Thread 4: A prayer, ---honestly speaking

[Guest guest]

> Obviously you have not read any of the many Prabhupada quotes about

> varnashram which Janeshvara Prabhu used to post to this conference.

> Here is just one of them and there are hundreds of others which contradict

> your thesis:

>

> "Caitanya Mahaprabhu recommended, sthane sthita. And if they do not remain

> in the sthana, then the sahajiyas chanting will come. The sahajiyas also

> have beads but they have got three dozen women. this kind of chanting will

> go on. Just like our ....He was not fit for sannyasa but he was given

> sannyasa and five women he was attached and he disclosed.Therefore

> varnashrama dharma is required. Simply show bottle will not do. So the

> varnashrama dharma should be introduced al over the world and ...

> Satsvarupa: Introduced starting with ISKCON community?

> Prabhupada: Yes.Yes. Brahmana, kshatriyas. There must be regular

> education.

>

> ys Anantarupa das

 

Thank you Anantarupa Prabhu for posting that reference which clearly

confirms what many devotees are saying about the necessity for restructuring

the GBC based on varnasrama divisions. Srila Prabhupada warned us many times

that without such varnasrama division there will only be chas, the kind of

chaos we have seen in our Society for the last two decades. Let's hope the

GBC respond to our respectful and objective varnasrama restructure proposal.

 

ys

 

ada

[Guest guest]

>Where so you get the fantastic figure of 25%? If only 1/4 of society were

>grihasthas, who would support the other 75%?

 

I took it from the following purport in SB.

 

As for those who are not grhasthas-- the brahmacaris, vanaprasthas and

sannyasis-- they don't have to do anything but strive for advancement in

spiritual life. This means that three fourths of the entire population

should stop sense gratification and simply be engaged in the advancement of

Krsna consciousness. *Only one fourth of the population should be grhastha*,

and that should be according to laws of restricted sense gratification. The

grhasthas, vanaprasthas, brahmacaris and sannyasis should endeavor together

with their total energy to become Krsna conscious. This type of civilization

is called daiva-varnasrama. One of the objectives of the Krsna consciousness

movement is to establish this daiva-varnasrama, but not to encourage

so-called varnasrama without scientifically organized endeavor by human

society. (SB 7.14.10).

 

Some of us must take note that in the above purport Srila Prabhupada clearly

says *One* of the objectives of our movement is to establish daiva

Varnasrama, and it is not the only objective.

 

Thank you for your comment Prabhuji. It was refreshing.

 

Your humble servant,

Bhadra Govinda Das.

[Guest guest]

At 12:07 AM 9/12/00 +0900, Bhadra Govinda (das) JPS (Singapore - SG) wrote:

>>Where so you get the fantastic figure of 25%? If only 1/4 of society were

>>grihasthas, who would support the other 75%?

>

>I took it from the following purport in SB.

. . .

>(SB 7.14.10).

 

Thank you, prabhu. I thought I had heard it, but over all the years, it's

not always clear whether we've heard something from Srila Prabhupada or

from someone in an influential position with their own ideas, pushing them

forward under the guise Krishna consciousness (as when, some years ago, an

ISKCON "guru"--and he may not have been alone--preached that only sannyasis

could accept disciples, based on some clearly materialistic rationales, not

guru-sadhu-shastra). Srila Prabhupada further explains in a lecture given,

coincidentally, on my 19th birthday (I wish I had been there):

 

"Now, suppose if there are hundred person in a society, twenty-five percent

students, twenty-five percent retired life, and twenty-five percent

sannyäsa, renounced order of life. Now, out of 100 persons, seventy-five

percent, they are engaged in the service of the Supreme Lord. The rest

twenty-five percent who are gåhasthas, they are meant for sacrificing fifty

percent of their income for this seventy-five percent. That is the whole

program of varëäçrama-dharma. That is a kind of spiritual communism.

Spiritual communism. For spiritual advancement of a society, the whole

social order is so arranged that seventy-five percent of the people, they

are engaged in the matter of spiritual advancement of knowledge and

twenty-five percent of the population, those who are earning, those who in

family life, those who have got factories, business and so many things,

they should sacrifices fifty percent of their income for these seventy-five

percent persons who are engaged in spiritual emancipation. So that is the

whole program."

 

>Some of us must take note that in the above purport Srila Prabhupada clearly

>says *One* of the objectives of our movement is to establish daiva

>Varnasrama, and it is not the only objective.

 

Thanks for pointing this out. This may help us keep our exploration of

varnashrama in its proper context.

 

Your servant,

Babhru das