Kanti Mataji - kindly reconsider your words...

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> In a message dated 9/25/2003 11:10:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> Basu.Ghosh.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net writes:

>

> > If these instructions are not clear enough...

> >

> > Then I would hesitate to state that something is might be seriously

> > wrong here...

> >

> > One thing is that SP desired that his disciples spend time here in

> > "punya bhumi, bharata bhumi" so that they would learn these various

> > traits of vedic/Krishna Conscious culture, and it's a distinct

> > disadvantage for those disciples of his who didn't do so. Because here

> > in Bhaarata these things were an innate part of the culture.

> >

> > No question whatsoever of "men being threatened", by the false

> > propaganda of women's liberationists, who are inspired by the men, by

> > the way - as Srila Prabhupada remarked.

> >

>

> I seem to be getting small bits and pieces of these threads, so I can not

> state with certainty that I have gotten all of them. But, after endless

> postings,

> responses and retorts on this thread that I have read, it is interesting

> that no one seems to have come up with a folio quote in which Srila

> Prabhpada stated that the term prabhu was categorically not to be used

> when addressing women. I am sure that the folio experts have been looking

> for such a quote, has one

> been found? So we know he did state "no, not as sister", such quotes have

> been found, but did he ever say "no not prabhu for women". I am curious,

> has there been any woman demanding to be addressed as "prabhu"?

 

Krishna Kirti Prabhu has answered the above nicely, so I won't comment here.

 

> This entire conversation is reminiscent of the strainer pointing out

> anothers holes. If we are all supposed to be lower than the straw in the

> street, what difference does it make in the long run who calls who prabhu?

> In that light, who can personally claim the title "prabhu" ? If someone

> chooses to address another as prabhu, indicating their acceptance of the

> straw mentality for themselves, why should anyone else object? No one is

> commanding anyone to address

> women as prabhu, but if someone choses to do so, why should it be a

> problem for another? Actually, is not everyone to be considered as prabhu?

>

> As for the Vedic

> standard, the brahmanas also objected based on Vedic standard, when

> their wives offered to Krsna... are we to emulate those Vedic brahmanas?

> Are we to aspire to the Vedic standard but ignore the fundamental message

> of humility and service?

>

> In this age, we shall not recreate the vedic standard, nor shall we be

> required to, this is after all Kali yuga. India is no longer the bastion

> of Vedic standard and principles it once was. It is Vaisnava culture we

> are interested in..... our goal is to create the Krsna conscious standard,

> is it not? By Lord Nityananda's mercy, this standard is transportable to

> any locale. Taking the humble position for oneself can never be considered

> improper, just as giving all respect to others is not. As far as I

> remember, which is admittedly faulty, general criticism and bickering does

> not seem to be part of any Krsna Conscious standard Srila Prabhupada

> encouraged. If we continue to chant Hare Krsna, perhaps these details will

> not be so agravating to those who are presently disturbed.

>

> yhs and mataji, Kanti dasi

 

Seems that you, Mataji, are the one who is disturbed! :-)

 

As for myself, well, I think I'll "shut up" and let Srila Prabhupada speak

here:

 

"According to the Vedic system, one who does not abide by the orders of the

Vedas is called a nastika, or atheist."

 

>From Srila Prabhupada's Purport of SB 4.21.27

 

"The demoniac persons who want to kill the Vedic culture are extremely

envious of the feeble citizens, and they act in such a way that ultimately

their discoveries will be inauspicious for everyone (jagato ’hit€ƒ). The

Sixteenth Chapter of Bhagavad-g…t€ fully explains how the demons engage in

sinful activities for the destruction of the populace."

 

>From Srila Prabhupada's Purport of SB 7.2.13

 

"There are so many human beings all over the world, Mostly, they're like

animals—without culture. Because, according to our Vedic culture, unless one

takes to the institution of varŠa and €rama, he’s not a human being."

 

>From Srila Prabhupada's lecture on Bhagavad-gita 7.1 at Calcutta Jan. 27 '73

 

"There are €c€ryas in India. Actually, practically, our whole civilization

is guided by the €c€ryas. šc€ryav€n puruo veda. We have to accept €c€rya.

In India, our culture, Vedic culture, depending on €c€ryas. Even we differ,

we VaiŠavas... There are VaiŠava €c€ryas, and there is M€y€v€d… €c€ryas.

So ®a‰kar€c€rya, he is M€y€v€d…, impersonalist; still, he accepts KŠa the

Supreme Personality of Godhead, sa bhagav€n svayaˆ kŠaƒ devak…-nandanaƒ.

He has written in his commentary on the Bhagavad-g…t€. He accepts. N€r€yaŠaƒ

paraƒ avyakt€t, sa bhagav€n n€r€yaŠaƒ kŠaƒ. He has accepted. And what to

speak of R€m€nuj€c€rya, Madhv€c€rya and other €c€ryas."

 

>From Srila Prabhupada's lecture on Bhagavad-gita 9.11 at Calcutta June 30

'73

 

"But so far our Vedic culture is concerned, there are specific mention,

mah€jana. And so far Lord KŠa is concerned, so there is no two opinions

about His authority throughout the whole world. And so far we are concerned,

Hindus, or the followers of the Vedic religion, there is no difference of

opinion so far KŠa’s authority is concerned."

 

>From Srila Prabhupada's lecture on Maha-mantra at New York September 8, '66.

 

"Therefore in Vedic culture, other section, the katriyas and the vaiyas,

they would call the br€hmaŠas to take food. Br€hmaŠa-bhojana. Because they

know, “The br€hmaŠas, they will starve; still they will not ask anybody to

give him food.” Therefore br€hmaŠa-bhojana. And now they have discovered

daridra-n€r€yaŠa-bhojana. There are so many things. Vedic culture is the

perfect for human society, perfect culture. And this is not bogus humbug, go

into the darkness and do something nonsense. It is everything open, in the

€stra, in the book. You have to adopt it. Then you become happy. The whole

society, the whole human society becomes happy, never mind where it is. It

is science, how to live just like human being, not like cats and dogs. That

is Vedic culture. Everyone is happy. Still, those who are following Vedic

principles, they are happy than others."

 

>From Srila Prabhupada's room conversation with Banker, Bombay, Sept. 21, '73

 

Mataji, if these aren't enough quotes to convince you reconsider what you

have written in the final para of your's letter written above, then... Hare

Krishna! May the Lord bless you!

 

das,

 

Basu Ghosh Das

 

P.S. May I humbly request and suggest that you carefully read and re-read

Srila Prabhupada's statements and "clear as the sky is blue" instructions

that ALL WOMEN are to be addressed as "mother" by men.

 

"Simple for the simple".