Guest guest Posted January 28, 2000 Report Share Posted January 28, 2000 Dear Madhava Gosh prabhu, You may be right, but the first cases that come to my mind are ones that involved a devotee I knew and worked with, and a devotee whose case I worked on as part of a child protection team. In both cases, the molesters were married men. Molesters are often married, but still carrying out their despicable activities. Sometimes being married provides them with a good cover, conferring an appearance of 'normalcy' on what may be a very twisted individual. In other words, being married is no guarantee that someone isn't a pervert. And being a brahmachari should not be misconstrued as a "risk factor." For example, in our community one brahmachari was trying to keep the failing boy's school going. The boys'school was failing, in part, because of revelations about Muralivadaka's molesting some of boys. The brahmachari is a very nice devotee, first-class in all respects. One senior grhastha devotee was railing against him, however, simply because he was a brahmachari. Practically he was being attacked for being a brahmachari and doing the service of teaching. By the way, Muralivadaka is a grhastha who had been one of the most highly respected authorites on education in ISKCON. He was also head of ISKCON Child Protection in North America!!!! I hope that no one had dismissed any early evidence of his crimes, thinking that "Oh, he's a grhastha - he would never do that." Your servant, Pancha Tattva dasa On 25 Jan 2000, Madhava Gosh wrote: > > > > > > Possibly, if Sri Galim knew that he would not have been condemned for these > > desires and could go somewhere to satisfy these demands of the body and > > return to his service he could have been a great asset. > > Once he was married, he was never know to mess with kids again, that is > factual. Only while being a brahmacari. My guess is most molesters were > celibates. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2000 Report Share Posted January 29, 2000 > > > By the way, Muralivadaka is a grhastha who had been one of the most highly > respected authorites on education in ISKCON. He was also head of ISKCON Child > Protection in North America!!!! I hope that no one had dismissed any early > evidence of his crimes, thinking that "Oh, he's a grhastha - he would never do > that." > > Your servant, > > Pancha Tattva dasa The question I would ask, is, was he a grhastra when the alleged molestations took place? My understandung is he is another case where they took place in the past and were not ongoing. Another question would be, even as a ghrahastra, was he artificially maintaining a standard of celibacy within his marriage? That certainly went on in NV. Of the molesters at NV, none were grhastras. Of the two eventually well known ones, Sri Galim was never known to do so after his marriage, but RVC Swami did have another allegation made against him, even after these horrid things had began to come to light. I know that in general society, molesters often marry to give themselves a cover, but in ISKCON, celibacy was not only acceptable, but actively and almost viciously promoted, so there was no need for molesters to have a cover. There is some differentiation amongst molestors. Just like in prisons, long term prisoners may have homosexual affairs they would never have had given a hetro option, but driven by sexual urges, take what release is available. So had Sri Galim not been in a situation where in order to have some prestige, it was necessary to maintain the appearance of celibacy, the unfortunate incidents may never have occured. Of course, he can certainly be faulted in any case for his desire for prestige, so the result is no way justified by his circumstances, don't get me wrong. But when organising a society, we need to bring a little realism to it, so as to not create situations where borderline cases are pushed over the edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2000 Report Share Posted January 29, 2000 "COM: Madhava Gosh (das) ACBSP (New Vrindavan - USA)" wrote: > [Text 2969913 from COM] > > > There is some differentiation amongst molestors. Just like in prisons, long > term prisoners may have homosexual affairs they would never have had given a > hetro > option, but driven by sexual urges, take what release is available. So had > Sri > Galim not been in a situation where in order to have some prestige, it was > necessary to maintain the appearance of celibacy, the unfortunate incidents > may > never have occured. I think there is some research along similar lines, called something like: the Phenomenon of the English Boy's Schools. The finding of this research was that in situation where there were no women around, men who would not normally be involved in child molestation did take up this practice. Some men who do it have a certain psychological instability which compels them to do it, even when there are women available. But other men develop some kind of instability only when there are no women available. I know very little about this research. I have only heard about it second hand. But, it does point to the fact that as long as we treat child molesters as simple sinners who have the power to refrain from their perverted acts -- then we will continue to see our children victimized by them. We must recognize that child abuse is a manifestation of some kind of psychological imbalance. If we have a better understanding of the psychological issues involved, we can have meaningful screening of those involved with children to make sure we do not include people who are susceptible to this problem. We do not leave a three year old with a plate of sweets to be offered to the Lord. That will only encourage him to perform some sinful act. Rather, we might engage that child in collecting flowers for the Lord. That way he makes advancement. Similarly, if by psychological testing we can recognize those with troublesome personality types, then we can steer them away from service where they are likely to commit sinful activity -- and towards service where they can perform productive devotional service. Simultaneously, we can guide them to corrective therapy and medicinal treatment where appropriate. This is the real way to protect our children from violence -- not just to shake our fingers at the psychologically imbalanced and admonish: "Now don't you commit any sinful activities." your servant, Hare Krsna dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2000 Report Share Posted January 30, 2000 Dear Mother Hare Krishna, Very nice, thoughtful post. I hope all of society, not just ISKCON, can make progress in averting child abuse. I think you've got the right idea. Now, how to make it work.... Your servant, Pancha Tattva dasa On 29 Jan 2000, Hare Krsna dasi wrote, in part: > Similarly, if by psychological testing we can recognize those with troublesome > personality types, then we can steer them away from service where they are > likely > to commit sinful activity -- and towards service where they can perform > productive > devotional service. Simultaneously, we can guide them to corrective therapy > and > medicinal treatment where appropriate. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2000 Report Share Posted January 30, 2000 At 8:13 -0800 1/29/2000, COM: Madhava Gosh (das) ACBSP (New Vrindavan - USA) wrote: >The question I would ask, is, was he a grhastra when the alleged >molestations >took place? My understandung is he is another case where they took place in >the past and were not ongoing. I think he was, but I can't swear by it. Maybe someone else who was at Lake Huntington can answer that one? >Another question would be, even as a ghrahastra, was he >artificially maintaining >a standard of celibacy within his marriage? That certainly went on in NV. That may well have been the case. His wife is known to have been very sick for a long time, although no one knows exactly what is wrong with her. They have no children. >There is some differentiation amongst molestors. Just like in prisons, long >term prisoners may have homosexual affairs they would never have had given a >hetro option, but driven by sexual urges, take what release is available. Very true. There is more than one reason for these behaviors. We have encountered many men in our work, besides prisoners (e.g. sailors, truck drivers, and migrant workers living in barracks), who have sex with other men, due to lack of availability of women. When women are around and available, this behavior often ceases. While some molesters are simply "turned on" by kids, others are very immature socially and can't handle adult intimacy. Yet others feel safer having sex with kids because they can often be scared into silence. Desire for prestige certainly plays a role in many of these cases, especially when the appearance of celibacy and of being renounced are thought to be important for one's status in the community. I'm not excusing what any of these individuals did, but we also have to look into the possible role our community norms may play. Are we helping to create these monsters, by our tendency to condemn devotees for not strictly following and by overly elevating those who are presenting themselves as "strict devotees"? Maybe we'd be better off being less judgmental in this regard? After all, aren't our spiritual practices primarily between ourselves, guru and Krsna? Wouldn't we be better off simply showing tolerance for each others' weaknesses and being supportive of and nurturing each others' efforts, even if these are imperfect? Ys, Madhusudani dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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