Guest guest Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 H.N.Sreenivasa Murthy Pranams to you all. The following is an excerpt taken out from the book "Spiritual Discourses Of Sri Atmananda". As I felt that it may be of interest to some members I am posting the same. Quote: Sri Atmananda ( SA ): Don't you know your perceptions, thoughts and feelings? Devotee (D ): Yes. of course. SA: What is your position when you know them? EXAMINE it CAREFULLY and tell me. D: I stand as that faculty of knowledge, or objectless knowledge, when I know anything. SA : Then, is there any moment in all the three states when you do not stand as that pure Knowledge? D: No! I am there always. SA: Well! What may be the relationship between that knowledge and yourself? D : (After a pause) That knowledge can only be myself or MY REAL NATURE. SA: Now, do you see how you are Consciousness? D: Yes! Perfectly. SA: BE THERE ALWAYS. -- Spiritual discourses of Sri Atmananda ;Ch. 1955-28 Unquote. Should we not also SEE the above FACT and REMAIN AS SELF? With respectful regards, Sreenivasa murthy Do you have a question on a topic you cant find an Answer to. Try Answers India Get the all new Messenger Beta Now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 NAMASTE. WE CAN'T HELP REMAINING AS SELF. BUT THE TRAGEDY IS THAT WE DON'T REALIZE THAT WE REMAIN AND THAT WE ARE OBJECTLESS KNOWLEDGE ALL THE TIME DESPITE APPARENT OBJECTIVE TRANSACTIONS. PRANAMS. MADATHIL NAIR _____________________ advaitin, sreenivasa murthy <narayana145> wrote: The following is an excerpt taken out from the book "Spiritual Discourses Of Sri Atmananda". .....> > Should we not also SEE the above FACT and REMAIN AS SELF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 H.N. Sreenivasa Murthy Namaskarams. advaitin, "Madathil Rajendran Nair" <madathilnair> wrote: > > NAMASTE. > > WE CAN'T HELP REMAINING AS SELF. BUT THE TRAGEDY IS THAT WE DON'T > REALIZE THAT WE REMAIN AND THAT WE ARE OBJECTLESS KNOWLEDGE ALL THE > TIME DESPITE APPARENT OBJECTIVE TRANSACTIONS. > > PRANAMS. > > MADATHIL NAIR > _____________________ > > advaitin, sreenivasa murthy > <narayana145@> wrote: > > The following is an excerpt taken out from the > book "Spiritual Discourses Of Sri Atmananda". .....> > > > Should we not also SEE the above FACT and REMAIN AS SELF? Dear Sri Rajendran Nair, One can successfully put an end to this tragedy, provided he sees in the direction as pointed out by the Sage and this SEEING must be done with an OPEN MIND throwing out all the unwanted and unverified book knowledge. This is very essential.That is how one can relate the wisdom of the Sages to oneself. THIS IS WHAT MY GURU TAUGHT ME. With affectionate and respectful regards, Sreenivasa Murthy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 . advaitin, "Madathil Rajendran Nair" <madathilnair> wrote: > > NAMASTE. > > WE CAN'T HELP REMAINING AS SELF. BUT THE TRAGEDY IS THAT WE DON'T > REALIZE THAT WE REMAIN AND THAT WE ARE OBJECTLESS KNOWLEDGE ALL THE > TIME DESPITE APPARENT OBJECTIVE TRANSACTIONS. > Namaskaram to all, Shri Nair if " decides " ( remember this is action of the free will and this action is taken by shri Nair consciously ) to remain as self then that is something he continues to do purely because of the IGNORANCE and that will continue till the IGNORANCE is uncovered. that is why it is said " no one can change a person until he/she decides not to change and no one can stop from changing a person once he/ she decides to change " It will be nice to look at the statement " we are objectless knowledge ..." my feeling is that even this thinking may be due to my being unaware of the beauty of this knowledge.. how it helps in making this life really wonderful... be it a vyavaharika or not... like it is said in the scriptures u start knowing that you are more happy than unhappy which was not the case before the uncovering of the knowledge... and even if some time i forget and become disturbed, that disturbance is contained faster...so that you get in to your real nature faster... but then, the GURU can only guide you, all the efforts are to be put by " I " and may be it may take more time for one than the other ... but you can see the reasoning and logic even in that as to what could be ( debatable ) reason for this .. namaskaram Do you have a question on a topic you cant find an Answer to. Try Answers India Get the all new Messenger Beta Now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 Namaste. Sorry, Shri Pai, I don't get you here. I don't have to decide to remain as free Self as I do remain as or am the Self always. The fact is that I don't know that I am always the Self due to ignorance. So, the ignorant me has to decide to remove the ignorance so that I realize myself as Knowledge, i.e. the Self that hadn't ever undergone any change at all and that hasn't any objects other than Itself. PraNAms. Madathil Nair ______________________ advaitin, ram mohan anantha pai <pairamblr> wrote: > > Shri Nair if " decides " ( remember this is action of the free will and this action is taken by shri Nair consciously ) to remain as self then that is something he continues to do purely because of the IGNORANCE and that will continue till the IGNORANCE is uncovered. > that is why it is said > " no one can change a person until he/she decides not to change > and > no one can stop from changing a person once he/ she decides to change " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 Namaskaram I " dis-cover " that knowledge that " I " am that SAT CHIT ANANDA..that is BRHAMAN.. that is the knowledge.. but the ignorance initially does not make me aware of that, the learning process help me to understand that...though i may forget often and that will lead me to get disturbed etc..and the continuation of the learning process which is termed as MANANAM ....NIDHIDHYASANAM etc may some day lead me into full understanding and then there is no disturbed mind or longing mind or wanting mind or struggling mind etc...the " I " gets resovled into the ONE with no second...that is BRAHMAN... how many births i may need for that is not known .. but for sure the " I " of this group are heading towards that... ( ofcourse debatable) well ...that is my (mis?)understanding :-))) Madathil Rajendran Nair <madathilnair > wrote: Namaste. Sorry, Shri Pai, I don't get you here. I don't have to decide to remain as free Self as I do remain as or am the Self always. The fact is that I don't know that I am always the Self due to ignorance. So, the ignorant me has to decide to remove the ignorance so that I realize myself as Knowledge, i.e. the Self that hadn't ever undergone any change at all and that hasn't any objects other than Itself. PraNAms. Madathil Nair ______________________ advaitin, ram mohan anantha pai <pairamblr> wrote: > > Shri Nair if " decides " ( remember this is action of the free will and this action is taken by shri Nair consciously ) to remain as self then that is something he continues to do purely because of the IGNORANCE and that will continue till the IGNORANCE is uncovered. > that is why it is said > " no one can change a person until he/she decides not to change > and > no one can stop from changing a person once he/ she decides to change " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 sreenivasa murthy <narayana145 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: H.N.Sreenivasa Murthy Pranams to you all. Quote: Sri Atmananda ( SA ): Don't you know your perceptions, thoughts and feelings? Devotee (D ): Yes. of course. SA: What is your position when you know them? EXAMINE it CAREFULLY and tell me. D: I stand as that faculty of knowledge, or objectless knowledge, when I know anything. SA : Then, is there any moment in all the three states when you do not stand as that pure Knowledge? D: No! I am there always. SA: Well! What may be the relationship between that knowledge and yourself? D : (After a pause) That knowledge can only be myself or MY REAL NATURE. SA: Now, do you see how you are Consciousness? D: Yes! Perfectly. SA: BE THERE ALWAYS. -- Spiritual discourses of Sri Atmananda ;Ch. 1955-28 Unquote. Should we not also SEE the above FACT and REMAIN AS SELF? Dear Sir, The difficulty is that in all our perceptions we are not able to isolate the objectless knowledge, but remain as relative individuals, subjects, looking at an object. We are not able to have an insight into the pure Knowledge from which subjects and objects seemingly arise, as though they had an independent status. Only deep sleep ushers in this objectless knowledge, which we are not able to sustain. Baffled by our absence as a subject courting several objects, we confound that we are absent. with warm regards, yours ever in Bhaghavan Ramana Sankarraman Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 H.N.Sreenivasa Murthy Pranams to you all. Fromadvaitin, Ganesan Sankarraman <shnkaran> wrote: > Dear Sir, > The difficulty is that in all our perceptions we are not able to isolate the objectless knowledge, but remain as relative individuals, subjects, looking at an object. We are not able to have an insight into the pure Knowledge from which subjects and objects seemingly arise, as though they had an independent status. Only deep sleep ushers in this objectless knowledge, which we are not able to sustain. Baffled by our absence as a subject courting several objects, we confound that we are absent. > with warm regards, > yours ever in Bhaghavan Ramana > Sankarraman Dear Sri Sankarraman, Whenever perceptions happen, The OBJECTLESS CONSCIOUSNESS illumines the percepts. It is not that a relative subject is looking at an object. The RELATIVE SUBJECT IS ALSO AN OBJECT. Due to ignorance one does not know this fact. There never was a relative subject, there never is relative subject, there never will be a relative subject. THERE IS ONLY ONE SUBJECT, THAT IS, BRAHMAN/ATMAN/Objectless consciousness. I would like to draw your attention to the Manthra 3-8-10 of Bruhadaranyaka Upanishad. Please study and digest the commentary of Sri Shankara on that Manthra wherein it has been established that Atman alone is the seer, Atman alone is the Subject whenever the duality appears. Sri Bhagavan also has told : Are there two "I"s one "I" to know another "I"?. That there is only one "I" is the experience of all. As a devotee of Sri Bhagavan please ponder over this. Please do not REMAIN AT THE VERBAL LEVEL. Sri Atmananda , in very clear terms,has shown the way to realize one's true nature. The path is very simple and direct. One has to relate the teaching to one'S own life and SEE THOSE FACTS WITHIN ONESELF. Unless this sadhana is carried out one will never realize the Truth howevermuch one might have read. This is what I learnt from the association with my Guru. I may please be pardoned for this plain and straightforward writing. If I have violated the rules of the group, please excuse me. With warm and respectful regards. Sreenivasa Murthy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 narayana145 <narayana145 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: H.N.Sreenivasa Murthy Pranams to you all. Fromadvaitin, Ganesan Sankarraman <shnkaran> wrote: > Sri Bhagavan also has told : Are there two "I"s one "I" to know another "I"?. That there is only one "I" is the experience of all. As a devotee of Sri Bhagavan please ponder over this. Please do not REMAIN AT THE VERBAL LEVEL. Sri Atmananda , in very clear terms,has shown the way to realize one's true nature. The path is very simple and direct. One has to relate the teaching to one'S own life and SEE THOSE FACTS WITHIN ONESELF. Unless this sadhana is carried out one will never realize the Truth howevermuch one might have read. This is what I learnt from the association with my Guru. I may please be pardoned for this plain and straightforward writing. If I have violated the rules of the group, please excuse me. With warm and respectful regards. Sreenivasa Murthy Dear Srinuvasa Murthy, I welcome your plain talk. My intention is not to remain at the verbal level. I have read the Mantra of the Upanishads referred to by you, and I am aware of the cardinal teachings of Bhaghavan that there are not two 'I's, the one to be known by the other. Still, I have not penetrated the adamantine wall of duality steering clear of the non-self to understand the truth that there is only one Subject, and that the relative subject is also an object. If you do not mistake me, may I ask you whether you have had a direct perception of the self, which it looks like, since all of your messages do not indicate that you are still a learner, bur rather an Accomplished one like the Exalted one-the Buddha. You always take the role of guiding people rather than being hesitant in your ideas. If there is no sense of hesitancy in expressing oneself, that means that either one is already enlightened, or is labouring under the thought. Which of the categories you belong to, you may kindly state. I think even an enlightened master is hesitant in his way of expressing the truth, and in him there is definitely not the misconception that he is enlightened, and the others not, a monumental example of which noble understanding we have seen in the twentieth century in the personality of Bhaghavan. If you are already in the accomplished state, all of us are very happy to know that. But you must be compassionate towards the so-called ignorant who are only at the verbal level. The transition from the verbal to the non-verbal is a giant leap. You must be aware of it, and not talk in an advisory, rather admonishing, tone and tenor, unless, of course, you are already enlightened. I am grateful to you for your advise. But, if you feel the need, you may introspect whether you are repeating the scriptures, or are already at the transcendental level. As far as I am concerned, I accept that I am very mediocre both intellectually and existentially. By way of digression, I may state that I have read the work of K.A. Krishnaswamy Ayyar. Ayyar's writings are very analytical and discursive. Do you mean to say by virtue of this he is merely verbal? Further, Ayyar makes an extensive exposition of the teachings of Western philosophers like Bishop Berkely, Bradely, Spinoza, Hegel and even Bertrand Russel, a confirmed atheist, who never cared to categorise the wisdom of the Upanishads as one of philosophy, and yet claimed to be a philosopher. Russel talks of conquest of nature and possibilities of happiness without the need for transcendental wisdom. I don't know why Ayyar cares to value their teachings in his book which purports to explain avasthathriya. After a perusal of this work, I am able to understand that most of your writings are verbatium repetition of what Ayyar says. Still, I don't judge you, nor can I evaluate the wisdom of Ayyar by comparing him with somebody else, which will be very unpardonable on my part. My humble opinion is that this forum is to only indulge in intellectual thoughts, and one should not sit in judgement on others' progress in inner matters; nor one has the right to advise anybody except in objective matters. Even a very great person like Ramana did not do this. I reiterate to this forum that most of messages are only by way of expressing my intellectual understanding either derived from vedanta or buddhism or modern teachers like Krishnamurthy and Nisargdatta. By virtue of mere intellectual knwoledge, I have no authority to speak of one not having transcended the mere verbal level. All of us are filled with concepts, our knowledge being conceptual. But that cannot be derided on that score. Even the idea of the atman is a concept, but the best concept which should also dissolve like the, 'Pinam sudum Thadi.' If, unwittingly, there were some traces of assumption on my writings, a holier than thou attitude, I beseech your pardon.. with warm regards, yours ever in Bhaghavan Sankarraman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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