to the broad traditions of the Sanatana Hindu Dharma. Currently, there are several sects within the Swaminarayan Sampradaya, the most significant being:

1. Vadtal diocese, headed by Acharya Rakeshprasadji,

2. Ahmedabad diocese, headed by Koshalendraprasadji, and

3. BAPS Swaminarayan Sanstha, headed by Pramukh Swamiji.

 

 

om shanti.

[gHari]

 

Sri Krishna Bhagwan strictly advocated understanding the present-day manifestation of God

I never got this impression from Lord Krishna. In fact, I get this impression: http://vedabase.net/sb/1/3/28 from the Bhagavatam.

 

Is there a statement from Sri Krsna's advent as Lord Krishna that suggests that He 'strictly advocated understanding the present-day manifestation of God'? I read the Siksapatri and found very nice very clear instructions to worship Sri Sri Radha-Krsna, and to read the Srimad-Bhagavatam which simply glorifies Sri Krsna as the Ultimate Truth, the source of all that is, including all avataras and expansions. To draw any other conclusion from the Bhagavatam would require a very furtile imagination.

[Guest guest]

Jai shri krishna

 

Did the devotees name lord swaminarayan as sahajanand swami or was that his child hood birth name? Why do the BAPS swaminarayan temples have small murtis of other gods, such as krishna, Hanuman etc and larger murtis for their gods and gurus. Why are the murtis of swaminarayan bhagwan and the gurus in gold at Akshardham(dehli) and marble for the other gods such as SHiva, Ram, Krishna etc?

[Guest guest]

 

Jai shri krishna

 

Did the devotees name lord swaminarayan as sahajanand swami or was that his child hood birth name? Why do the BAPS swaminarayan temples have small murtis of other gods, such as krishna, Hanuman etc and larger murtis for their gods and gurus. Why are the murtis of swaminarayan bhagwan and the gurus in gold at Akshardham(dehli) and marble for the other gods such as SHiva, Ram, Krishna etc?

 

 

That aint the same for the Original sect! Made by Sahajanand Swami Maharaj! Under Amdavad And Vadtal diocese! They have LAkshminarayan and Nar Narayan as Main Murti's and Lord Swaminarayan Lives in these as Pratyaksh, He talkes those who worship these murtis to Akshardham, His abode Where he resides.

 

Also Swami Ramanand Swami (incarnation of Uddhavji) was guru of Lord Swaminarayan (Sahajanand Swami) and it was He who named the Lord SAHAJANAND SWAMI.

 

SAHAJANAND SWAMI MAHARAJ NI JAY

[aGnani11]

Sahajanand Swami is is original sadhu name, given to him by his guru Ramanand Swami, a respected Vaishnav sadhu of the late 18th century. After he prescribed the Swaminarayan mantra, he became known throughout Gujarat, Kutch, and Rajasthan as Swaminarayan.

 

Also, I'm not familiar with idols of Radha and Krishna or Shiva and Parvati being smaller than the idols of Akshar and Purushottam. Every Swaminarayan mandir I've been to has equality in size, with Akshar-Purushottam being in the central shrine.

 

As for the Akshardham mandir in Delhi, they are golden because Swaminarayan Bhagwan is our istadeva. The divine couples of Radha and Krishna and Shiva and Parvati are there to show that we are based in the philosophy of the unity of Akshar and Purushottam, or Brahman and Parabrahman, i.e. the Servant-Master relationship between Bhakta and Bhagwan.

[Guest guest]

 

HARI BOLE!!

 

I was talking to a person who tells me about this person Bhagwan Swaminarayan who he considers to be GOD ...not an incarnation. He was telling me that most of these Swaminarayan do not like most iskcon devotees ..I have no heard about this person till now..can someone tell me who this person was? And why these groups of people do not like most of us devotees?

 

 

 

It's interesting you raise that point, because I distinctly remember saying that ISKCON followers do not like Swaminarayan Devotees. It's funny how you changed my words around to suit your faith. But that wouldn't be the first time you've done such a thing, eh Kimberley?

[Guest guest]

I know some Swaminarayan devotees visit this forum, so I wanted to ask a question about Swaminarayan beliefs on Liberation. I was reading the Swaminarayan website and the introduction to their beliefs and read:

 

 

The Vishishtadvait philosophy describes three types of souls. This was explained by Lord Swaminarayan and further clarified by Jeevanpran Abji Bapashree.

 

- Ekantik Muktas have the obstacle of their material bodies to overcome before they can become as one with Lord Swaminarayanbapa Swamibapa

 

- Param Ekantik Muktas dwell in the vicinity of the Lord in His Akshardham

 

- Anadi Mukta is the highest state of the souls. Anadi Muktas dwell within the murti of Lord Swaminarayanbapa Swamibapa in His Akshardham. However they are two distinct entities; the Lord - the master, and the Anadi Mukta - the mastered (eternally devoted soul)

 

Lord Swaminarayanbapa Swamibapa revealed that the souls become liberated as they enter the karan satsang, Shree Swaminarayan Gadi Sansthan, but that they attain one of the above states according to their deeds.

 

What does it mean to dwell within the Murti of Lord Swaminaranabapa Swamibapa?

[Guest guest]

Another thing I read, perhaps the most disturbing!

 

 

In the Vachanãmrut [bhugol-Khagol], while explaining the importance of this rare and priceless human birth, Bhagwan Swaminarayan says,

 

A jiva squanders its human body, which it receives after 35,000,000 prãkrut-pralays (i.e. 10,886,400,000,000,000,000,000 human years), for the sake of vain worldly pleasures, and by the refuge of a false guru. Consequently, it has to suffer the torments of Yam and the agonies of the pits of narak. Moreover, it receives another human birth in a place where liberation is attainable only after passing through the sufferings of the cycle of 8.4 million life forms, i.e. after another 35,000,000 prãkrut-pralays. This is the interval before one receives a human birth again.

Therefore, O brother, having understood this today, and having sought the refuge of the Sadguru Sant – the granter of liberation – and having kept your body, indriyas and antahkaran in accordance with his wish, strive for the benefit of your ãtmã and reach the abode of God. If you do not realise this fact today and waste this human body, which is instrumental in attaining liberation, you will have to wait for the aforementioned time before you receive another chance like this. Only after such suffering, and only at the end of that interval will you receive another opportunity to attain liberation, and that too if you strive for it. If you do not, you will not attain liberation. This is a fundamental principle. The wise should ponder over this.

 

How can this be! people have had past life human memories from recent time periods, so we know reincarnation can happen in a human body before a zillion years passes.

 

Here are some documented cases of human reincarnation in India, that took place very recently:

education.vsnl.com/reincarnation/cases.html

 

So how could it take 10,886,400,000,000,000,000,000 human years to receive another human birth! that number is inconceivable.

[ramkish42]

 

Another thing I read, perhaps the most disturbing!

 

 

 

How can this be! people have had past life human memories from recent time periods, so we know reincarnation can happen in a human body before a zillion years passes.

 

Here are some documented cases of human reincarnation in India, that took place very recently:

education.vsnl.com/reincarnation/cases.html

 

So how could it take 10,886,400,000,000,000,000,000 human years to receive another human birth! that number is inconceivable.

 

I am not a swaminarayan sect vaishnava but a visishtadvaiti, hence can answer it.

 

The idea in which it is said is a general rule like after missing a human life, a soul suffers in hell or enjoys in heaven for some period, then based on its karma starts its cycle as a living thing on earth. By sticking to its karma, it upgrades and becomes human.

 

There are more possibility that many years are consumed in this transit, however specific number seems to be unwarranted by srutis, but as a statement of a guru, for that sect it holds validity

 

Jai shree krishna

[Guest guest]

 

I am not a swaminarayan sect vaishnava but a visishtadvaiti, hence can answer it.

 

The idea in which it is said is a general rule like after missing a human life, a soul suffers in hell or enjoys in heaven for some period, then based on its karma starts its cycle as a living thing on earth. By sticking to its karma, it upgrades and becomes human.

 

There are more possibility that many years are consumed in this transit, however specific number seems to be unwarranted by srutis, but as a statement of a guru, for that sect it holds validity

 

Jai shree krishna

 

I know about the possibility of reincarnating in a lower form, and also spending some time in astral purgatories inbetween lives.. but the "10,886,400,000,000,000,000,000" years is off the chart, insanely long. Several Mahapralayas would occur during such time! I have never heard any Swami or sect speak of such a gigantic number when speaking about reincarnation.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

I think there maybe a 'zero' missing.

[Guest guest]

are there any swaminarayans here

[Guest guest]

First of all the quote the guest ahs made about the Mukt and abode of the Devotees of Lord Swaminarayan is from a cult which has diverted from the original after their sect leaders have either had problems with following rules of the original doctrine. This is their philosophy. None of these such words like "swamibapa, shreejibapa", exist in any original text of the origina following.

 

I suggest you look for your references which exist under the original sampraday.

[Guest guest]

 

I think there maybe a 'zero' missing.

 

[gHari]

 

are there any swaminarayans here

There may be some here, but the questions are asked in a way that they should not be answered.

[Guest guest]

 

 

The idea in which it is said is a general rule like after missing a human life, a soul suffers in hell or enjoys in heaven for some period, then based on its karma starts its cycle as a living thing on earth. By sticking to its karma, it upgrades and becomes human.

 

I have heard those who go to heaven are always reborn as humans when their stay in the celestial planets is done. And I've heard those who go to the hellish planets, come back as animals. Now keep in mind it might not literally mean they always come back as literal animals, it also may mean one can come back with an animal nature in a human body.

 

Much of the puranic descriptions of hell clearly has to be hyperbole. The Astral body does not suffer physically, but it can suffer emotionally. As near-death experiences have reported.

[patel03]

 

Sahajanand Swami is is original sadhu name, given to him by his guru Ramanand Swami, a respected Vaishnav sadhu of the late 18th century. After he prescribed the Swaminarayan mantra, he became known throughout Gujarat, Kutch, and Rajasthan as Swaminarayan.

 

Also, I'm not familiar with idols of Radha and Krishna or Shiva and Parvati being smaller than the idols of Akshar and Purushottam. Every Swaminarayan mandir I've been to has equality in size, with Akshar-Purushottam being in the central shrine.

 

As for the Akshardham mandir in Delhi, they are golden because Swaminarayan Bhagwan is our istadeva. The divine couples of Radha and Krishna and Shiva and Parvati are there to show that we are based in the philosophy of the unity of Akshar and Purushottam, or Brahman and Parabrahman, i.e. the Servant-Master relationship between Bhakta and Bhagwan.

 

well said....

[mac00uk]

 

Sahajanand Swami is is original sadhu name, given to him by his guru Ramanand Swami, a respected Vaishnav sadhu of the late 18th century. After he prescribed the Swaminarayan mantra, he became known throughout Gujarat, Kutch, and Rajasthan as Swaminarayan.

 

Also, I'm not familiar with idols of Radha and Krishna or Shiva and Parvati being smaller than the idols of Akshar and Purushottam. Every Swaminarayan mandir I've been to has equality in size, with Akshar-Purushottam being in the central shrine.

 

As for the Akshardham mandir in Delhi, they are golden because Swaminarayan Bhagwan is our istadeva. The divine couples of Radha and Krishna and Shiva and Parvati are there to show that we are based in the philosophy of the unity of Akshar and Purushottam, or Brahman and Parabrahman, i.e. the Servant-Master relationship between Bhakta and Bhagwan.

 

Why isnt the Akshar Purushottam Sampraday mentioned in the original Saminarayan sampraday text? Does Lord Swaminarayan clearly mention 'Akshar Purshottam Upasna'? Why isnt it included in the Sikshapatri or any other authnetic text? In the very 1st VAchnamrut Lord Swaminarayan states Himself that to get Atyantik Kalyaan one must be the Ashrit of teh Dharmkul, So why arent the ollowers of BAPS? Also why has the original Arti and many stutis changed? Why do BAPS not follow the Desh Vibhaag no Lekh, which was dictated by Lord Swaminarayan and writen by Shatanand Muni within teh Satsangi Jivan. This stemnet clearly shows that Dharmvanshi Acharyas should be the head of teh sampradays. Why do BAPS fail to comply with such authentic text?

Why do BAPS worship murtis of saints along with GOD? This in no circumstance should be allowed.

[akshar]

We don't actually worship our gurus, we only ask them for guidance and blessings in life. Um...He has mentioned akshar-purshottam, he established with his paramhansas that his perfect ideal devotee was gunatitanand swami. We don't. Vartal and all the other minor, non-existence swaminarayan sampradayas dont follow authentic text.

[akshar]

We don't like you becoz you insult us too much!! You would hatttte it if i said krishna was a ordinary man (by no means he isn't)

[akshar]

Im swaminarayan.

[Guest guest]

Are you an impersonalist? Why would you claim to be Swaminarayan?

 

 

Im swaminarayan.