Thread 4: A prayer, ---honestly speaking

[Guest guest]

>Please try to quote Srila Prabhupada, the guru maharaja of ISKCON. Your

>words are manufactured hellish speculations.

 

Dear Janeswara Prabhu,

 

PAMHO. AGTSP. All Glories To Your Grace.

 

Thank you very much for the quotes on Varnasrama College. I asked you

earlier, to post for my better understanding, which you did not post. Now

you have posted, I understand perfectly the words of our founder Acarya.

They are crystal clear. How can anyone not understand.

 

Now coming to my comments, so far on this subject, none of them are mental

speculations. I have quoted Srila Prabhupada only in all my texts.

 

Now I donot understand why you are seeing the difference, when we are

talking the same, subject.

 

The quotes which you have provided are for those devotees, who are not not

engaged in any work, but just chanting, and they have to be trained in some

skills, according to their nature/aptitude.

 

So when they go to varnasrama college, they learn skills to fall into some

Varna, Brahmana, Ksatriya, Vaisya and Sudra.

 

Now I am taslking about those people, who are already, have their varna

fixed, like some police man or a military man, who is already a ksatriya.

He is already marching left, right but he does not know Krishna and he does

not chant Krishna. When such a person is admitted to our Varnasrama

college, we don't have to train him in his varna because he is already

trained. So he has to be imparted with spiritual knowledge, and make him

chant Hare Krishna.

 

All I am saying is our Varnasrama College should not just teach some skills

of different Varnas, but they should also teach devotional principles.

 

You have given examples/quotes of "Devotee who has no Varna".

 

I have given quotes and examples of "persons who have Varna but no Devotion"

 

I am realising that we are looking at the same thing from different angles.

 

You are saying A+B=C

 

I am saying B+A=C.

 

You are talking about a person who is already a devotee who has no varna and

ofcourse he has to be given varna.

 

I am talking about a person who has varna but no devotion and ofcourse he

has to be given devotion.

 

So our Varnasrama colleges, have to teach both devotional principles and the

varna skills. Teaching only one and leaving the other is like taking care

of only the cage and not the bird, or the other way taking care of only the

bird but not the cage. As long as the bird is in the cage both cage and the

bird have to be taken care of.

 

It was a very nice discussion, and I understood many principles of

Varnasrama Dharma System, by your blessings. Thank you so much.

 

Thank you very much for your continued blessings,

 

Hare Krishna,

Your humble servant,

Bhadra Govinda Das.

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhadra Govinda Prabhu,

 

Thank you for your questions:

 

>Question No 1:

>

>If this is already clear (even to freshers like me) and ongoing, why are

>some devotees duplicating this job. Again talking about the samething.

>What are the reasons? Definitely anybody will be confused.

 

This is a good question. One of the answers is that it is difficult for

gurus to correct and/or discipline other gurus. Objective persons outside

the guru clique can have a clearer vision and do a better job.

Secondly, we accept sastra that sannyasis should travel and preach. They

should not stay in one place for more than a few days at a time. Thus there

is no question of managing a worldwide society for them, which means getting

entangled in grhastha issues.

Thirdly, we do not believe that sannyasis can understand grhasthas, nor

should they have to understand. But since society means 99% grhastha,

therefore our present GBC body, comprised mainly of sannyasis, has been

ineffective in their management and decision-making, especially since Srila

Prabhupada is no longer present to guide them.

 

>Let us say some of us do not have faith in the above GBC restructuring task

>force, and you start another conference, another task force. Similarly if

>I or anyone feels that this is also not doing a proper job (if you can

>*feel* that the GBC restructure task force is not doing a proper job, I can

>also *feel* the restructure conference is not doing a proper job.

 

It is not a question of either/or as you put it. They can come up with their

solutions and we can come up with ours. Two heads are better than one. But,

our conference was started because we wanted to open up our approach to the

entire ISKCON membership, not just keep it restricted to a select group.

Already we have seen the benefit of such a policy. Moreover, a solution that

has the input and weight of the grass roots behind it is infinitely stronger

than a solution from a select, chosen few.

 

> It has become a free for all society. So some body else starts some other

>confereence. If the second layer in management structure does not respect

>the first layer of management, the third layer of management also need not

>respect the second layer, so on and so forth. yad yad acarati sresthas.).

> Will this not create factions, in the society?

 

I have not seen this happening. What I have seen happen is that previous

reform was not implemented, therefore the first layer of management lost all

respect and credibility. We are simply trying to restore credibility and

respect to the GBC body. Our position is that we feel their structure is

detrimental to the society. We want to fulfill Srila Prabhupada's vision for

varnashrama dharma, which we believe is the solution to the existing

problem. You are entitled to not agree with our idea, but you can at least

respect our sincerity in the attempt.

 

>My second humble question:

>

>What is the example you second generation disciples are setting to us grand

>disciples if you do not trust each other, sit together and talk to each

>other.

 

Another good question. We are talking to each other. We have started a

conference that is open to the entire society. You have also participated

and we are all talking to each other. Unfortunately, our history

demonstrates that the GBC body was the group that didn't trust each other.

Of course, you may not be aware of this, but I assure you it is true.

 

>Not only that, but openly blaspheme each other. How should a new

>Bhaktha perceive these things.

 

I have not seen blasphemy on our conference. Kindly show me what you

consider blasphemy. Perhaps you are perceiving the truth to be blasphemy.

For example, Prabhupada said that telling a thief that he's a thief is not

fault-finding, yet his children might accuse you of blasphemy. This is an

example of perception.

 

 

>I went to my son's primary school, the other

>day for the parent councilling. Even the Karmi school teachers were

>telling, that the parents should not fight with each other, and sort out

>family affairs in a soberly manner. Even if you have differences you

>should fight or sort it out not in front of the children, but at a

>different place, and time.

 

First of all you are not a child, neither are the other grand-disciples.

Actually, we are getting some very mature insights from some of them.

Secondly, if we open the discussion to allow everybody a voice then a

disagreement may appear to some as a fight and to others as a disagreement.

Finally, spiritually we are all children, so even if there is some fault,

please do not take offense.

 

 

I hope that I have helped you to understand our position. Thank you for

taking your valuable time to write to me.

 

yours in service, vaiyasaki dasa...