Caste System - Walking the walk or Just Talking the talk

[Guest guest]

Sri:

Adiyen's pranam to all Devotees:

 

Multiple questions from other devotees addressed in this mail.

 

Q1: How come no madadhipathis and Acharya Pururhsas are non-brahmins?

Q2: How come there are no great scholars, writers and upanyasakas among

non-brahmins?

Q3: Why are non-brahmins not in services in temple?

 

Are all the talk about all caste are treated equal in Srivaishanvam just

"talk".

 

 

=====In this mail ========================================

=> Madadhipathis still need Upaveetham and have Vaidhika duties

=> There are many scholars, writers and upanyasakas who are non-brahmins,

women and from other religion with a Brahmin following.

=> A personal question for all to think (please read carefully and answer)

======================================================

 

 

=> Madadhipathis still need Upaveetham and have Vaidhika duties

===========================================

Sri Thirukoviloor Jeeyar Swami, has many thousands of sishyas

most of them are for lack of a better word, backward castes and very poor.

 

Many of them do not have ample and good housing, clothes or food, but know

the 4000,

Mummukshuppadi (rahsya grantham), SriVachanaBhooshanam etc by heart

and have learnt the meanings over and over again.

 

He says,

==="Our sishyas even though they know the arulicheyal material better that

many Brahmins,

they never try to boast their knowledge and seem to cry in the anubhavams.

These tears of anubhavams are all the joy a devotee needs.

 

None of them ever came to me asking, "let me be the next Jeeyar or the

Archaka".

This is because they are in the anubhavam and they are in the sampradaya.

They know the material and they know that only one with upaveetham can do all

Veidhika duties attached to the duties of the Madadhipathi. " ====

 

PS: Though usually Jeeyars (yathis) cannot do AgniKariyam, they still have

other duties,

and the agni kariyam done before any samashreyanam is done under the

supervision of the Jeeyar.

 

=> Non-Brahmin scholars in todays world:

================================

There are many non-brahmin scholars and upanyasakas

and they are accepted by "brahmin" srivaishnavas as well.

 

D.A Joeseph Bhagawathar:

=====================

He is extremely popular and has received the title "Vaishanva Sudaraazhi"

and is writing an article series in the current Geethacharyan

(a magazine by Dr. MA Venkartakrishana - Brahmin run magazine)

he has many books, upanyasams and following.

 

Sri Purushottama Naidu Swamin: The most popular tamil translation of

Eedu, (the Vykhyanam for 4000) that

many Brahmins carry is of Sri Purushottama Naidu. Many brahmins

refer to him and owe allegance to

his work.

 

Sri Pandithia Krisha Veni Ammiar (a woman): Very famous for Mumukshuppadi

Vyakhyanam and books.

Sri SubbuReddiar Swamin, Nathalla Sampath Chettiar and many many others.

I can give you many examples of current day scholars, upanyasakas and

writers who are non-brahmins

and others who came from other faith and still carry their original faith

name, sri Ali Swamin, Joeseph Swamin etc.

 

There are Brahmins who sit in their upanyasa goshti and enjoy the divine

nectar.

 

 

In Sri Vaishnavam all are equal.

In Veidhikam, all are still equal in the eyes of the LORD and in their

capacity to love him

and to attain moksha, but only certain people can perform certain tasks.

Those are the

rules in Veidhikam.

 

Allow me to elaborate:

 

=> A personal question for all to think and Answer.

======================================================

Knowing well that tri-kala sandhya is the basic requirement to even qualify to

perform Veidhika Karyams like homam, yagyams etc.

 

** Would a non-brahmin devotee with faith call for a non-brahmin preist to

perform any Veidhika agni-karyam in his home for his home function.

 

** Would a brahmin devotee with faith call for a non-brahmin preist to

perform any Veidhika agni-karyam in his home for his home function.

 

If the answer to both is "NO", then think why would anyone say YES do this

to the Temple (esp. Dhivya Desams)

======================================================================

 

True devotees know and respect these rules. If service to Lord in the

temple is the intention,

there are many ways to serve. There are many devotee non-brahmins engaged

in temple service

and they never come forward seeking the any Vaidhika service that

specifically needs brahmins.

 

I do agree that there are many brahmin priests who are not following the

rules,

and that needs to be addressed and specified rules need to be implemented.

 

 

 

Azhvar Emberumanar Jeeyar ThiruvadigalE sharanam

 

adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan

Mukundan Vangkipuram Pattangi

 

http://www.radioramanuja.com http://www.vedics.net

[Guest guest]

Jai Sri Krishna

I would like to thank Bhaktha Pattangi for clearing our doubts in regard to Srivaishnavam and Varna. I think we can conclude that within that Sri Ramanuja upheld the Vedic rules of Varna ashrama, but made cleat the position all devotees have within the system of Bhagavath Bhakthi, and in doing so gave a lot of encouragement and selfesteem to non-brahmin people.

However in reply to the point raised by Bhaktha Pattangi regarding non-brahmins becoming acharayas, i just wanted to know what position Sri Rama Ramanuja acarya holds in the sampradaya. Sri Rama Ramanuja acarya, established the Australian branch of the Sri Yatiraja Jeeyar Matham. Sri Rama Ramanuja acarya clearly holds an esteemed position in the matham, but is often White Western origin and i am curious as waht is his position (is he a acharaya etc..) and how that fits in with the rules of Varnashrama.

Thank you.

Pattangi <danp (AT) uic (DOT) edu> wrote:

Sri:

Adiyen's pranam to all Devotees:

 

Multiple questions from other devotees addressed in this mail.

 

Q1: How come no madadhipathis and Acharya Pururhsas are non-brahmins?

Q2: How come there are no great scholars, writers and upanyasakas among non-brahmins?

Q3: Why are non-brahmins not in services in temple?

 

Are all the talk about all caste are treated equal in Srivaishanvam just "talk".

 

 

=====In this mail ========================================

=> Madadhipathis still need Upaveetham and have Vaidhika duties

=> There are many scholars, writers and upanyasakas who are non-brahmins,

women and from other religion with a Brahmin following.

=> A personal question for all to think (please read carefully and answer)

======================================================

 

 

=> Madadhipathis still need Upaveetham and have Vaidhika duties

===========================================

Sri Thirukoviloor Jeeyar Swami, has many thousands of sishyas

most of them are for lack of a better word, backward castes and very poor.

 

Many of them do not have ample and good housing, clothes or food, but know the 4000,

Mummukshuppadi (rahsya grantham), SriVachanaBhooshanam etc by heart

and have learnt the meanings over and over again.

 

He says,

==="Our sishyas even though they know the arulicheyal material better that many Brahmins,

they never try to boast their knowledge and seem to cry in the anubhavams.

These tears of anubhavams are all the joy a devotee needs.

 

None of them ever came to me asking, "let me be the next Jeeyar or the Archaka".

This is because they are in the anubhavam and they are in the sampradaya.

They know the material and they know that only one with upaveetham can do all

Veidhika duties attached to the duties of the Madadhipathi. " ====

 

PS: Though usually Jeeyars (yathis) cannot do AgniKariyam, they still have other duties,

and the agni kariyam done before any samashreyanam is done under the supervision of the Jeeyar.

 

=> Non-Brahmin scholars in todays world:

================================

There are many non-brahmin scholars and upanyasakas

and they are accepted by "brahmin" srivaishnavas as well.

 

D.A Joeseph Bhagawathar:

=====================

He is extremely popular and has received the title "Vaishanva Sudaraazhi"

and is writing an article series in the current Geethacharyan

(a magazine by Dr. MA Venkartakrishana - Brahmin run magazine)

he has many books, upanyasams and following.

 

Sri Purushottama Naidu Swamin: The most popular tamil translation of Eedu, (the Vykhyanam for 4000) that

many Brahmins carry is of Sri Purushottama Naidu. Many brahmins refer to him and owe allegance to

his work.

 

Sri Pandithia Krisha Veni Ammiar (a woman): Very famous for Mumukshuppadi Vyakhyanam and books.

Sri SubbuReddiar Swamin, Nathalla Sampath Chettiar and many many others.

I can give you many examples of current day scholars, upanyasakas and writers who are non-brahmins

and others who came from other faith and still carry their original faith name, sri Ali Swamin, Joeseph Swamin etc.

 

There are Brahmins who sit in their upanyasa goshti and enjoy the divine nectar.

 

 

In Sri Vaishnavam all are equal.

In Veidhikam, all are still equal in the eyes of the LORD and in their capacity to love him

and to attain moksha, but only certain people can perform certain tasks. Those are the

rules in Veidhikam.

 

Allow me to elaborate:

 

=> A personal question for all to think and Answer.

======================================================

Knowing well that tri-kala sandhya is the basic requirement to even qualify to

perform Veidhika Karyams like homam, yagyams etc.

 

** Would a non-brahmin devotee with faith call for a non-brahmin preist to

perform any Veidhika agni-karyam in his home for his home function.

 

** Would a brahmin devotee with faith call for a non-brahmin preist to

perform any Veidhika agni-karyam in his home for his home function.

 

If the answer to both is "NO", then think why would anyone say YES do this to the Temple (esp. Dhivya Desams)

======================================================================

 

True devotees know and respect these rules. If service to Lord in the temple is the intention,

there are many ways to serve. There are many devotee non-brahmins engaged in temple service

and they never come forward seeking the any Vaidhika service that specifically needs brahmins.

 

I do agree that there are many brahmin priests who are not following the rules,

and that needs to be addressed and specified rules need to be implemented.

 

 

Azhvar Emberumanar Jeeyar ThiruvadigalE sharanam

 

adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan

Mukundan Vangkipuram Pattangi

 

http://www.radioramanuja.com http://www.vedics.net

[vrajavasi]

Radhe Krishna,

 

Radhe krishna to all Shri vaishnava devotees.

 

I am a smartha doing nithya paaraayana of Shrimad Bhagawatham.

 

Shri pattangi, you have given your explanations in an eloquant and exceptional way explaining spiritual status of non brahmins ( even those who belong to mathanthara) and what duties are not supposedly meant for them.

But what is destined by Bhagawan in kaliyuga - that things go berserk - would have to happen . -- it is only the question of time -

This is only prathama paada of kali yuga - and how things are so fastly happening this way -

only scholars who are interested in sanaathana dharma can shed light on this aspect.

Till then I feel we should atleast rectify ourselves - do our nithya naimithika karmas - as ordained by god dutifully.

I remember what is once said by Mukkur Shri Lakshmi Nrusimhachariyar :

When asked - inspite of the fact that prakruthis as cruel as hiranyakashipu are loitering freely in the current age, why Bhagawan is not coming for sadhu rakshanam?

to which he said - Although there are many people like hiranyakashipu in the current age, there is not a single soul like prahlada. Once there is a soul like prahlada - nrusimha would appear tathkshanam.

 

Radhe Krishna

[Guest guest]

the problem with caste with birth is it does not account for the millions of converts to Hinduism. Hinduism is a global religion now; and in most countries there is no caste system. So what caste are converts placed into?

[Guest guest]

 

the problem with caste with birth is it does not account for the millions of converts to Hinduism. Hinduism is a global religion now; and in most countries there is no caste system. So what caste are converts placed into?

 

also, how will other races become priests? we need to have priests from all races, like every other major world religion has representives of all colors. Hinduism is not a racist religion.