honestly speaking

[Guest guest]

What is speak of establishing Varnasrama, the GBC is not able to take a strong

action against a transgression in the basic moral principles by a guru & GBC

leader. If it goes on like Ameyatma Prabhu predicts that very soon our Society

will be filled with deviations, sahajiyism, confusion & complete anarchy. Can

any GBC provide an answer to the the points posed by Ameyatma Prabhu below?

 

> >"Rohini Suta Prabhu, an initiating spiritual master and a GBC zonal

> >secretary for parts of Germany, the CIS and the former

> Yugoslavia Republic,

> >has notified the GBC Executive Committee and the leaders of

> ISKCON in Europe

> >of his desire to change from brahmacari to grihastha ashrama. [...] It is

> >that Rohini Suta Prabhu's intended wife had been first of all

> his initiated

> >disciple. Hence the proposed union goes against a

> well-established ethical

> >principle that prohibits marriage between a guru and a disciple.

> >[...]

 

>From Ameyatma Prabhu:

 

DAMN. Stop right there. It just doesn't go against ethics. It goes

Agaisnt the teachings of ISKCON's Founder-Acharya. It goes against the

teachings of our whole Sampradaya. It goes against the principles of our

entire philosophy of what a guru is. Who are the GBC trying to fool? They

are too weak to stand up and rule ISKCON according to ethical principals

what to speak of Srila Prabhupad's teachings. Or, they have no idea what our

philosophy is or what the hell they are doing.

 

> >Nevertheless, in this particular case,

 

The problem is, when EVER it is a problem with an authorized diksha guru it

is "always" a Special case. So they ditch Prabhupad's words on the floor

while they break all the rules -again- for this new "special" case. (I just

finished a big Feast at the temple - so I must be feeling my Wheaties - I'm

a bit more testy then usual)

 

> >we see that this proposed

> >marriage, in spite of its irregular aspect, may still be able to serve in

> >the advancement of Krishna consciousness.

 

AAAhhh!! Pinch me, am I awake or is this some hellish nightmare? A

(spiritual) father is having sex with his (spiritual) daughter and our

ill-lust-stree-ous GBC are telling us that such an immoral and disgusting

act "MAY" actually serve in the "Advancement" of "Krishna Consciouness" ? ?

 

I read this, word for word, to my wife and the first thing she did was start

laughing. Then she said, very soberly and upset, "What is wrong with them,

how can they even think that sanctioning such a thing as a father marrying

his own daughter could in any way help in the advancement of our spiritual

society" She said, "It is such a demoniac act, for a father to marry his

own daughter, where is this GBC at?". Since the GBC now allow women on the

GBC, I therefore petition that my wife be made an official GBC. She has

actually has got more intelligence then what I am am reading from the rest

of them.

 

> >Both parties are mature

> >individuals who sincerely desire to progress in Krishna

> consciousness and to

> >give Krishna consciousness to others [...] In general, Rohini Suta Prabhu

> >may

> >continue to give spiritual instruction and guidance to his initiated

> >disciples

> >and others who have taken spiritual shelter of him."

 

Prabhupad (speaking about some other bogus guru):

> >"Even he has no moral sense,

> apart from

> >spiritual knowledge. According to human social constitution, one

> should not

> >have sex life with daughter, with mother and sister. And what is this? If

> >one has sex life with daughter, then where is the moral life?"

(Room Conversation, May 31st, 1974)

 

Neither does our whole GBC have any Moral Sense. This incident shows, plain

and clear, that our entire GBC is bereft of all moral sense, apart from

lacking in spiritual knowledge. One of them engages in this immoral and

irreligious and sick act, and the rest of the GBC SANCTION it. They give

their FORMAL APPROVAL to such a thing. KNOWINGLY and Purposefully our GBC

sanction this, and then, to make it really laughable, they actually say that

this may actually serve in the "Advancement" of Krishna Consciousness.

 

SanKirtan, Book Distribution, Prasad Distribution, adherence to moral

religious principles, these are the things that serve to advance our Krishna

Conciousness. But, our GBC are saying that spiritual fathers who lay with

and marry their spiritual daughters, these acts are now right up there with

Glorifying the Holy Name. It is right up there with Distributing Prabhupad's

books. Great way to go, GBC, you have really put thy big foot in thy big

mouth this time.

 

These statements and actions by the GBC are turning this ISKCON branch of

our sampradaya and philosophy into a total foolish sham. Where are those

who will RULE According to PRABHUPAD LAW, not the GBC's weak concoctions? I

wish that that I could become a GBC I would smash this nonsense. Devotees

must stand up and demand a stronger and more potent GBC.

 

Basu Gosh said:

> In fact this is a mistake by the GBC... but...

>

> What else could they do? Many, many disciples of Rohini Suta's would've

> been enraged...

 

Oh, never mind they enrage their own god-brothers and Prabhupad's disciples.

And, what to speak they seem to care less if they enrage Srila Prabhupad !!

What about the Rage of NrsinghaDev ?

 

What else could they do? Simple. Rule According To PRABHUPAD LAW.

Prabhupad Uvac. That is the Alpha and the Omega of our society. If they

are thinking they have done this to avoid some repercussions and fall-out,

it just goes again to show how uselss they have become.

 

Time after time after time after time, when a Diksha Guru, or even sometimes

a GBC, falls down they take the side of throwing out Prabhupad's teachings

and shastra in favor of making so many special case concessions.

 

I am FED UP with it. Same thing with Hari Kesh, Jayatirtha, Bhavananda.

When a diksha guru falls down, they make it a "Special Case", DAMN Right it

is a special case, if a guru falls, they should be dealt with the most

harshly, the most strict.

 

If a regular devotee falls, the more advanced devotees must be merciful,

compassionate and lenient. As Prabhupad was with us. But, if a Temple Pres

falls they should be dealt with midly harsh. He is a leader. Leaders must

set the higher standard, they must be "Above Suspicion".

 

And, if it is a GBC, oh, they must be very strict and harsh. They are the

top most leaders of our society, they must be held to the highest standards.

 

But, if it is a Diksha Guru falls, then the GBC must be the MOST Heavy and

most STRICT. The post of guru means he is the completely pure, fully

self-realized and advanced, and topmost religiously moral. He is the teacher

of moral and religious principles, the teacher of spiritual life, the

teacher of spiritual purity and potency. Therefore the teacher of these

things, he must be held to the most HIGEST and Most Strict adherence. If one

is teaching math, then he has to be a good mathematician. If one is teaching

spiritual life, he must be expert. Otherwise the post of Guru becomes so

watered down, so weak. The post has become principleless, moralless and

devoid of spiritual potency.

 

Guru, especially Vaishnav Guru, he is to be the most pure. It is the duty

of our GBC to regulate the post of Diksha guru according to the MOST strict

and highest standards possible. Bar none. NO EXCEPTIONS. NO SPECIAL CASE.

 

If the GBC were to follow like that, then I would support the ISKCON guru

system of diksha. If the GBC were to be strong and demand that the post of

diksha guru only be given to those who uphold the highest standards of

purity, of religious moral principles, of spiritual advancement, then I will

fully support the GBC's diksha guru program. But, I cannot give any such

support to such a fallen and decrepit system we have today. It is exactly

incidents like this that turn me away from the ISKCON guru system.

 

If a girl's parents can no longer raise the girl and I take in the girl and

adopt her as daughter and raise her as my daughter, how can I then turn

around and ask to marry her and have sex with her? That would be demoniac.

Completely irreligious and immoral. When a guru accepts a girl as his

disciple and offers her diksha, he is adopting her as his daughter. He

cannot turn around and ask to now have sex with his own daughter.

 

With all due respects to my God Brother, Rohini Suta, for him to have

desired this and asked for this is a very grave mistake, a very grave fall

down, and shows a complete lack of the understanding of what a guru is, of

what a guru's position and responsibilities are. If he understood them

properly he could never have allowed his mind to consider such a degraded

thing.

 

But, worse then his fall down is the fact that the whole GBC has shown they

also have lost all their proper understanding because they have sanctioned

that a "guru" can have sexual relations with his own daughter, and yet

remain authorized to act as guru and spiritual guide to his disciples.

This is a lack of any spiritual understanding on the part of the GBC.

 

We need a GBC who will Rule according to PRABHUPAD UVAC. And be fully

prepared to hold themselves, and especially the gurus, to the highest

standards. No exceptions. Strict, Pure. Then it is glorious. Then the GBC

will again become an illustrious GBC.

 

They are concerned that his disciples will become enraged? You mean, they

rule ISKCON out of fear? Either way their will be fall out.

 

What else could they do? For one, they tell his disciples, "Guru means to

be Pure and to follow and teach the highest moral standards". Your guru has

fallen, he is engaging in disgusting immoral behavior. Our duty as GBC is

we must preserve the post of Guru and GBC to adhere to the HIGHEST standard

of morality, the Highest Standards of Purity. Therefore, we have no choice

but to STRONGLY Chastise Rohini. As a devotee who has taken up the grave

responsibility of Guru, or social leader, spiritual leader. He accepted this

grave and responsible post to be guru. He knows his duty would be to adhere

to and set the highest of all standards. He has FAILED. Therefore, the

duty of the GBC is that we must remove him as GBC, and withdraw our sanction

of him as any longer representing this most noble and pure Sampradaya as a

bona-fied Diksha guru. Those who have taken initiation from him are

recognized to have been properly initiated into this Sampradaya, they now

must seek direct shelter from HDG ACBSP.

 

Why can't our GBC lead us like this? Why are they so weak? And, if his

disciples reject that, then so be it. That is when we can justifiably say,

"What else can be done?"

 

But, I will tell you now, by taking this most disgusting and weak inaction,

to appease some temporary mis-directed anger, they have again planted the

seeds for even more problems in the future. By "SANCTIONING" someone who

is engaging in IMMORAL behavior to remain acting as a Diksha guru, I am at a

lost for words. It is pathetic. Simply pathetic. It proves that the GBC

have no idea what Guru means. How cheap and low they have dragged the

meaning of guru. What is the use of such ISKCON - GBC authorized Gurus?

 

Rather then holding our ISKCON gurus to the highest and most pure moral and

spiritual standards, they have dragged the standard of guru into the gutter.

What a dis-service to Srila Prabhupad and our whole Sampradaya. The GBC

should be kicked. All that will come of this is more and more totally

misguided and philosophically off grand-disciples who will be so confused

and mixed up. The guidance the GBC is giving is that they are authorizing

the disciples to still accept as a "guru" a person who has fallen and living

such an immoral life. What sort of guidance is this. And to top it off,

the GBC are saying that this might even help advance our Krishna

Consciousness.

 

These poor souls are in the most need of strong guidance. They need to be

told, in no uncertain terms, exactly what is the high and pure standards of

a real guru, a leader or GBC. But, the GBC have just told them, hey, look,

you can have sex with and marry your own daughter in ISKCON, and not only

can you still be accepted as a devotee in good standing, and you can not

only be a top most leader, a GBC, but you can even act in the most highest

capacity of authorized bona-fied guru. Isn't ISKCON really something? Hey,

our gurus are just as good as any other bogi-yogi nonsense. Hey, Prabhupad

used to get outraged about such things, but, our GBC is so much more

advanced that they see such immoral and irreligious actions as being able to

advance us in our Krishna Consciousness.

 

Could some one forward this to some GBC for me and ask them to let the whole

GBC see it. I think they need to know not everyone support all of these

idiotic decissions.

 

ys ameyatma das

 

> The best thing would be to convince him to "step aside"... which the GBC

> obviously hasn't done.

[Guest guest]

> If it goes on like Ameyatma Prabhu predicts that very soon our Society

> will be filled with deviations, sahajiyism, confusion & complete anarchy.

 

Of which he is a prime example.

[Guest guest]

On 4 Sep 2000, Madhava Gosh wrote:

 

> > If it goes on like Ameyatma Prabhu predicts that very soon our Society

> > will be filled with deviations, sahajiyism, confusion & complete anarchy.

>

> Of which he is a prime example.

 

I did not dare...