Guest guest Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 I starting reading about sri ramana maharshi a year ago and I started practing self enquiry a few months back. Before getting into this, I used to help others and participated in some voluntary activities. But these days, I just want to be alone and whenever I get a chance practice self-enquiry. So sometimes I feel like I'm becoming selfish. I know that ramana maharshi said that the greatest help one can do to the humanity is to realize his true self. But I still feed bad about it. Has anyone had this kind of emotional dilemma when they started self-enquiry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 All work done with the sense'i am the doer' -even acts of great charity are essentially selfish.In my experience self enquiry helped me to understand : what needed to be done ,who really needed helping,to get rid of my needful desire 'to be loved', and to turn your whole life into one act of easy charity in the sense that everything is SELF. Yes we need to feed the hungry ,but hey don't forget to say thanks to the person who fed you today. regards, michael dillon "kondadadi" <kondadadi > RamanaMaharshi RamanaMaharshi [RamanaMaharshi] Selfishness Wed, 24 May 2006 17:43:24 -0000 I starting reading about sri ramana maharshi a year ago and I started practing self enquiry a few months back. Before getting into this, I used to help others and participated in some voluntary activities. But these days, I just want to be alone and whenever I get a chance practice self-enquiry. So sometimes I feel like I'm becoming selfish. I know that ramana maharshi said that the greatest help one can do to the humanity is to realize his true self. But I still feed bad about it. Has anyone had this kind of emotional dilemma when they started self-enquiry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 Dear Kondadadi, Self enquiry is not round the clock. You should continue all your pevious activitiesas usual.but do introspection frequently as per teachings Ramana Maharishi. brij kondadadi <kondadadi > wrote: I starting reading about sri ramana maharshi a year ago and I started practing self enquiry a few months back. Before getting into this, I used to help others and participated in some voluntary activities. But these days, I just want to be alone and whenever I get a chance practice self-enquiry. So sometimes I feel like I'm becoming selfish. I know that ramana maharshi said that the greatest help one can do to the humanity is to realize his true self. But I still feed bad about it. Has anyone had this kind of emotional dilemma when they started self-enquiry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 Dear Kondadi, I to a Nisargadatta Maharaj list and I got the following quote just a day before your post - "A man who claims to know what is good for others is dangerous." regards Rishi ----- Original message ----- [1]"kondadadi" <kondadadi > [2]RamanaMaharshi Wed, 24 May 2006 17:43:24 -0000 [RamanaMaharshi] Selfishness I starting reading about sri ramana maharshi a year ago and I started practing self enquiry a few months back. Before getting into this, I used to help others and participated in some voluntary activities. But these days, I just want to be alone and whenever I get a chance practice self-enquiry. So sometimes I feel like I'm becoming selfish. I know that ramana maharshi said that the greatest help one can do to the humanity is to realize his true self. But I still feed bad about it. Has anyone had this kind of emotional dilemma when they started self-enquiry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 The thing to remember while one is practising self-enqiry and going about one's work is that whatever you do is really done by God. Remember Bhagavan quoting the example of the figures on temple gopuras, seeming to bear the weight of the towers? J. and S. Lartet Email : jslartet , lartets Get on board. You're invited to try the new Mail Beta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 Thanks all for the responses. I'm still a beginner. These responses will be really helpful to be on the right track. RamanaMaharshi, Lartets <jslartet> wrote: > > The thing to remember while one is practising self-enqiry and going about one's work is that whatever you do is really done by God. Remember Bhagavan quoting the example of the figures on temple gopuras, seeming to bear the weight of the towers? > > J. and S. Lartet > Email : jslartet, lartets > > > > > > > > Get on board. You're invited to try the new Mail Beta. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 Yes, it is like tasting honey to acquire awareness of self in self-enquiry, however, I feel that one must make a conscious effort to devote some time of each day to pass this wonderful knowledge to others. kondadadi <kondadadi > wrote: I starting reading about sri ramana maharshi a year ago and I started practing self enquiry a few months back. Before getting into this, I used to help others and participated in some voluntary activities. But these days, I just want to be alone and whenever I get a chance practice self-enquiry. So sometimes I feel like I'm becoming selfish. I know that ramana maharshi said that the greatest help one can do to the humanity is to realize his true self. But I still feed bad about it. Has anyone had this kind of emotional dilemma when they started self-enquiry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 Dear Kondadadi, In inquiry you are looking to see what is your true identity. One thing that I have found helpful is to notice what changes and what does not. There is within you something that never changes, is the same as your oldest memory, that does not change in the waking state, dream or deep sleep. How can what is changing be your identity? this is something that you can investigate in inquiry. You are in Grace that you are drawn to self-inquiry. Ramana teaches that this Grace is who we already are. To know this Grace as our Being, we have just to remove identification with these erronious ideas of being some kind of separate entity. Not two, Richard Original Message: ----------------- kondadadi kondadadi Thu, 25 May 2006 13:50:40 -0000 RamanaMaharshi [RamanaMaharshi] Re: Selfishness Thanks all for the responses. I'm still a beginner. These responses will be really helpful to be on the right track. RamanaMaharshi, Lartets <jslartet> wrote: > > The thing to remember while one is practising self-enqiry and going about one's work is that whatever you do is really done by God. Remember Bhagavan quoting the example of the figures on temple gopuras, seeming to bear the weight of the towers? > > J. and S. Lartet > Email : jslartet, lartets > > > > > > > > Get on board. You're invited to try the new Mail Beta. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 >The thing to remember while one is practising self-enqiry and going about one's work is that whatever you do is really done by God. It seems like the harder thing is feeling that what others do is really done by God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 Yes, I did say that with a touch of humor, but I was also trying to make a genuine point. It is easy to confuse my real self with my identity. If I think that what I do is done by God, then I may make the mistake of believing my identity to be God. Thinking I am God makes less sense than thinking I am this body. God is always able to get what He wants, but my control is infinitesimal (often I cannot even control my desires). He can raise lift a mountain with His little finger as if it were a mushroom, float planets in space, and animate the whole world; but I can barely lift a hundred pound rock for a moment. If someone drives slow in front of me, I get annoyed but I have to tolerate it. God doesn't have to tolerate anything. He can make the slow driver go faster because He's the one driving the car, the one who annoys me in that way. When I'm late for work, I could think, "Here is God driving slowly in front of me," but my initial thought is probably more like, "I am important and have something important to do, and this moron better get out of my way." Thus it is harder to see others actions as done by God than my own. Maybe I ought to think that God is annoying Himself by driving slow when He is in a hurry, but that's just weird. God is known as the ultimate enjoyer and thus His identity is a great temptation for me to stay in mundane consciousness. His personality is like a wish-fulfilling gem. Who, if given a wish-fulfilling gem, would not make any wish? Yet if I become convinced that God is everywhere but my personal identity is insignificant, then I may be more inclined to abandon my pursuit of mundane enjoyment. I want that I would wish that God take this cintamani for His own enjoyment, even though He doesn't need it. Of course, that is bhakti, but my feeling is that if I want to burn out this candle that is my misconception of self, the fastest way is to light both ends even though I may get burned trying to hold on to it. Does God agree or disagree? - Pandu RamanaMaharshi [RamanaMaharshi] On Behalf Of seetha gopalakrishna Sunday, May 28, 2006 6:36 PM RamanaMaharshi Re: [RamanaMaharshi] Digest Number 2013 there was some sense of humour in what pandu says. seetha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 Dear Pandu, My teacher, Nome might say, "Let God take care of God. The seeker needs to find out, once and for all, just what his own identity really is." The paths taught by Ramana are Devotion, in which case the individual ego is given to God, and Self-inquiry, where the seeker, investigating their own identity, discriminates the real (that which is always present) from the unreal (that which changes). Eliminating the unreal, the Self stands as it is. Not two, Richard RamanaMaharshi, Pandu das <Pandu108.bms> wrote: > > Yes, I did say that with a touch of humor, but I was also trying to make > a genuine point. It is easy to confuse my real self with my identity. > > > > - Pandu > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 This post contains so much misunderstanding. It basically represents the minds ability to complicate and bamboozle. Time to get back to basics....who is writing all this poppy-cock? When you start to make God in your own image you just end up really confused...God is inconceivable, imperceivable....realise that and stop frustrating yourself. Love, Louis. RamanaMaharshi [RamanaMaharshi]On Behalf Of Pandu das 01 June 2006 05:34 RamanaMaharshi RE: [RamanaMaharshi] Selfishness Yes, I did say that with a touch of humor, but I was also trying to make a genuine point. It is easy to confuse my real self with my identity. If I think that what I do is done by God, then I may make the mistake of believing my identity to be God. Thinking I am God makes less sense than thinking I am this body. God is always able to get what He wants, but my control is infinitesimal (often I cannot even control my desires). He can raise lift a mountain with His little finger as if it were a mushroom, float planets in space, and animate the whole world; but I can barely lift a hundred pound rock for a moment. If someone drives slow in front of me, I get annoyed but I have to tolerate it. God doesn't have to tolerate anything. He can make the slow driver go faster because He's the one driving the car, the one who annoys me in that way. When I'm late for work, I could think, "Here is God driving slowly in front of me," but my initial thought is probably more like, "I am important and have something important to do, and this moron better get out of my way." Thus it is harder to see others actions as done by God than my own. Maybe I ought to think that God is annoying Himself by driving slow when He is in a hurry, but that's just weird. God is known as the ultimate enjoyer and thus His identity is a great temptation for me to stay in mundane consciousness. His personality is like a wish-fulfilling gem. Who, if given a wish-fulfilling gem, would not make any wish? Yet if I become convinced that God is everywhere but my personal identity is insignificant, then I may be more inclined to abandon my pursuit of mundane enjoyment. I want that I would wish that God take this cintamani for His own enjoyment, even though He doesn't need it. Of course, that is bhakti, but my feeling is that if I want to burn out this candle that is my misconception of self, the fastest way is to light both ends even though I may get burned trying to hold on to it. Does God agree or disagree? - Pandu RamanaMaharshi [RamanaMaharshi] On Behalf Of seetha gopalakrishna Sunday, May 28, 2006 6:36 PM RamanaMaharshi Re: [RamanaMaharshi] Digest Number 2013 there was some sense of humour in what pandu says. seetha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 Louis, Perhaps you could criticize in a little more detail so we could have more of a discussion (if that's OK - Moderator?). I readily admit that I am accompanied by my mind, probably every waking moment. So that's what I have to work with. From what I've read of advaita philosophy, most of that being Ramana's teachings and Vasistha's Yoga, the material things we experience, from the subtle like the mind and false ego to the gross such as bodies or stones, are actually nonexistent. Yet they experience each other (we experience them) due to the self's quality of awareness. This is somewhat of a conundrum, and I'm pretty sure you experience it too. I'm not ashamed to admit that I find this philosophy somewhat puzzling. That's why I'm here, to learn from those who presumably understand better; or to see if people do not understand their philosophy as well as they say, whichever be the case. >"Who is writing all this poppy-cock?" Well, this body is doing the typing, prompted by the desires of this false ego, according to the understanding of my intelligence and directed by the thoughts that pass through my mind. These facilities are simultaneously me and not me. If you're trying to get me to say or understand or see who I am ultimately, well you're not the first to try that and fail. Of course I am existing at present, and I have some sense of eternally existing, but I'm definitely not supremely conscious. >"When you start to make God in your own image you just end up really confused." How do you figure that I started making God in my image? Perhaps it's because I regard God as having a real, eternal, transcendental form, identity, and personality. Perhaps you would say that God does not have these features. However, the absolute could not be considered fully opulent (bhagavan) without spiritual features, such as described in Brahma-samhita, ch5, 1st sloka, "isvarah paramah krsnah sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah" (The form of Krishna, the supreme controller, is eternal, conscious, and blissful). >" God is inconceivable, imperceivable." In Bhagavad-gita, (which Ramana sometimes would reference), Krishna tells Arjuna in Chapter 7, verse 1, that by practicing yoga with his mind absorbed in Him ("mayi," - "in Me, Krsna"), dependent on Him (madasrayas), he shall know Him, completely (samagram), without doubt (asamsayam). In other words, by concentrating one's mind on God, one can know God by His mercy. What you said suggests that God is powerless to reveal Himself to anyone, which contradicts God's omnipotence. In fact, God is quite simple. I would surmise that you consider the ultimate self to be nirguna, without material qualities. However we as persons have qualities that are material. God is fully opulent with qualities that are not material. Thus He is sometimes described as saguna, which means that He has qualities, and nirguna which means that His qualities are not material. In any case, to say that the absolute has no qualities whatsoever is to claim that the absolute is limited, in other words, to define the absolute according to your limited understanding. >"realise that and stop frustrating yourself." In other words, give up trying to understand God. To do that is to abandon what He describes (B.g. 18.64-65) as His supreme instruction (paramam vacah): "Always think of Me (man-mana), become My devotee (bhava mad-bhakto), worship Me (mat-yaji mam), and offer obeisances unto Me (namaskuru mam). Actually that reminds me of one thing that's puzzled me about Ramana's teachings, that he said the chief teachings of Bhagavad-gita are in Chapter 2, although Krishna specifically states that His supreme teaching follows verse 18.64. Perhaps someone could comment on that. Well now I've gone and stayed up too late! Please forgive any errors; I've got to get to sleep. Sincerely, Pandu das RamanaMaharshi [RamanaMaharshi] On Behalf Of Louis Mitchell Thursday, June 01, 2006 2:58 PM RamanaMaharshi RE: [RamanaMaharshi] Selfishness This post contains so much misunderstanding. It basically represents the minds ability to complicate and bamboozle. Time to get back to basics....who is writing all this poppy-cock? When you start to make God in your own image you just end up really confused...God is inconceivable, imperceivable....realise that and stop frustrating yourself. Love, Louis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 Pandu das wrote: > Louis, > > Perhaps you could criticize in a little more detail so we > could have more of a discussion (if that's OK - Moderator?). Have you read, "Talks with Ramana Maharshi"? You should read Sri Ramana's words and be in tune with the teachings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 >Have you read, "Talks with Ramana Maharshi"? You should read Sri >Ramana's words and be in tune with the teachings. Yes. I started reading it last September and I just completed it a few weeks ago. I still read a little from it almost every day. It helped me a lot when I was dealing with the emotional trauma of encountering scandal in the leadership of the bhakti tradition I was participating in before I joined this group. However, I've been finding that immersion in advaita philosophy leads me to dvaita, and immersion in dvaita leads me to advaita. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu taught 'acintya bheda-abheda tattva' (inconceivable oneness and difference), and I wonder if that is a clue to why I find aspects of each view that are satisfying but neither is fully so. I'm simply looking for practical experience of the truth, which I presume is a common goal here. Sincerely, Pandu das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 NOTICE: Please shorten posts to which you are replying, when they are lengthy, as has been done here. ~ ~ Moderator ~ ~ ===================================================================================================================================== Dear all, Is spirituality so complex as we are making it out to be? Can we just 'be'? Who is helped by the verbal duels except the ego? Sachin ---- Pandu das 06/03/06 01:34:21 RamanaMaharshi RE: [RamanaMaharshi] Selfishness Louis, Perhaps you could criticize in a little more detail so we could have more of a discussion (if that's OK - Moderator?). I readily admit that I am accompanied by my mind, probably every waking moment. So that's what I have to work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Sachin, Spirituality is certainly elusive. Unlike efforts in the material World you don't see an obvious correlation between effort and result (progress). Only rare individuals reach the goal. Also the end result is not visible. It has to be inferred. We continue to make efforts till we realise that it is not a subject matter of effort, but of awareness and Grace (or Maturity). If the mind has matured enough, it can indulge in SELF Enquiry without diificulty. Otherwise as Bhagavan says we must have faith in God and hope that He will take us in. Till then the babble will go on ... with kind regards Sivaramakrishna --- > Is spirituality so complex as we are making it out to be? Can we just 'be'? > Who is helped by the verbal duels except the ego? > > Sachin > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Re: This post contains so much misunderstanding. It basically represents the minds ability to complicate and bamboozle. Time to get back to basics.....who is writing all this poppy-cock? Indeed.: viz: "Once born you reach something; if you reach it you return also. Therefore leave off all this verbiage! Be as you are. See who you are and remain as the Self, free from birth, going, coming and returning. D.: True. However often this truth is heard, still it eludes us and we forget it. M.: Quite so. Reminders are often necessary." (From Talk §181) >From Harsha: >Have you read, "Talks with Ramana Maharshi"? You should read Sri >Ramana's words and be in tune with the teachings >From Pandu Das: Re: >Yes. I started reading it last September and I just completed it a few weeks ago. I still read a >little from it almost every day. Perhaps you should study it a little more, Sir. This thread is hereby closed. Regards, Moderator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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