Caste System - Misconceptions and misinformation.

[Guest guest]

Q & A: caste system

From Vedics Mag: Volume1, Issue 2

http://vedics.net/magazine/index.html

Mukundan Pattangi

 

The truth about Varna (Occupation) and JAti (Caste)

 

Question: What is VEDICS view on Caste system? Is it true that the Vedic

religion divides people based on birth?

 

Answer: Popular misconceptions say that the Vedic religion encourages

division of human beings based on one's birth. As a result, some people

have abused these misconceptions and misinformation for personal

gains. Much of this misconception can be attributed to the use of the

words 'Varna' and 'JAti' interchangeably. A closer analysis will reveal

just how wrong these misconceptions are.

 

Question: What is Varna?

 

Answer: The root word for Varna is 'Vri' which means one's occupation. The

Varna system was hence originally based on division of labor. Those whose

duties were to protect the men, animals and properties were called as

'Kshatriyas', the warriors. Those who had skills in teaching and scholarly

thought were 'Brahmins' and so on.

 

The Varna system was solely based on the attitude of an individual and

his/her propensity for performing certain duties. The source of these

identified in the Srimad Bhagavad Gita as being the gunas, or inner

qualities, that were the result of the karmas of each individual from

previous lives. Those who had more of Sattva guna were Brahmins, those who

had Rajasic Guna were Kshatriyas and so on.

 

Question: Is that just your opinion or there is any proof for this?

 

Answer: To quote from Lord Krishna’s words in Chapter 4, Verse 13 of Sri

mad Bhagavad Gita:

 

catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah

tasya kartaram api mam viddhy akartaram avyayam

 

The Lord says that according to the three modes of material nature and the

work associated with them, He created the four divisions of human society.

 

 

 

Question: Are there any examples of great scholars who were not born in

Brahmin families?

 

 

Answer: We have instances from purAnas of many who were not born from

Brahmin parents actually teaching Brahmins and Kshatriyas. For example, Sri

Vedavyasa was the one who actually compiled 4 Vedas. But he was not born to

Brahmin parents

 

At some time, many many thousands of years ago, people had some right to

choose over their Varna based on their karmas and their

interests. However, over time, fathers began to expect their sons to take

over the duties of their specific calling. Due to the continual aspect of

the son taking over father's duties in the society, the 'work associated'

became a matter of birth and in later days, became identified as a birth

right.

 

Question: And what is jAti?

 

Answer: The root for jAti is 'jan', which means birth. It might have

happened that due to a continual devolution of one's father's duty to his

son over many years, Varna became confused with jAti and we know where we

are now.

 

Instead of having four divisions of labors, we now have several dozen

jAtis, each competing with one another for special rights, and each blaming

the other for the problems of society. So, even though two jAtis may

actually belong to one varna, they may see each other as being two

different castes. It is this which has led to the degradation of the varna

system and a general disrespect for the Vedas.

 

While it may not be possible to move completely away from the equating of

varna and jAti, we must recognize that when our pUrvacharyas referred to

Varna, they literally meant two things:

* One's attitude (Sattvic, Rajasic and Tamasa Gunas)

* The duties the individual held in the society.

 

What is important to recognize that, in line with Vedic teachings, our

pUrvacharyas refused to acknowledge one Varna as being greater than

another, or one being lower than another. All people, irrespective of their

Varna are equal in their ability to do Good for this world, and in their

ability to obtain salvation through surrender to the Lotus Feet of Sriman

Narayana.

 

In many of the Sri Vaishnava works such as Sri Vachana Bhushanam, it is

clearly emphasized that a Sri Vaishnava , irrespective of race, caste, or

gender should be revered and respected as 'ThirumAl adiyAr' (a servant of

the Lord of Lakshmi)

 

Consequently, while we must respect and perform the duties and obligations

of our specific varna, we must not divide ourselves by jAti. We are all

one family bound together by Sriman Narayana and His Unconditional Love for

each and every one of us.

 

 

 

Question: In recent years are there examples of Non-Brahmin born Scholars

who in turn had Brahmin born students?

 

 

Answer: BCE 3102, about 5100 Years ago: Svami Satagopan (Nammazhvar) was

born into a family belonging to 4th Varna, Sudra. He is regarded to be

the greatest among the 10 Azhvars and is also the "most important" AchArya

of our lineage of teachers, who revealed the essence of the Vedas and

Upanishads to all of us. All Srivaishnvas including BRAHMINS OFFER PRAYERS

TO HIM DAILY.

 

Our Azhvars time periods are given below.

 

Mudal Azhvars: Dwapara: 8,62,900 same as BCE 4202

Thirumazhisai : Dwapara: 8,62,900 same as BCE 4202

Nammazhvar : Kali: 001 same as BCE 3102

Madhurakavi : similar time period as Nammazhvar.

Kulashekara : Kali 027 same as BCE 3075

PeriAzhvar : Kali 046 same as BCE 3056

Andal : Kali 097 same as BCE 3005

Thondaradipodi : Kali 288 same as BCE 2814

Thiruppan : Kali 342 same as BCE 2760

Thirumangai : Kali 397 same as BCE 2706

 

According to the Vedas, time is given in cycles of four yugas:

 

Krutha Yuga 17,28,000 years

Thretha Yuga 12,96,000 years

Dwapara Yuga 8,64,000 years

Kali Yuga 4,32,000 years

 

Most of the Azhvars are not born in Brahmin families, but we keep their

Vigraha in the temple and homes and worship them. This clearly shows that

in Sri Vaishnava tradition, caste is irrelevant; being a devotee of the

Lord is what matters. (Any living being is equally qualified to be His devotee)

 

 

 

Question: Are there any examples in the last few hundred years?

 

Answer: Yes, there are many examples in Sri Vaishnava Acharyas. The noted

scholar Sri Pillailokacharya lived in Srirangam throughout his life and was

a strong believer, preacher & propagator in equality of various varnas in

the eyes of God. One of his foremost disciples was a Harijan, called

vilAncolaippiLLai, who became very learned and, in his turn, had many

Brahmins as his disciples. In the eyes of the Lord all are same and

everyone has been given this blessed birth. This is an opportunity to fall

in love with God, and realize our true purpose of life, irrespective of

race, caste, or gender.

 

===================================================================

Please note

1=> Purvachayas taught Samskritha Vedas ONLY to Dwijas.

2=> They never appointed non-brahmins as archakas.

3=> They preached compassion to all beings at all time.

4=> They appointed many non-brahmins for other (non-archaka) services in

the temple for the LORD.

5=> They have had thousands of Non-brahmin sishyas and moved closely with them.

 

Caste is irrelavent for Sri Viashnavas,

but for Veidhika Karmas,

Vedas is needed and to learn and chant Vedas, its rules must be followed.

 

 

adiyens appeal to the followers of the religion not go against our

Purvacharyas ways, (1 and 2)

Purvacharyas have had the utmost intelligence and education, on top of the

being in HIS grace,

and have thought of everything possible and given the answers to everything

that we may ask.

 

Let us "never" ever think that we, with this very limited knowledge can ever

do better than them. Let us pray to the lord that all the believers stay in

this path and not try to create new rules and religions

under the guise of SriViashnvam.

 

I end this thread in the words of Mamunikal,

 

"MunnOr mozhinda muRai thappAmal kETTu

pinnOrndhu thAm adanaippEsAde * tham nenjil

thORRinadhE solli – idu suddha upadEsavara

VARRadenbar – mUrkarAvAr - (URM 71) "

==============================================

[Guest guest]

SrI:

Excellent write-up SvAmin, this shall quell the miscues of many Srivaishnavas on issues relating to caste.

adiyen,

kidAmbi Soundararajan.

 

Pattangi <danp (AT) uic (DOT) edu> wrote:

Q & A: caste system

 

From Vedics Mag: Volume1, Issue 2

http://vedics.net/magazine/index.html

Mukundan Pattangi

 

 

The truth about Varna (Occupation) and JAti (Caste)

 

Question: What is VEDICS view on Caste system? Is it true that the Vedic religion divides people based on birth?

 

Answer: Popular misconceptions say that the Vedic religion encourages division of human beings based on one's birth. As a result, some people have abused these misconceptions and misinformation for personal gains. Much of this misconception can be attributed to the use of the words 'Varna' and 'JAti' interchangeably. A closer analysis will reveal just how wrong these misconceptions are.

 

Question: What is Varna?

 

Answer: The root word for Varna is 'Vri' which means one's occupation. The Varna system was hence originally based on division of labor. Those whose duties were to protect the men, animals and properties were called as 'Kshatriyas', the warriors. Those who had skills in teaching and scholarly thought were 'Brahmins' and so on.

 

The Varna system was solely based on the attitude of an individual and his/her propensity for performing certain duties. The source of these identified in the Srimad Bhagavad Gita as being the gunas, or inner qualities, that were the result of the karmas of each individual from previous lives. Those who had more of Sattva guna were Brahmins, those who had Rajasic Guna were Kshatriyas and so on.

 

Question: Is that just your opinion or there is any proof for this?

 

Answer: To quote from Lord Krishna’s words in Chapter 4, Verse 13 of Sri mad Bhagavad Gita:

 

catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah

tasya kartaram api mam viddhy akartaram avyayam

 

The Lord says that according to the three modes of material nature and the work associated with them, He created the four divisions of human society.

 

 

Question: Are there any examples of great scholars who were not born in Brahmin families?

Answer: We have instances from purAnas of many who were not born from Brahmin parents actually teaching Brahmins and Kshatriyas. For example, Sri Vedavyasa was the one who actually compiled 4 Vedas. But he was not born to Brahmin parents

 

At some time, many many thousands of years ago, people had some right to choose over their Varna based on their karmas and their interests. However, over time, fathers began to expect their sons to take over the duties of their specific calling. Due to the continual aspect of the son taking over father's duties in the society, the 'work associated' became a matter of birth and in later days, became identified as a birth right.

 

Question: And what is jAti?

 

Answer: The root for jAti is 'jan', which means birth. It might have happened that due to a continual devolution of one's father's duty to his son over many years, Varna became confused with jAti and we know where we are now.

 

Instead of having four divisions of labors, we now have several dozen jAtis, each competing with one another for special rights, and each blaming the other for the problems of society. So, even though two jAtis may actually belong to one varna, they may see each other as being two different castes. It is this which has led to the degradation of the varna system and a general disrespect for the Vedas.

 

While it may not be possible to move completely away from the equating of varna and jAti, we must recognize that when our pUrvacharyas referred to Varna, they literally meant two things:

One's attitude (Sattvic, Rajasic and Tamasa Gunas)

The duties the individual held in the society.

 

What is important to recognize that, in line with Vedic teachings, our pUrvacharyas refused to acknowledge one Varna as being greater than another, or one being lower than another. All people, irrespective of their Varna are equal in their ability to do Good for this world, and in their ability to obtain salvation through surrender to the Lotus Feet of Sriman Narayana.

 

In many of the Sri Vaishnava works such as Sri Vachana Bhushanam, it is clearly emphasized that a Sri Vaishnava , irrespective of race, caste, or gender should be revered and respected as 'ThirumAl adiyAr' (a servant of the Lord of Lakshmi)

 

Consequently, while we must respect and perform the duties and obligations of our specific varna, we must not divide ourselves by jAti. We are all one family bound together by Sriman Narayana and His Unconditional Love for each and every one of us.

 

 

Question: In recent years are there examples of Non-Brahmin born Scholars who in turn had Brahmin born students?

Answer: BCE 3102, about 5100 Years ago: Svami Satagopan (Nammazhvar) was born into a family belonging to 4th Varna, Sudra. He is regarded to be the greatest among the 10 Azhvars and is also the "most important" AchArya of our lineage of teachers, who revealed the essence of the Vedas and Upanishads to all of us. All Srivaishnvas including BRAHMINS OFFER PRAYERS TO HIM DAILY.

 

Our Azhvars time periods are given below.

 

Mudal Azhvars: Dwapara: 8,62,900 same as BCE 4202

Thirumazhisai : Dwapara: 8,62,900 same as BCE 4202

Nammazhvar : Kali: 001 same as BCE 3102

Madhurakavi : similar time period as Nammazhvar.

Kulashekara : Kali 027 same as BCE 3075

PeriAzhvar : Kali 046 same as BCE 3056

Andal : Kali 097 same as BCE 3005

Thondaradipodi : Kali 288 same as BCE 2814

Thiruppan : Kali 342 same as BCE 2760

Thirumangai : Kali 397 same as BCE 2706

 

According to the Vedas, time is given in cycles of four yugas:

 

Krutha Yuga 17,28,000 years

Thretha Yuga 12,96,000 years

Dwapara Yuga 8,64,000 years

Kali Yuga 4,32,000 years

 

Most of the Azhvars are not born in Brahmin families, but we keep their Vigraha in the temple and homes and worship them. This clearly shows that in Sri Vaishnava tradition, caste is irrelevant; being a devotee of the Lord is what matters. (Any living being is equally qualified to be His devotee)

 

 

Question: Are there any examples in the last few hundred years?Answer: Yes, there are many examples in Sri Vaishnava Acharyas. The noted scholar Sri Pillailokacharya lived in Srirangam throughout his life and was a strong believer, preacher & propagator in equality of various varnas in the eyes of God. One of his foremost disciples was a Harijan, called vilAncolaippiLLai, who became very learned and, in his turn, had many Brahmins as his disciples. In the eyes of the Lord all are same and everyone has been given this blessed birth. This is an opportunity to fall in love with God, and realize our true purpose of life, irrespective of race, caste, or gender.

 

===================================================================

Please note

1=> Purvachayas taught Samskritha Vedas ONLY to Dwijas.

2=> They never appointed non-brahmins as archakas.

3=> They preached compassion to all beings at all time.

4=> They appointed many non-brahmins for other (non-archaka) services in the temple for the LORD.

5=> They have had thousands of Non-brahmin sishyas and moved closely with them.

 

Caste is irrelavent for Sri Viashnavas,

but for Veidhika Karmas,

Vedas is needed and to learn and chant Vedas, its rules must be followed.

 

 

adiyens appeal to the followers of the religion not go against our Purvacharyas ways, (1 and 2)

Purvacharyas have had the utmost intelligence and education, on top of the being in HIS grace,

and have thought of everything possible and given the answers to everything that we may ask.

 

Let us "never" ever think that we, with this very limited knowledge can ever

do better than them. Let us pray to the lord that all the believers stay in

this path and not try to create new rules and religions

under the guise of SriViashnvam.

 

I end this thread in the words of Mamunikal,

 

"MunnOr mozhinda muRai thappAmal kETTu

pinnOrndhu thAm adanaippEsAde * tham nenjil

thORRinadhE solli – idu suddha upadEsavara

VARRadenbar – mUrkarAvAr - (URM 71) "

==============================================