Thread 4: A prayer, ---honestly speaking

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>According to shastra then all the grihasthas who are 50 and above in ISKCON

>should take Vanaprastha and go to forest (if they are Dhiras) or (if they

>are Narottamas), they must follow the Sannyasis and go door to door

>preaching. There is no question of managing any Temple or any other

>administrative position.

 

No, this is simply a misunderstanding. In Kali-yuga Vaishnavas do not go to

the forest. After so many years of training they should be in the cities

preaching to the conditioned souls who need their mercy. And the best way to

do that is to have a center where people can come regularly. As Prabhupada

said, what benefit will they get from your one hour talk and then you go

away?

A sannyasi may get the "ball rolling" but the grhasthas will always maintain

the center. That has always been our experience in ISKCON. I believe that is

also the case in Singapore, is it not?

 

> If the GBC must resign immediately, then all the

>TPs who are above 50 must resign immediately. Can you please enlighten me

>how we can implement this immediately?

 

The resignation of the GBC was proposed due to failure in performing their

duty. It has nothing to do with age! Why do you not understand this simple

point?

Moreover, 50 is simply an arbitrary number. Srila Prabhupada, for example,

did not take vanaprastha until age 63, when he went to Jhansi. To try and

force people to take vanaprastha is not only unhealthy, it is fanatical.

 

Krishna consciousness is the process of self-realization, whereby each

individual knows when it is the best time for him to take the next step in

the process. Perhaps you know the verse:

raja-vidya raja-guhyam

pavitram idam uttamam

pratyaksavagamam dharmyam

susukham kartum avyayam (Bg. 9:22)

"This knowledge is the king of education, the most secret of all secrets. It

is the purest knowledge, and because it gives direct perception of the self

by realization, it is the perfection of religion. It is everlasting, and it

is joyfully performed."

Bhakti yoga is the topmost process because "it gives direct perception of

the self by realization." If one has not made any advancement in Krishna

consciousness then he is bereft of realization and direct perception of the

self. Thus, he remains under illusion still, trying to implement the

instructions of sastra without being able to apply the knowledge according

to desh, kala, patra. In this way he tries to force others to comply with

his own understanding, which is simply a disturbance to the society.

 

 

>> Thirdly, we do not believe that sannyasis can understand grhasthas, nor

>> should they have to understand.

>

>By same logic Grihasthas cannot understand sannyasis, nor should they have

>to understand.

 

Yours is false logic. The process is that a man remains brahmacari until he

honestly recognizes that grhastha ashram is more suitable for him. Thus,

after accepting grhastha ashram, he is always well aware of the difference,

having experienced sannyasi life style as a brahmacari although not able to

maintain it.

 

On the other hand, a sannyasi who has already gone through the grhastha

ashram is also well aware of the grhastha lifestyle, but it is extremely

dangerous for him to even think of associating with grhasthas.

The conclusion is that since every society is composed of 99% grhastha, it

logically follows to have grhasthas in charge of making life decisions. They

are just as well versed as the sannyasis in sastra and its implementation

according to desh, kala, patra, and they don't run the risk of totally

disturbing the status quo with a falldown, as a sannyasi always does.

 

>>But since society means 99% grhastha,

>

>I do not know where you got that fantastic figure of 99%, but logically it

>should be 25% in a Varnashram society. Unless all our Grihasthas want to

>cling on to their administrative positions and decide to leave this world

>as Grihasthas. But according to Shastra they have to follow in the

>footsteps of Yudhisthira Maharaja.

 

Society means grhastha. Sannyasa is not part of society. They are socially

dead. Brahmacaris also remain aloof from society until that time when they

decide to get married. They enter society and take up a profession to

support the family and everything that entails. Vanaprasthas are almost

finished with society and are making preparations to leave once and for all.

 

In addition, it may be that some people will never take sannyasa. My

godbrother, Usika dasa, wanted to take sannyasa at age 70, but the GBC

refused to give it to him. He left his body without ever getting GBC

sanction. So the GBC will not award sannyasa according to age. Indeed,

sastra forbids sannyasa is Kali-yuga except for the extremely rare few.

 

But how is it you do not understand these things? If you are a married man

struggling to support a family then you would surely understand. So, I have

to conclude that you are a young brahmacari, otherwise how could you not

understand how society functions. As soon as you get married though, that

illusion should rapidly disappear.

 

Now you mention varnashram dharma. Fine. This is what the senior devotees in

this movement are trying to implement within ISKCON as Srila Prabhupada

instructed. Then we will truly have a situation where the sannyasis will

only travel and preach and grhasthas can manage world wide affairs.

 

yours in service, vaiyasaki dasa...