Gurukula Lawsuit Special - The Facts

[Guest guest]

> Was that what Prabhupada really wanted?

> How to maintain a family by being only a priest in a temple?

 

You can show the deity and then ask for a donation,

 

But I guess that was not really what Srila Prabhupada wanted.

 

"My Guru Maharaja used to say that if one is inclined to collect money by

showing Deity, it is better to become a sweeper in the street. It is better

to become a sweeper in the street, because he’s earning his livelihood

honestly." (Lecture, Bg. 9.2 -- Calcutta, March 8, 1972)

[Guest guest]

>I would say that the spiritual knowledge could be offerd by ISKCON in some

>separate after-school or Sunday school arrangement but the material

>knowledge should be taught outside of ISKCON (at least as long as ISKCON

>doesn't have enough educated teachers to teach all the skills needed to run

>a society).

 

 

I agree wholeheartedly. The Chowpatty temple sends its boys to the

local (non-ISKCON) school during the day and has KC classes for them

mornings and afternoons. My children's Jewish and Catholic friends

have Hebrew and catechism school once or twice a week after school

and on weekends. Both models eem to work pretty well in terms of

providing spiritual education. In the vast majority of ISKCON

communities, we currently only have the option of sending our

children to boarding school or teach them ourselves. I realize that

there are a few days schools, but they are few and it's very unusual

that they have any trained and accredited teachers. More temples seem

to be organizing Sunday schools recently, which is nice.

 

>I would suggest that the grihasthas who have children could get together and

>make a school outside of ISKCON's juridiction where the children are taught

>what is needed to know to be able to get a job so that they can maintain a

>family.

 

A good idea, *if* those schools have trained teachers. If not, we may

be better off moving to communities where there are many other

devotees and sending our children to e.g. the same Montessori or

Waldorf schools (which are likely to have many vegetarians) or even

to the local public school, if it is good. At least that way, they

will have the company of other devotee kids and not be the only ones

without meat in their lunch boxes. It might also make it easier to

set up an afterschool or Sunday school program if their friends who

live nearby attend too.

 

 

>At the present moment I think we should just realize that 99.99% of the

>youth will just want to get married, have children and a job with which they

>can support their family with. To deprive the children from that possibility

>would not be wise in my opinion.

 

I agree. Even though many of us may have disagreements with our own

parents, we have to admit that they typically raised us with options.

Most of us (at least in the West) had the possibility of either

studying at university, get non-university job training, or drop out

of society all together. Don't we owe our children the same options,

even if we think we know "what's best for them"?

 

>To neglect giving the children an oportunity to become materially educated

>will be a big mistake. Then we are going to have a society with people who

>are uneducated plumbers, uneducated electricians, uneducated carpenters,

>uneducated teachers, uneducated doctors and nurses etc. etc. etc. who are

>working black and making a mess by breaking rules of the state but who knows

some slokas and chant Hare Krishna.

 

Hmmm..... Why do at least parts of that scenario sound so familiar?

 

>This will not impress educated people in the outer society to become

>devotees.

 

And it won't necessarily make the children into preachers anyway.

Some will grow up resentful and feel deprived of opportunities. It

won't even necessarily made them more Krsna Conscious. As we've seen,

some of them will take jobs that require no training - like flipping

burgers at MacDonalds.

 

Ys,

Madhusudani dasi

[Guest guest]

On 15 Aug 2000, Madhusudani Radha wrote:

 

> >I would say that the spiritual knowledge could be offerd by ISKCON in some

> >separate after-school or Sunday school arrangement but the material

> >knowledge should be taught outside of ISKCON (at least as long as ISKCON

> >doesn't have enough educated teachers to teach all the skills needed to run

> >a society).

>

>

> I agree wholeheartedly. The Chowpatty temple sends its boys to the

> local (non-ISKCON) school during the day and has KC classes for them

> mornings and afternoons. My children's Jewish and Catholic friends

> have Hebrew and catechism school once or twice a week after school

> and on weekends. Both models eem to work pretty well in terms of

> providing spiritual education. In the vast majority of ISKCON

> communities, we currently only have the option of sending our

> children to boarding school or teach them ourselves. I realize that

> there are a few days schools, but they are few and it's very unusual

> that they have any trained and accredited teachers. More temples seem

> to be organizing Sunday schools recently, which is nice.

 

> A good idea, *if* those schools have trained teachers. If not, we may

> be better off moving to communities where there are many other

> devotees and sending our children to e.g. the same Montessori or

> Waldorf schools (which are likely to have many vegetarians) or even

> to the local public school, if it is good. At least that way, they

> will have the company of other devotee kids and not be the only ones

> without meat in their lunch boxes. It might also make it easier to

> set up an afterschool or Sunday school program if their friends who

> live nearby attend too.

 

Why not have ISKCON schools? I'm not being even remotely facetious. My

daughter goes to the day school in Alachua and I wouldn’t want it any other

way. Laxmimoni’s school over all is doing quite well. Of course schools are

few and far in between, but why? There is even a devotee run Charter School in

Alachua, which is far better than a non-devotee education. There needs to be

some initiative on the parents part.

 

Having been on the school board in Gita Nagari, I well understand the

difficulty of organizing and maintaining a school. Let’s at least not let our

ideals drift and secularize if we are forced by circumstance to seek lesser

alternatives such as Montessori. Community based Krsna Conscious schools with

a high level of parental involvement can’t be beat.

 

YS

 

JvGs

[Guest guest]

On 16 Aug 2000, Madhusudani Radha wrote:

 

> At 23:26 -0400 8/15/2000, WWW: Jiva Goswami (Dasa) SDG (Newnansville

> FL - USA) wrote:

> >Why not have ISKCON schools? I'm not being even remotely facetious. My

> >daughter goes to the day school in Alachua and I wouldn't want it any other

> >way.

>

> That's great. You are fortunate to be in an area where the state (of

> Florida) is paying decent salaries to the teachers in the charter

> school and where there are sufficient ISKCON children to organize

> such a school. Most devotees around the world are not in such a

> situation though, so different models may need to be developed for

> them, including after-school and Sunday school programs to provide a

> spiritual education.

 

The charter school is not an ISKCON school, it just happens to be run by

devotees. She doesn't go to the there, she goes to the temple's day school.

This can be done in many places. At least some kind of cooperative home

schooling. There are single parents and dual income parents, but it still can

be done. That is one of the points of "community".

 

Supplemental after school programs are good and necessary for some, but is far

below ideal.

 

>

> The second issue (as indicated in the header) was Prabhupada's

> intentions for gurukula. *If*, as Adri suggested, gurukula is only

> supposed to train brahminically inclined boys to become preachers, we

> have to come up with alternatives for all the children who would be

> excluded from such an institution.

>

> Ys,

> Madhusudani dasi

 

I didn't read Adri's paper, as I first received it via unsolicited email

despite previous attempts to get off his list. A big no-no in my view of the

world. Given his present mindset, I have no reason to subject myself to his

opinions on much of anything. His agenda pervades all that I've seen from him.

 

If by gurukula one means a boarding school in a distant place, I agree that it

should only be for the exceptional. If it also meant that everyone else should

go to public school and tack on some Krsna Consciousness in their spare time,

I don't agree. Sometimes we make due with what we have, but again, let's not

secularize and unduly modify our ideals.

[Guest guest]

At 11:39 -0400 8/16/2000, WWW: Jiva Goswami (Dasa) SDG (Newnansville

FL - USA) wrote:

>I didn't read Adri's paper, as I first received it via unsolicited email

>despite previous attempts to get off his list.

 

I understand. Yet you commented on a thread that was in response to

his text. That may explain the misunderstanding. I'll send your the

relevant excerpt separarately, so that you can interpret Svarupa's,

Harsi's and my texts in context.

 

Ys,

Madhusudani dasi

[Guest guest]

> If by gurukula one means a boarding school in a distant place, I agree

> that it should only be for the exceptional. If it also meant that everyone

> else should go to public school and tack on some Krsna Consciousness in

> their spare time, I don't agree. Sometimes we make due with what we have,

> but again, let's not secularize and unduly modify our ideals.

 

What is so bad in secularizing? In some countrys like Romania as well as

many other countrys you are forced to do it anyway, since to get alowance

from the state to run a privat school for ones children is extremely

difficult if not imposible, if one does not have learned teachers and a well

set up program for education.

 

Were we not also in school and still became devotees of Krsna? I think it

all depends of ones own sincerety also, and not so much were one would go to

school, althogh it would be nice if one would have a privat school for ones

kids.

 

Harsi das