Encouraging celibacy

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhakti-tirtha Swami, Maharajas, and Prabhus.

Please accept my humble obeisances.

All glories to Srila prabhupada.

 

Thank you Maharaja for kindly taking precious time out of your schedule to

respond to questions you invited after one of your recent lectures. Thanks

also for providing substantial and relevant references from guru, sadhu, and

sastra as posted in your text below.

 

You've clarified that you used the word 'gay' in a broad sense, not meaning

homosexuals but rather people born with various eunuch-like gender problems.

You are saying that they also should be treated compassionately because they

too want to get free from material bondage owing to associating with

devotees. And you also stated ".... my conclusions were honoring celibacy

and following the 4 regs and compassionately encouraging everyone...." thus

making your postiion in that respect absolutley clear.

 

As mentioned before, anyone can walk into any of ISKCON temple, but when it

comes to living in an ISKCON ashram or community we need to be selective.

Basically we select only those who follow the regulative and devotional

principles, and all the rest can only visit. This point no one disuptes

because that is clearly what Srila Prabhupada wanted. But your broad style

of preaching is sometimes perceived as contrarily permissable and hence some

voices of concern arise from your well-wishers.

 

Srila prabhupada said homosexuality is demoniac; but didn't say the same

about the eunuchs, and this essentialy is your point. In your lecture you

were referring to not straight gays and lesbians but to others with various

complicated gender problems and how they could be accommodated

compassionatly, and not that any form of regulative principle breakage be

accommodated.

 

You are a very broad thinking preacher and have consequently given Krishna

consciousness to so many people and are no doubt very dear to Srila

Prabhupada. But it must also be said that in the past many of our

godbrothers did so many wonderful and then not so wonderful things before

crashing out to Maya. Maharaja, when you get into some of your 'broad areas

of preaching' it is understandable that some devotees are going to get the

shakes, thinking that you may suffer the same fate as others who tried so

hard to do so much for Srila Prabhupada. I believe it is only out of love

for you that devotees are voiceing their concerns. Your style of preaching

is to be far reaching while H.H. Bhakti Vikasa Maharaja is very conservative

but both of you are rendering so much very, very valuable service to Srila

Prabhupada. Perhaps BVS could sweeten the delivery of his loving concern for

you and perhaps you could move in a bit from those scary broad edges so that

you don't frighten us all! )

 

Thank you also for taking the time to explain the reasoning behind your

broad outreach in your writings which are beyond some devotees'

comprehension. Almost anything can be used in Krishna's service, that is our

philosophy of yukta-vairagya, but one has to be very advanced. Srila

Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur very contraversially demonstrated

yukta-vairagya when he drove a car (equal to a Rolls Royce in those days)

through the streets of Vrindavana/Mathura. So yukta-vairagya is very

important, but the same yukta-vairagya has destroyed many an ISKCON devotee

who was not sufficiently advanced, and that is the main concern of your

vocal well-wishers. We pray that Krishna empowers you unlimitedly with

advancement so that your yukta-vairagya does not cause you to forget

Krishna. Perhaps you could be compassionate upon us who get the jitters and

keep yourself away from those scary edges. ISKCON can hardly handle any more

big losses and therefore the loudness and strength of the voices of concern.

I know you think big, as did Srila Prabhupada and you really want to please

him in a big way. But it is Krishna only who can make the results of one's

preaching big or small. So from that perspective there is no need to get too

close to the dangerous edges of yukta-vairgya. Gaura Kisora Das Babaji

Maharaja had only one disciple but the result was really big, incredibly

big, because it was a result that was controlled by the the Supreme Lord

Krishna.

 

You can rest assured that all the devotees in ISKCON with all their

different perspectives are all your sincere well wishers. But perhaps

through them Krishna may be gently guiding you because you are so dear to

him. So please be merciful to us all and adjust things accordingly.

 

I really do wish you all the very best in your efforts to please Srila

prabhupada.

 

ys

 

ada

 

> Dear Ajamila das,

> Please accept my humble obeisances,

> All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

>

> I am always glad to hear from you for you are very dedicated in your

> services.

> There is a difference between open discussion and endorsement. Perhaps

> a problem also here is my use of the term gay man or third gender.

> I earlier said: "We should not lump all gays into the same category." I

> used gay in a rather broad sense. I didn't say homosexuals.

> I was thinking more of eunuchs and many who have a physical and

> chromosome issue, man as well as woman. For instance, there are people who

> are born with both genitals male and female. There are also those who are

> assigned one gender at birth by the doctors, and later as they

> mature find their body physically or biologically responding to different

> gender. These and other complicated cases are more numerous than most

> people are aware of, ask any gynecologist. I know of about ten cases.

> Never have I advocated illicit sex or deviant behavior. But yes, I do

> advocate trying to understand our as well as others particular body

> disease so we can rise above them. I am sorry some who have their agenda

> are trying to use me (I see this coming from two different opposite

> camps), put words into my mouth, etc. Whatever is perceived, my

> conclusions were honoring celibacy and following the 4 regs and

> compassionately encouraging everyone to rise above any various challenges

> so we can be first class in Srila Prabhupada's service. Some discussions

> can open up flood gates, but avoiding certain issues can increase

> underlying conflicts or cover over problems

> that are already existing.

> I hope these recent exchanges will help any of those who are in the

> <homosexual> communities who are trying to push on the movement

> anything that goes against dharma or sanatana dharma to stop. And I pray

> those recent exchanges on these important days will encourage more

> devotees to better understand various Vaisnavas suffering difficulties and

> struggles so we can all be more able to protect each other from maya in

> her gross and subtle forms. I pray all of us will do our part in

> protecting Srila Prabhupada's house by avoiding making offences towards

> each other and being more cautious in how we come to our conclusions. I

> will surely personally try to be more precise and clear in the future.

>

> Below are some references some of you asked for:

>

> 1. SB 10.1.69 - purport, a discussion on man woman or <in between>:

> <To distinguish persons that are bereft of these transcendental pleasures,

> Pariksit Maharaja has used the words <virajyeta puman>.

> The word puman refers to any person, whether man, woman, or in-between>

>

> 2. Tape #67-002 San Francisco 04/05/67

> Special attendent on Lord Caitanya's birth

>

> SP: (Srila Prabhupada) Jagannatha Misra is father. He was. whatever

> money and cloth and gold and silver. they were coming. he was also

> distributing to poor man, some dancers. In India there is a system. what

> do you call the eunuchs? Those who are neither male or female? What do you

> call them? What is their name?

>

> HD: (Hayagriva dasa) A combination of both?

> SP: Yes.

>

> HD: Male and female? Hermaphrodite.

> SP: Eunuchs? What is the eunuch?

>

> HD: Eunuch. A eunuch is a .

> SP: Tell me that.

>

> HD: Impotent. someone who's been castrated.

> SP: Oh. That is called a eunuch.

> HD: Eunuch.

> SP: Rather, by nature, neither man nor woman.

> HD: Oh. This is also called asexual. That is to say, no sex.

> SP: No sex?

> HD: Hermaphrodite means they have the physical characteristics of both

> man and woman.

> SP: Oh? At the same time?

> HD: At the same time.

> SP: I do not know exactly, but such people, they have their own

> society, and their means of livelihood is, that whenever there is some

> good occasion.marriage or childbirth, like that, so, they go there and

> pray to God that this child may be very long-living. In this way they make

> some prayer and get some.

> HD: These people. Now, I don't understand.

> SP: .Yes. Saci devi is the mother of Lord Caitanya. She is sitting with

> the child. And everyone is greeting and visiting and everyone is

> saying, "Oh! Look how nice a child He is!"

> HD: And these "asexual" people?

> SP: They are dancing.

> HD: They are dancing.

> SP: Yes. They are chanting Hare Krsna. Like that. So. Hare Krsna

> dancing is going there and visitors are coming and presenting very nice

> things. Yes.

>

> 3. SB 10.62.25-26

> Srila Visvanath Chakravati has defined the word bhatah as <female guards>,

> whereas Jiva Goswami defines

> them <eunuchs and others>. Grammatically the word can function both ways.

> As there are professional singers, dancers

> and reciters of prayers in the heavenly planets, so in India still are

> professional dancers, blessers and singers, all of whom assembled

> together during householder ceremonies, especially marriages and birth

> ceremonies. These professional men earn their livelihood by

> taking charity on such occasions from the home of the Hindus.

> Eunuchs also take advantage of such ceremonies to receive charity. That is

> their means of livelihood. Such men never become servants or engage

> themselves in agriculture or business occupation; they simply take charity

> from neighborhood friends to maintain themselves peacefully. The bhatah

> are a class of

> brahmana who goes trough such ceremonies to offer blessings by composing

> poems with references to the Vedic scriptures.

>

> 4. (a) Here are two inserts from my own Spiritual Warrior II book pg

> 15:

> <.Society itself encourages a wide variety of self-indulgent

> boundaries violations, so that today's culture is replete with signs of

> serious imbalance: pornography,

> promiscuity, abortion, incest, homosexuality and sexually transmitted

> disease.>

>

> (b) <Another manifestation of misdirect sexuality in modern society is

> the growing number of homosexuals and bisexuals> (SW II pg 18)

> Krishna's dharma and Isvara's submission are very clear.

>

> I hope you had a wonderful festival period. I think it is so wonderful

> there are devotees like Bhakti Vikasa Swami to keep in check devotees like

> myself who

>

> with good intention may appear by some to be too inclusive and sentimental

> and I think it is good to have devotees like myself who can help check

> devotees

> like Bhakti Vikasa who may appear to some to be a fundamentalist and too

> harsh. What a wonderful society His Devine Grace Srila Prabhupada has

> given us!

>

> So not to be sentimental (smile) let me address another issue.

>

> Srila Prabhupada's first book was "Easy journey to other planets". He

> tried to capture people by using this contemporary theme. I have one very

> unusual book: Spiritual Warrior I, which was a series of lectures to

> professionals who are metaphysics. I made a few wild statements. I have

> several disclaimers in the book however,

> clarifying that the real goal is not these passages of secondary knowledge

> but primary knowledge which brings one to full surrender to the Supreme.

> I have even included in the new edition at the beginning that the author

> is purposely using the language of the psychics to attract them to bhakti

> and not to influence

> the devotees to embrace secondary knowledge. In rare cases some of our

> acaryas like Bhaktivinoda have done this, so it is not unique.

> The beauty of the book really is how it shows how these professionals

> become devotees now serving in ISKCON, following all four principles and

> giving up their past gurus, impersonalism, etc. All of my books target

> different audiences and are selling up to 1/4 million very soon. This book

> was discussed in

> Mayapura and the settlement is with Kalakantha, so there is no problem

> here when things are understood in the proper prospective. Srila

> Prabhupada often quotes Canakya Pandit, but he is only a secondary source

> used to enhance a primary consideration, he even quoted the Aquarian

> gospel which is offensive to Krishna.

>

> If this book is too disturbing with all these clarifications, then maybe

> it is best to withdraw it. For some will say I do not have the spiritual

> potency to do such

> things as Bhaktivinoda, as he used the language of Bauls, sahajiyas to

> convert them or as Srila Prabhupada. The same ones will say you must do

> more as our acharyas have done. So, what to do? Many know when Srila

> Prabhupada was on the planet this was my kind of service i.e. sneak in

> like a needle and came out like a plow - spiritual espionage. So I still

> find ways to do this from time to time, sometimes even as an African king

> or etc. Now I am praying every day

> very hard to Srila Prabhupada to help me to assist more in minimizing the

> suffering of devotees and to reach so many more pious karmis. I am

> sometimes creative and radical, so please watch me closely. Read my other

> books, if anyone feels my behavior is getting too radical, please tell me.

> I not only want

> constant feedback but I celebrate it! How blessed I was to have several of

> you thinking of me during these auspicious days. I see it as a wonderful

> omen. Let us keep checking in on each other as a family seeing how to

> protect Srila Prabhupad's house. After all, all we have is each other.

> I look forward to this being my best year in devotional service. I hope

> you are feeling the same.

>

> Srila Prabhupada ki jay!

>

> Yours in Srila Prabhupada's service,

> with love,

> Bhakti-Tirtha Swami