Hallucinations and what is real... how do you know?

[Guest guest]

Basically the question I have is how do you know if you are having an hallucination or you're not? How do you know what you're experiencing is reality?

 

Many people who experience NDE's claim that what they are experiencing is "real". Same with those who undergo meditation and achieve samadhi.

 

The problem though is how do you know these states are authentic? They seem to be easily reproducible through drugs. People enter a dissociative state through either meditation or drugs, and it isn't unheard of for mystics to use drugs to induce such states. Some Vedic rishis used soma and paid homage to it in the Vedas.

 

Another drug that could be used is the drug ketamine which can easily produce an NDE that appears authentic in every sense. So how do you know that what you are experiencing is real? For reference go to "lycaeum . org/drugs . old/synthetics/ketamine/Ketamine_NDE_Model . html" for an article on the use of ketamine to reproduce an NDE.

 

I've heard it said that even a touch can reproduce such a state, or can arouse kundalini through shaktipat but how do we know it's not a product of hypnosis?

 

Even NDE's themselves seem to be contradictory. Some confirm Hindu/Buddhist tenets, some orthodox Christianity by saying if you don't worship Christ you go to hell. So what's real?

 

How does one grapple with this issue? Do people just go on faith or is there some kind of rationale people have from which you can conclude that what is experienced through meditation has to be real?

[nekozuki]

Ask me this are hallucinations that unreal. They're real to the person experiencing them. We still have a lot to know about the human brain, in fact we only use 10% of it.

[Guest guest]

 

Ask me this are hallucinations that unreal. They're real to the person experiencing them. We still have a lot to know about the human brain, in fact we only use 10% of it.

 

 

That's a myth. We use all of our brains, just not all of it at any particular point in time. For instance, when we read, certain parts of our brain are more active than others. When we think, cry, laugh, etc. the part of the brain that governs these activities is more active than others. There's no part of our brain that's a "dead zone" as per the title of the Stephen King novel.

 

In any case, are you telling me to ask you if hallucinations are unreal? So what if they're real to the person experiencing them? They're NOT based on facts, there is no connection with THIS reality. Those hallucinations cause a person to believe in something that isn't true, and base his actions on some information or experience that isn't real. There is no objectivity to his experience, there's no truth to the things he's experiencing as they are all in his mind.

 

So yes, hallucinations that provide false information are VERY unreal. Even hallucinations that provide real information about someone or something that's verifiable can be unreal, as the EFFECT of that hallucination can cause a person to believe wholeheartedly in the hallucinatory experience when it really was by mere chance it turned out to be real. Or there could be some external factor outside of the hallucinatory experience that could have contributed to the verifiable facts produced by the hallucination.

 

For instance, it is contended by many rationalists and scientists that there is no such thing as psychic phenomena; psychics are either frauds or they believe they're psychic when they really are not. Psychics act on what they observe and deduce things from what they see, but they aren't actually psychic because none of the information they have attained is really a product of information nobody else has access to, or so the critics say. In other words, they're simply making observations and deducing things, and their brain is just interpreting this information in the form of "psychic" flashes of intuition or whatever. Which again goes to the point that hallucinations that provide even real facts aren't necessarily real, as something similar could be happening there.

 

An example to prove the unreality of hallucinations: The Son of Sam, David Berkowitz, hallucinated that a dog talked to him and urged him to kill. So did the dog really urge Berkowitz to kill?

 

Or how about a case where a woman drowned her babies, because God told her to do so? Did God really tell her to drown her babies? Is God really that malevolent that he would tell a person to commit such a heinous act?

 

 

I assume you believe in God, spirituality, and mysticism, correct? Does the position that you presented above form the foundation for your belief system? Why not do drugs then? Use the medically approved amount of ketamine to experience an NDE, and convince yourself all of it is real? Isn't THAT the epitome of self-delusion? That concept is the thing that many of our Vedic scriptures have talked about overcoming, yet couldn't the experiences which the scriptures praise, be the real product of self-delusion?

 

I don't want to believe in atheism, nor do I want to believe that spirit doesn't exist. Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking to debunk spirituality and theology. I do want to however have something to hang my faith on, because if there is nothing, then I have to take the stance that life is pointless, it has no meaning. It's devoid of any purpose, and there can be no contentment found in life and that none of our actions truly matter. I meditate daily, have not experienced anything that I can truly say was profound. I haven't ever had any hallucinations or any visions, or whatever. I've prayed to God many times with no effect. Sometimes I believe he is real, sometimes I don't. Either way, it seems to have made no difference. In the off chance I do experience something, I would like to be able to tell if it was authentic or inauthentic. Whether it was a product of the mind or the intangible spirit. Whether God was communicating to me, or I was simply in a delusive state of mind.

 

So I'm asking, again, is there anything more substantial than the stance that hallucinations are real to the person experiencing it, for the belief in spiritual experiences being "real" in comparison to hallucinations?

 

Also, has anyone had any authentic spiritual experiences? If so, what were they? What is your stance on the issue of hallucinations vs. spiritual experiences? Why do you believe in your spiritual experiences and how do you cope with it?

[gHari]

http://www.audarya-fellowship.com/forums/spiritual-discussions/272951-how-does-one-know-whether-experiences-meditation.html

[Michlik]

Can anyone please helm me kind of ? I have hallucinations these days,I've been having them from quite a long time.I keep hearing my name everytime and when I ask my friends about it they just look at me and ask me if i'm fine.I also hallucinate other kinds of things like one time I saw my friend at school and then when I went towards her with my other friend she told me that she's not at school today.I had asked eveyone and they told me she was absent I even asked my friend the next day and she was really absent.What to do when you hallucinations ?? I do not take drugs or smoke so plz if you could help me I would really appreciate.And there is no way i'm going to see a psy.

Thank You