atma

[Guest guest]

hare krishna,

 

if "atma" is situated in the heart then what about heart transplant?

want happens to the atma? how does the atma enters the new heart while the old heart is removed. Dont u think the 'atma' will be still in the old heart? how is it possible for the atma to jump into the new heart? im very curious to know this.....

 

hari bol

[Dwayne]

Atma is not material, but rather spiritual. The modern doctors cannot see the Atma let alone move the Atma so don't be worried.

[Guest guest]

atma does not dwell in the physical heart. The term heart is just an expression; it is never meant to be literal. The atma dwells within the chakra system.

[Guest guest]

Why do raja yogis claim the atma, or God, is seated in the ajnea chakra or somewhere around there?

[Guest guest]

atma does not dwell in the physical heart. The term heart is just an expression; it is never meant to be literal. The atma dwells within the chakra system.

 

 

thank you.

[Guest guest]

 

Why do raja yogis claim the atma, or God, is seated in the ajnea chakra or somewhere around there?

 

I would like to know this as well. Which chakra is the atman seated in?

[Guest guest]

 

I would like to know this as well. Which chakra is the atman seated in?

 

"With words and logic, you get nothing" - Bhoganathar

 

It is nice to know these things.. but these are not important. Please do not waste time in these things which you do not understand. How does it matter if Atman resides in which chakra? How does it help you? (sorry if I am curt)

 

I am hurt deeply when people forget to improve themselves but ask meaningless question that bear no result on spritual progress.

 

Atman is all pervading. There is only one Atman.

 

For heavens sake, you'll know about chakras at appropriate point of evolution. Your Guru will take you there. As of now, show devotion to Lord and practise some meditation or recitation of mantra.

 

That should suffice.

 

Sriram

[Guest guest]

excuse me, but this is a spiritual/hindu discussion board? so discussing and asking questions is appropriate here. Why would you get so bent out of shape because someone asks what chakra the atman dwells in? if it dwells in any particular one at all. (note: I have heard from the heart to third eye chakra.)

 

when someone asks you what is the soul (atman), it is nice to be able to tell them based on spiritual knowledge not on feelings and emotions. Spiritual seekers ask questions. This is how they learn. Many of us would never even have known about reincarnation, whether there is an atman (buddhist say there isn't), if it weren't for our sincere enqueries.

 

Don't get me wrong, these enqueries must go well beyond asking questions on forums, and extend to meditation practices, if we are to realize the Self.

[Guest guest]

 

Atman is all pervading.

 

I agree. The soul is not bound by one chakra. It transcends time and space.

 

 

There is only one Atman.

 

Not sure about this. Even though we are all one and connected, don't we also have individual souls?

[Guest guest]

 

excuse me, but this is a spiritual/hindu discussion board? so discussing and asking questions is appropriate here.

 

when someone asks you what is the soul (atman), it is nice to be able to tell them based on spiritual knowledge not on feelings and emotions.

 

You are right...i agree with you.

besides we are not wasting time . its spiritual science that amazed people like me.unlike others , who spend most of their entire life in gosips and finding faults on others, we are merely asking some questions on spiritualism. is that a big issue? nothing wrong with that...come on.

 

if anyone finds this isnt important, why not let others to reply instead.

[theist]

 

I agree. The soul is not bound by one chakra. It transcends time and space.

 

 

 

Not sure about this. Even though we are all one and connected, don't we also have individual souls?

 

Yes we are individual souls

[Guest guest]

 

excuse me, but this is a spiritual/hindu discussion board?

 

when someone asks you what is the soul (atman), it is nice to be able to tell them based on spiritual knowledge not on feelings and emotions. Spiritual seekers ask questions. This is how they learn. Many of us would never even have known about reincarnation, whether there is an atman (buddhist say there isn't), if it weren't for our sincere enqueries.

 

Don't get me wrong, these enqueries must go well beyond asking questions on forums, and extend to meditation practices, if we are to realize the Self.

 

I agree with you that I do get emotional sometimes - My idea is not to discourage learning but sometimes people get stuck in gathering unwanted (in my opinion) data. By His Grace, I have experienced the ascent of Force through the chakra. When it comes it takes one by surprise. No amount of preparation is sufficient to handle the Force. It tears you apart.

 

No amount of words will explain that. Tantric scriptures say that the experience can be compared to a creeper growing around a tree, but replace the creeper with a lightning bolt and tree with our body. That is the approximation.

 

To experience this, we need Sadhana. Reckless, continuos, spirited Sadhana. It doesnt help to ask a question like this - We only feed the mind. The mind is the root cause of all pain.

 

If someone wants to know Hinduism from theoretical angle, it is ok! We can answer these questions. But I disagree that one needs to know answers to these questions for spiritual evolution, which is a totally different thing.

 

Thanks for pointing out!

 

Sriram

[Guest guest]

 

Yes we are individual souls

 

There is only One. And the One alone Is.

 

Atman / Brahman / Self / ParaBrahman are one and the same. Mithya-vaadam of Sri Sankara proves the delusory nature of the world.

 

If God is complete (purnam) how can something apart from God. Does it not make the God incomplete? If Paramatma and Jivatma are seperate does in not convey a incompleteness in Paramatma? (that there is something apart from Him)?

 

To answer, according to Dwaitins, There are many souls, and God is super Soul

 

According to Adwaita God alone Is. He can be addressed as the Atman. So, there is only one Atman.

 

Sriram

[Guest guest]

 

There is only One. And the One alone Is.

 

Atman / Brahman / Self / ParaBrahman are one and the same. Mithya-vaadam of Sri Sankara proves the delusory nature of the world.

 

If God is complete (purnam) how can something apart from God. Does it not make the God incomplete? If Paramatma and Jivatma are seperate does in not convey a incompleteness in Paramatma? (that there is something apart from Him)?

 

To answer, according to Dwaitins, There are many souls, and God is super Soul

 

According to Adwaita God alone Is. He can be addressed as the Atman. So, there is only one Atman.

 

Sriram

 

according to your beliefs, do you believe that we will continue to exist as "individuals" when we obtain moksha? why would anyone want to strive for moksha, if it means losing all self-awareness? I like being an individual. I do not agree with nihilism.

 

It is a horrifying thought to me to think we can't remember anything when we obtain moksha and are absorbed into an ocean, where drops (jivas) cease to exist as individuals. I do not believe this is desirable.

 

I do not believe Nirvana = non-existence. It rather means our souls are returned to their natural state of Sat-Chit-Ananda.

 

It is not just Gaudiyas that believe like this. Jains also believe they we always remain as individual souls. And in other sects they also teach this.

[Guest guest]

 

according to your beliefs, do you believe that we will continue to exist as "individuals" when we obtain moksha? why would anyone want to strive for moksha, if it means losing all self-awareness? I like being an individual. I do not agree with nihilism.

 

It is a horrifying thought to me to think we can't remember anything when we obtain moksha and are absorbed into an ocean, where drops (jivas) cease to exist as individuals. I do not believe this is desirable.

 

I do not believe Nirvana = non-existence. It rather means our souls are returned to their natural state of Sat-Chit-Ananda.

 

It is not just Gaudiyas that believe like this. Jains also believe they we always remain as individual souls. And in other sects they also teach this.

 

There is a difference between wanting to believe and the Truth. Christians belief there is no other way than Jesus. Would you like to believe them too? (Btw, Jesus is respected as Esa Nathar in Siddha followers)

 

Om Tat Sat.

[theist]

 

To answer, according to Dwaitins, There are many souls, and God is super Soul

 

According to Adwaita God alone Is. He can be addressed as the Atman. So, there is only one Atman.

 

Mahaprabhu and His devotees teach acintya bhedabheda tattva. That the ultimate realization is that we are inconceivably one and different from Krsna.

 

Not totally one nor totally separate but both simultaneously. This is the realization I seek to learn from them. Advaita is most unattractive. Simple dualism is not complete.

[Guest guest]

 

Mahaprabhu and His devotees teach acintya bhedabheda tattva. That the ultimate realization is that we are inconceivably one and different from Krsna.

 

Not totally one nor totally separate but both simultaneously. This is the realization I seek to learn from them.

 

As long as you understand what it means, I am happy.

 

 

Advaita is most unattractive. Simple dualism is not complete.

 

I think it is a personal opinion. Adwaitins are people who believe in that the final state is One. God alone Is. Not that they think they are God already.

 

To reach that state we do need a lot of devotion, in which people worship Sri Hari, Shiva, Ganesh, Shakti, Subrahmanya etc. (Sri Sankara Bhagawatpada wrote Bhasya for Visnu Sahasranama prior to anyother work).

 

It is not a question of believable / unbelievable, attractive / unatrractive, easy / hard etc. The question is Truth.

 

I think we have a long way to go before dwaita / adwaita / vishistadwaita kind of differences kick in. Looks like most of us are in kintergarden but fighting over stuff that is like special theory of relativity. We havent reached there yet.

 

Most of the time I post in these Hare Krishna groups, esp to vent my displeasure of viewing a monotheistic block within the framework of Hinduism. Hinduism and more importantly God is too Huge to be confined witin a single unified framework.

 

I wouldnt bother about ISKCON if they dont insult or demean followers of other faiths. But thats what they do. calling others rascals, calling others' Gods as demigods, quoting incoherent passages from various texts to prove superiority of Vishnu, but when people quote back, calling those texts as irrelevant or tamasic etc. I HATE this.

 

I am sure there will be lot of hate mail or flames for this message too. I cant help. For every devotee of of other God (be Shiva, Subrahmanya, or Jesus or Prophet) that is hurt because of nonsensical posts of Hare Krishna people, it will HURT ISKCON real hard. It is the theory of Karma.

 

Of all, I neednt worry about this. I cling to my faith and I am positive I'll be uplifted by God (ISKCON neednt worry if I'll become a demon in the planet of some demigod (how stupid) )

 

If you wake up, then you shall see. But it is all upto you guys to wake up or stay asleep.

 

Sriram

[Guest guest]

 

There is a difference between wanting to believe and the Truth.

 

You have dodged the question. Please answer the question that I previously posted:

 

according to your beliefs, do you believe that we will continue to exist as "individuals" when we obtain moksha?

 

I believe we each have separate souls. Only buddhist and psuedo-buddhists deny we have souls.

[Guest guest]

When we become siddhas (perfected ones) and realize we are One with Brahman, I do not believe individual awareness is lost. Our awareness is simply expanded and we become omniscient beings. In this state, we realize how all is interconnected, so there is no pretense of separation. Yet there is still multiplicity within oneness.

 

It's rather like accessing a universal consciousness. Like when we all sign onto the internet, we each have access to the same source of information, but yet we are each individual users. I believe we are all individual sparks of the collective Mind, who we can call God/Source/Infinite Itelligience/or whatever name you want to call it.

[theist]

 

I think it is a personal opinion. Adwaitins are people who believe in that the final state is One. God alone Is. Not that they think they are God already. -sriram

 

I am not so sure how well you understand Advaita sriram. Of course they say everyone and everything is God right now. What they can't explain is how this one lonely God was over taken by maya and placed under the illusion that He/ She/ It had in fact become many when when in truth their is only one lonely God.

 

The idea that the Supreme Lord is placed under illusion in the first place is absurd and only equaled by the belief that God must take to a process of self-realization to regain His awareness that He alone exists.

 

Advaita gives the impression of a poor lonely and confused God.

 

You are bother by what we say and you must know we are bother by what you say. The idea that one can approach any "form of the Divine" worship that form and so-called "love that form" to the point to where they disappear into the divinity behind that form to us sounds rather silly. And the fact that people call this excercise in futility "Bhakti-yoga" is especially maddening.

 

The advaitains have no access to Bhakti and we simply ask that they stop saying they do and confusing so many people thereby.

 

Take your pick but don't pretend they are all the same paths...THEY ARE NOT.

[Guest guest]

 

When we become siddhas (perfected ones) and realize we are One with Brahman, I do not believe individual awareness is lost. Our awareness is simply expanded and we become omniscient beings. In this state, we realize how all is interconnected, so there is no pretense of separation. Yet there is still multiplicity within oneness.

 

It's rather like accessing a universal consciousness. Like when we all sign onto the internet, we each have access to the same source of information, but yet we are each individual users. I believe we are all individual sparks of the collective Mind, who we can call God/Source/Infinite Itelligience/or whatever name you want to call it.

 

So once we are on this universal conciousness what do we do? Simply watch the world go by? Since if we have become self realized and merge into brahman, its gonna be a bit like big brother for eternity =O lol

 

So we attain moksha and become omniscient and keep individuality but to do what? If not to serve the lord then what is it that we do? If we become self realised, merge into one or become omniscient beings what exactly do we do? Since if still maintain individuality then there must still be the desire to serve since that is the nature of the soul.Why would it be desirable to merge into one?

[Guest guest]

 

So once we are on this universal conciousness what do we do? Simply watch the world go by? Since if we have become self realized and merge into brahman, its gonna be a bit like big brother for eternity =O lol

 

So we attain moksha and become omniscient and keep individuality but to do what? If not to serve the lord then what is it that we do? If we become self realised, merge into one or become omniscient beings what exactly do we do? Since if still maintain individuality then there must still be the desire to serve since that is the nature of the soul.Why would it be desirable to merge into one?

 

Nirvana is beyond description, but it is not non-existence - it is complete existence. It is Sat-Chit-Ananda.

 

we are not going to be eternal slaves of a deity, like the Christians and Muslims teach. The Upanishads describe something far more glorious. The realization that Thou Art That. Complete Non-dual awareness, where all creation is seen as the radiant display of of our own consciousness.

[theist]

 

we are not going to be eternal slaves of a deity, like the Christians and Muslims teach. The Upanishads describe something far more glorious. The realization that Thou Art That. Complete Non-dual awareness, where all creation is seen as the radiant display of of our own consciousness.

 

WE? OUR?

[Guest guest]

 

WE? OUR?

 

You are quoting my post. Just so you know, I am not an Advaitin. I am still on the path of enlightenment, so I do not claim to be a Self-Realized Master. But I do believe we remain as individual souls when we obtain moksha, I agree with Gaudiyas, Jains, etc on this.

 

What I disagree with is those who state moksha means we will go to heaven and worship before a throne for all eternity. This is a belief of the Abrahamic religions that I do not share. I think Nirvana is full-existence but all we will be doing/experiencing I cannot say.

[Guest guest]

omg!

atma is pure consciousness, it is not "situated" anywhere!!!

 

jeez!!!

 

atman is all pervasive, it is the Absolute!

 

it is not a mere "soul" - limited. it is infinite consciousness! awareness!

 

do u not know anything!??