Guest guest Posted February 23, 2002 Report Share Posted February 23, 2002 > > India.Open (AT) pamho (DOT) net [india.Open (AT) pamho (DOT) net]On Behalf Of IRM > 21 February 2002 22:51 > 53 - High Court Grants ISKCON Bangalore Injunction Against > Jayapataka Swami > > > Newsletter of the Iskcon Revival Movement (IRM) > Issue 53 > > > 1) High Court Grants ISKCON Bangalore Injunction Against Jayapataka Swami > 2) Bangalore World No.1 Book Distributor For The Whole Of 2001 > 3) ISKCON Bangalore Honoured By Governor and Madhva Sampradaya > 4) Ivory Coast Prime Minister Inaugurates ISKCON Bangalore Program > 5) Narayan Maharaja Contradicted By His 'Mediator' > 6) Krishna Kirti Fails To Answer "The Final Order" > > > > 1) High Court Grants ISKCON Bangalore Injunction Against Jayapataka Swami > > On February 12th 2002, the Bangalore High Court was pleased to > continue the > order of Status Quo protecting the ISKCON Bangalore management from > encroachment by 9 defendants, which include ISKCON Bombay, > Jayapataka Swami and > Gopal Krishna Swami. This Status Quo order, ordering the 9 > defendants to not > disturb the possession and control of ISKCON Bangalore by its current > management has actually been in place since October 16th, 2001. > It has been in > force continuously since that day, and the High Court has now > extended it even > further. Though a lower court turned down the request of ISKCON > Bangalore to > extend Status Quo order indefinitely, the High Court has accepted ISKCON > Bangalore's appeal against the order, and has ordered that the Status quo > protection remain in place until the matter is heard fully. > > Please find below the orders passed in this matter since October 16th: > > > ------------- > ------------- > > "Documents placed on record, prima facie, show title and possession of the > plaintiff [iSKCON Bangalore] over the suit schedule properties [Temple]. > Plaintiff is a society registered under the Karnataka Societies > Registration > Act, 1960. Plaintiff is an independent entity. Plaintiff > apprehends unlawful > interference by thedefendants 1 to 9 [Jayapataka Swami et. al]. > Apprehension of > the plaintiff cannot be said to be unfounded, at this stage of > the proceedings, > in view of the pleadings and the documents on record. > > Therefore, an interim equitable order is felt necessary to > maintain the status > quo of the nature of the suit schedule property and the affairs of the > plaintiff-society. Hence, I proceed to pass the following > > ORDER > > Parties to the suit, except defendants 10 and 11 are directed to maintain > status quo of the affairs of the plaintiff-society and the nature > of the suit > schedule "A, B and C" properties." > > The following order was then passed on February 6th, 2002 by the Bangalore > Civil Court: > > "Today, this court has passed orders on IA-2 dismissing the > application of the > plaintiff u/o 39 rules 1 and 2 CPC and thereby discharging the > ad-interim order > of status granted on 16-10-2001. There is no executable order. > However, in view > of the submissions of the learned counsel for The plaintiff, that the > plaintiff wants to prefer an appeal against the order of this court passed > today, I feel it just and proper that there shall be status quo > of the affairs > as obtaining today, till 13-02-2002." > > Finally on February 12th, the Bangalore High Court passed the > following order > which is the current situation: > > "This Court doth Order that pending disposal of the above appeal, both the > parties i.e., Appellant and Respondents be and are hereby > directed to maintain > status-quo." > Appellant: > > International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON), a > society having its > registered office at ISKCON, Harekrishna Hill, Chord Road, > Bangalore-10, by its > secretary Stoka Krishna Dasa. > > List of Respondents: > > > 1.. International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON), a > registered > public Trust having its Registered Office at Harekrishna land, > Juhu, Mumbai 400 > 049. > 2.. Bhima Dasa, Major. > 3.. Gopala Krishna Goswami, Major, 2 and 3 above are having > their office at > Harekrishna land, Juhu, Mumbai - 400 049. > 4.. Jayapataka Swami, Major. > 5.. Vinay Kalro also known as Vibhava Krishna Dasa, Major. > 6.. Ashok Kumar Gupta, Major. > 7.. B. Kiran, Major. > 8.. Sudhir Chaitanya Dasa, Major. 4 to 8 at No.5, I Cross, Sripuram, > Sheshadripuram, B'lore -20. > 9.. Sarva Aishwarya Dasa, Major, ISKCON, Coimbatore Centre > Harekrishna Land, > 100 Feet, New Scheme Road, Coimbatore, Tamil Nadu. > > > > ------------- > ----------------------- > We hope this will correct the lie that has been propagated by GBC > sources that > ISKCON Bangalore has now been ordered by the court to return to > the GBC. As can > be seen from the court orders above, the court has always directed that a > status quo be maintained between ISKCON Bangalore and the > opposing parties. > This means that the opposing parties are restrained by the court from > disturbing the state of affairs as they exist today with full possession, > control and management of the temple in the hands of ISKCON Bangalore. > > Last week Jayapataka Swami, Jayadvaita Swami and others arrived > in Bangalore, > followed by 300 'devotee' thugs from Mayapur, Bombay and other places to > take-over the temple by force. They were hoping that the courts > would not grant > ISKCON Bangalore the status quo protection it desired. However we > are happy to > report that their nefarious plans were thwarted by the court > order obtained and > they have now dispersed back to wherever they came from. > > Our court action also prompted the following story which was carried > Internationally by the 'Asian Age' newspaper all over Asia as > well as in the > USA and the UK: > > > ------------- > ------------------------- > Dual Consciousness: ISKCON branches move court > > By Madhu Prasad N. > > Bangalore, Feb. 18: Differences over the acharyaship in the International > Society for Krishna Consciousness have created a wedge within the > organisation > with members of the ISKCON Revival Movement challenging the > authority of the > ISKCON Governing Body Council in the court of law. The revival movement, > spearheaded by Bangalore and Kolkata chapters of ISKCON, is > taking on the GBC, > which is controlled by ISKCON Mumbai. While in Kolkata, members of IRM > dismissed from ISKCON by the governing body went to court in 1999 > and managed > to get reinstated, the Bangalore ISKCON took preemptive action by > filing a suit > in the city civil court seeking autonomy from Mumbai. The dispute > has its roots > in the differences over beliefs on acharyaship within the > movement. According > to members of the Bangalore chapter, the ISKCON Revival Movement > believes that > the founder of the ISKCON movement Srila Prabhupada was the last > guru and none > after him can be appointed to that position. On the other hand, the Mumbai > ISKCON and the Governing Body Council contend that the > representative appointed > by acharya Prabhupada are his successors and hence can act as acharyas. > > "Because of these difference, which have grown over the years, we > thought it > was necessary to distance ourselves from Mumbai. So we took the matter to > court, filing for autonomy," a representative of Bangalore ISKCON said. > Representatives of ISKCON Mumbai, however, dismiss the talk of an > ideological > battle between the two groups as a mere eyewash. They contend that the > Bangalore branch was filing for autonomy as it wanted get control of all > property belonging to the movement in Bangalore. > > "Therefore we have opposed the claims made by ISKCON Bangalore in > court," they > said. > > The current court case filed by ISKCON Bangalore is simply the latest in a > long-line of legal battles between the two factions. Bangalore > ISKCON had filed > a suit in the city civil court seeking autonomy from its Mumbai > counterpart and > obtained a stay order restraining Mumbai from interfering with its > administration. Later, Mumbai ISKCON managed to get the stay annulled. The > Karnataka high court, however, restored the earlier stay order in > favour of > Bangalore ISKCON. > > Meanwhile, ISKCON Revival Movement spokesperson Krishnakanth, who > is based in > London and is the author of the Final Order - a report on the > interpretation > of acharyaship, which sparked off the revival movement - claimed in a > conversation with The Asian Age that; "The recent case which came > up in the > Bangalore city civil court last week regarding ISKCON Bangalore > asserting its > distinct legal identity from ISKCON Mumbai, has brought to the fore the > campaign by the ISKCON Revival Movement to cleanse today's ISKCON > of corruption > and mismanagement." > > "The ISKCON Revival Movement is a worldwide movement of ISKCON > centres, which > wish to follow the directives given by ISKCON's saintly founder, > His Divine > Grace, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada. Following > Srila Prabhupada's > departure in 1977, ISKCON has been characterised by abandonment of the key > directions given by Srila Prabhupada regarding how his ISKCON > movement should > be managed," Mr Krishnakanth said. > > The differences between the two factions began in 1999, after an > attempt was > made by the GBC to expel the leaders of the ISKCON Revival > Movement from ISKCON > Kolkata. This attempt however was successfully resisted in the > courts, with the > Kolkata branch filing a suit challenging the GBC's decision to > expel ISKCON > members. Later in April 2001, supporters of those aligned with > ISKCON Mumbai > stormed the Calcutta temple and took control of it. > > They were flushed out by the police. > > "We don't want a similar situation to develop in Bangalore. So as > a pre-emptive > move, the local ISKCON president filed a suit in the city civil court here > demanding autonomy from Mumbai ISKCON, which controls the GBC," a > Bangalore > ISKCON representative said. > > The battle is set to continue in the Karnataka high court, with > both the Mumbai > and Bangalore chapters presenting their representative respective > cases before > it. > > (ASIAN AGE: 19/2/2002) > > > > > 2) Bangalore World No.1 Book Distributor For The Whole Of 2001 > > The World Sankirtan newsletter has declared that ISKCON Bangalore > was the no.1 > world book distributor for the year 2001. The newsletter reports > that ISKCON > Bangalore distributed almost 1/2 million pieces of literature in > 2001. ISKCON > as a whole only distributed 2.9 million books worldwide. When the > scores for > other IRM temples which are not listed in the newsletter are > added, such as > Calcutta (which distributed almost 200,000 books in one month at > the Khumba > Mela alone), New York, temples in Malaysia, Singapore etc., we > come up with the > startling fact that more than 20% or 1 in 5 books distributed in > ISKCON for the > year 2001 were distributed by IRM temples. > > Another startling fact which the world sankirtan newsletter has > highlighted is > that ISKCON Bangalore also came top as the most improved temple > in terms of > increasing its book distribution for the year 2001. Its book distribution > scores were more than 2.5 times the number of books it > distributed in 2000. > That means that not only is ISKCON Bangalore distributing more books than > anyone else, but its also increasing its book distribution faster > than anyone > else. > > As the GBC-Guru run ISKCON continues to disintegrate and files > for bankruptcy, > the IRM continues to go from strength to strength, and we expect > to make an > even bigger contribution in 2002. > > > > 3) ISKCON Bangalore Honoured By Governor and Madhva Sampradaya > > We had reported in our last newsletter (Newsletter 52: "Chief > Minister Honours > ISKCON Bangalore Temple President"), how the Chief Minister had > honoured Madhu > Pandit Das, the Temple President of ISKCON Bangalore and Secretary of the > ISKCON Revival Movement (IRM), for the 'Akshaya Patra' program in > which 30,000 > school-children our served prasadam everyday. Now ISKCON > Bangalore has gone > one better, with the Governor now conferring a special Republic > Day Governor's > award on Madhu Pandit Das for the Akshaya Patra program. The > award ceremony was > televised and attended by all the leading members of the > Government, and the > award is considered most prestigious. > > Also the Madhva Sampradaya from which our own Gaudiya Sampradaya > has descended, > and which is based in Udipi, confers a special award once every 2 > years when > the management of Udipi rotates between the mathas which were > established by > Madhvaacarya. This year the special award was given to Madhu > Pandit Das, on > behalf of ISKCON Bangalore, for their contribution in having > spread Krishna > Bhakti via the distribution to date of almost 1 million of Srila > Prabhupada's > books in Kannada, the local language in the State of Karnataka in > South India. > The award was given at a special event to mark the hand-over in > the management > of the math, and was attended by over 50,000 people and many > prominent VIP's. > > We include press cuttings of these events below, which confirm how ISKCON > Bangalore is increasingly moving in the various circles of > influence in South > India. > > > ------------- > ----------------- > > Rama Devi honours individuals, NGOs > BANGALORE, JAN. 26. The Governor, V.S.Rama Devi, and the Chief Minister, > S.M.Krishna, on Saturday felicitated individuals and > organisations, who had > contributed to the public good at a function got up at the Raj Bhavan. > > The recipient organisations and persons were honoured with > citation, a cash > prize of Rs.20,000 and Rs.10,000 respectively. They were: > Mannangi Ramanand and > Mannangi Devakka, freedom fighters, Thankamma Varkey, Mehboob > Bee, J.Jakriya, > Subhash Agarval, social service, Reema Pascol Cardoza, blind news > reader in > Tulu cable channel, K.Venkataraman, security guard, who averted a > major railway > accident. Master Mohammed Swaroop, computer whiz kid from Puttur, > Dinesh Kumar > Rawat, who saved 27 people from drowning in the sea, Samarthanam > Trust, T.Raja, > Sirish and Shamanth of I.M.R.H.C voluntary organisation and Madhu > Pandita Dasa, > President of the ISKCON Sri Krishna Temple, responsible for the > "Akshaya Patra" > programme distributing mid- day meals to 20,000 rural children. > The citation > appreciated the rural development he has taken up in a 100-acre > organic farm > near Mysore which was training farmers. > > The Speaker of the Legislative Assembly, M.V.Venkatappa, and > Prema Krishna, > wife of the Chief Minister, were present. C.K.Jaffer Sharief, MP, > J.Alexander, > MLA and former Chief Secretary, the Minister of State for Science and > Technology, Nafees Fazal, and the Chief Secretary, Teresa Bhattacharya, > attended the "At home" hosted by the Governor at the glass house > on the Raj > Bhavan lawns. > > Later, the Governor told presspersons that she had instituted > these prizes to > recognise those who had done remarkable service and achievements > but were not > encouraged in the existing system. The officials in the > Governor's Secretariat > said that the Governor selected people for these honours while on > her tour. > > [THE HINDU, January 27, 2002] > > > ------------- > -------------- > > Udupi seer honours ISKCON President > SRI Madhu Pandit Dasa President of ISKCON, Bangalore, was on Thursday, > conferred with the honorary title 'Sri Krishna Kripa Patra' > (recipient of Lord > Krishna's mercy) by the Seer of the Palimaru Mutt Sri Vidyadheesha Tirtha > Swami. > > The honour was conferred for his contribution in propagating Sri > Krishna Bhakti > and distributing to thousands of under privileged children > through the Akshya > Patra Programme. > > The pontiffs appreciated the service rendered by Sri Madhu Pandit Dasa to > society by helping to preach philosophy in Kannada. > > The ceremony took place in the Raj Dharbar of the famous Udupi Sri Krishna > Temple. D. Veerendra Hegde of Dharmasthala, M.N. Venkatachalaiah, > retired Chief > Justice of the Supreme Court and Union Ministor for Textiles > Dhananjaya Kumar > were present. > > [THE NEW INDIAN EXPRESS, January 19, 2002] > > > ------------- > ------------------ > > > > 4) Ivory Coast Prime Minister Inaugurates ISKCON Bangalore Program > > IT seems everyone wants to be associated with ISKCON Bangalore these days. > ISKCON Bangalore had recently organised a 'Heritage Festival' involving > thousands of school-children, who participated in week-long > events meant to > increase their appreciation of India's ancient Vedic culture. To > inaugurate the > event we managed to get none other than the Prime Minister of the > Ivory Coast!! > > > Please find a related newspaper article below: > > ISKCON festival holds Ivory Coast PM spellbound > BANGALORE: It was a fun-filled week for school-going children at > the ISKCON > Heritage Fest which ended on Sunday. > > It concluded with a grand ceremony, ' inaugurated by Affi > N'Guessan, Prime > Minister of Ivory Coast, and Rani Satish, Minister for Kannada > and Culture. For > the foreign PM it was a visual treat. > > Affi N'Guessan, who enjoyed every bit of the function said: "I > had come here to > see Indian culture in its true form and I finally got to see it." > > During the course of the week several competitions, like fancy > dress, vedic > quiz and Indian dance, vocal music and instrumental music, were held. > > The winners of all the dance and music competitions put up an enjoyable 45 > minute performance. The special effects like the lighting, smoke and the > digital projections accentuated the performances making it a > visual treat. > > Beautiful images of Udupi Krishna adorned in various dresses > were projected on > huge screens while classical songs by Purandarasa were sung by > students. The > overwhelmed audience too joined in the singing. > > All the 3,500 participants from over 225 schools have made the > Heritage show a > success. > > The prizes were given away by Rani Satish and the function was > also attended by > Mohandas Pai, CFO.Infosys. > > "We have used technology to promote the artistic and musical, > expression of our > golden heritage which is a characteristic of ISKCON." said Madhu > Pandit Dasa, > president, , ISKCON Bangalore. > > [TIMES OF India, January 14, 2002] > > > 5. Narayan Maharaja Contradicted By His 'Mediator' > > In her article called: "Iskcon Is Much Bigger Than We Think", > published on VNN > on 9th January, Jadurani prabhu (henceforward 'the Author') responds to an > article that was in the last IRM newsletter (Newsletter 52: > "Chief Minister > Honours ISKCON Bangalore Temple President") entitled "Naryana > Maharaja Confused > About Ritvik". The Author is a renowned follower of Narayana > Maharaja (NM), and > since NM has not publicly objected to her paper we assume he must > agree with > it. > > Below we have given the first portion of our rebuttal to her > article. The rest > of the article can be read by following the instructions given at > the end of > this portion: > > > ------------- > ------------ > > In this article we will show that the Author: > > 1) contradicts what NM had said in his lecture; > > 2) puts words into his mouth that he never spoke; > > 3) tries to cover the fact that NM had misrepresented our > position by launching > into her own separate attack on the ritvik position, and > insinuating that NM is > beyond criticism; > > 4) these attacks on the ritvik position consisting of nothing but > recycled GBC > arguments that were defeated long ago. > > The Author herself admits her article is quite lengthy, so we > shall just give a > couple of examples of each category, and in this way expose the > flawed nature > of her stated position. All quotes from her paper (which also quotes our > newsletter) shall be enclosed thus, and will be followed by > our comments. > > <1) The IRM quoted Srila Narayana Maharaja: "Those who think, > 'There is no need > to accept a guru as a mediator because we can chant the holy > name, we can read > books, and we can do arcana and sadhana simply by the rtvik > system,' are not > within the guru-parampara. They deceive others. They are actually > cheaters; not > bhaktas." > > The IRM replied: [Of course no one except NM has ever even > proposed this. The > Ritvik system is DEFINED as accepting Srila Prabhupada as the Guru who > mediates.] > > COMMENT: Srila Narayana Maharaja is not saying that Prabhupada is > not the guru > who mediates. All acaryas in disciplic succession are gurus who > mediate; no > doubt.> > > Above we see the author contradicts NM, since he had stated that > the ritvik > position (which by definition maintains that Srila Prabhupada is > the 'guru who > mediates') means 'there is no need of a guru as a mediator'. > Clearly then NM > does not accept that Srila Prabhupada can be a 'guru who > mediates', since he is > the only guru the pro-ritviks claim is the 'mediator'. Jadurani feels > differently, she even claims that 'all acaryas' can do this, so > then why not > Srila Prabhupada? > > She then goes on to pose the absurd notion that we require a pure > devotee to > understand another pure devotee. > > "Srila Maharaja is simply saying that one needs the guidance of a > pure devotee > to understand Prabhupada's mediation." > > Aside from the fact that NM did not actually say this (in fact he was > completely dismissing the whole idea of Srila Prabhupada being a guru who > ''mediates' since Srila Prabhupada is the only mediating guru > within the ritvik > system); if the author were correct, it would necessitate an > unlimited line of > pure devotees being present to understand anything at all, since > each one would > require another one to explain the one before, who in turn would > need another > one to explain what he was saying etc, etc, ad infinitum. We do > not remember > Srila Prabhupada saying that with each of his books there must also be > distributed a little miniature pure devotee who will explain what > is in the > book (and then of course another pure devotee to explain what > that pure devotee > just said). The Author may argue that this is only necessary if the pure > devotee has physically departed, yet we see NM has not physically > departed, and > yet here is the Author herself already having to explain what he > meant, except > she is a 'mediator' who contradicts the 'pure devotee' she is meant to be > 'mediating' for. > > Of course the Author is promoting NM himself as the 'pure > devotee' who we all > now allegedly need to approach in order to understand what Srila > Prabhupada > meant when he wrote his books and gave his directives etc. Yet, > following our > expose, she has had to step in and re-explain what he had said, > so perhaps it > is the Author herself who we now need to approach in order to > understand what > NM means. > > What we all do need is association of more senior devotees, but > these senior > devotees do not have to be 'pure devotees' ( if they are then all > the better), > they just need to be able to read and repeat what Srila > Prabhupada actually > said, and set an example by following strictly. And that is why Srila > Prabhupada established ISKCON, to provide that type of association. He > certainly never said we need another pure devotee, or 'mediator' > to understand > what he said in his books. > > > <2) The IRM quoted Srila Narayana Maharaja: "Nowhere in the sastra is it > written that a rtvik can ever give bhakti. This can never be the case." > > The IRM replied: [Nowhere has it ever been claimed by anyone that > the 'rtvik > gives Bhakti'. Those who accept the rtvik system receive Bhakti from the > self-realized Guru, Srila Prabhupada.] > > COMMENT: (.) Srila Narayana Maharaja is simply saying here that > in order to get > bhakti from Srila Prabhupada, one has to be able to understand > and then follow > his instructions.> > > We removed some pre-amble, but as can be seen the Author has > simply put words > into NM's mouth, words he never spoke, in order to deflect > attention from the > fact that NM clearly had no idea what the ritivk system Srila Prabhupada > established entailed. So what are we to think? Either NM is deliberately > misrepresenting the ritvik position as established in The Final > Order, a paper > based entirely on signed documentation, or he has no idea what it > is. Either > way it is not going to help resolve the matter by just pretending he said > something he clearly didn't. That is not 'mediating', that is > completely taking > over as a separate authority. > > The Author then claims: > > <By the association of pure devotees we can understand what was > Prabhupada's > intention for initiations and everything else, after his departure, and > forever.> > > We would have more faith in her assertion had NM actually addressed the > position he was meant to be helping us all to 'understand'. > Instead he attacked > a position that nobody is advocating. > > TO READ THE REST OF THIS ARTICLE PLEASE CLICK ON: > > (a) http://farsight.members.beeb.net/Jadurani_Contradicts_NM.htm > > (b) Or go to the IRM website at http://farsight.members.beeb.net or > http://come.to/irm and click on Jadurani' in the 'Failed > Challenges' section > on the home page. > > > 6) Krishna Kirti Fails To Answer "The Final Order" > > > For the 5th time in 5 years, yet another attempt has been made to try and > defeat the IRM position paper "The Final Order". As usual this > paper, entitled > "'Posthumous Initiation in ISKCON: Is it Sanctioned by Srila > Prabhupada?'" by > Krishna Kirti Das, which was posted recently on CHAKRA, has met > the same fate > as all the previous attempts. > > > We have given below the Introduction and conclusion of our > rebuttal to this > paper, and the rest of the paper can be read by clicking on the hyper-link > given at the end, or by going to the IRM website and clicking on 'Krishna > Kirti' in the 'Failed Challenges' section on the home page. > > > ------------- > --------------------------- > > > This is a reply to Krishna Kirti's (herein referred to as the > 'Author') recent > paper entitled: 'Posthumous Initiation in ISKCON: Is it > Sanctioned by Srila > Prabhupada?' This paper is the 5th attempt in recent years to try > and defeat > the IRM position paper, "The Final Order" (herein referred to as > TFO). So far > we have had 'Disciple of My Disciple' (Badrinarayan Das et.al, > 1997), 'Timeless > Order' ( Vivek Pai, 1997), 'Point For Point Refutation of TFO' (Jahnu Das, > 1998), 'Prabhupada's Order, (GBC, 1998). Each was pushed > enthusiastically at > the time by the GBC, only to be replaced by the subsequent paper, once our > responses had soundly exposed the flaws in each paper. Even though the GBC > claim that each one of these papers defeats TFO, the very fact > they always felt > compelled to subsequently back another paper belies their claim. > If TFO truly > had been defeated as they claimed by each one of their papers, > why the need by > them and their supporters to always come back with another try? > This itself > confirms that the GBC and their supporters themselves tacitly > recognize that > the papers in question had not done the job, and another attempt > was required. > So after a gap of over 3.5 years, Krishna Kirti has now dared to > 'have a go' > against TFO and put something in print. We commend him for his courage. It > appears a great deal of thought and effort has gone into the > author's paper, > with him acknowledging the input of at least 4 devotees as well as a whole > think tank! Unfortunately for the Author, as we will now > demonstrate, his paper > has met the same fate as its illustrious predecessors in that it > too has been > soundly routed! > Most notably the Author relies heavily on the famous 'law of disciplic > succession', even though the GBC no longer follow it, Srila > Bhaktisiddhanta > never followed it, nor is it mentioned anywhere in any of Srila > Prabhupada's > books. Although the Author offers a special get-out-clause - that > the 'law' > need not apply if the guru gives his permission to a disciple to > initiate in > his presence (no doubt with Sivarama Swami and Mahavishnu Swami > in mind) - this > is not stated in the private letters from which the 'Law' was > extracted. This > fact also severely damages the Author's overall position, since > he is meant to > be defending the GBC's position, but relies heavily on a law that > they have > dumped. > > We were initially pleased to note that the Author has taken the trouble to > actually quote, verbatim, sections of TFO since most of the other > GBC-backed > papers were mainly full of 'straw man' arguments, having not even > bothered to > quote TFO. (A 'straw man' argument is the technique of answering > arguments NOT > actually put forward by the opponent, since the actual arguments > which are put > forward cannot be answered. In this way the illusion of 'victory' > is presented > since a bunch of non-relevant arguments are successfully defeated.) > Unfortunately having quoted TFO extensively the author falls into the same > trap, in that instead of answering the TFO quotations he has just > produced, he > instead proceeds to answer another 'argument' which he implies is > stated in > TFO. Indeed his paper is very neatly structured in the form of 14 such > 'arguments' sandwiched between an Introduction and discussion on > the July 9th > directive, which he then proceeds to answer by demonstrating the > 'fallacy' of > the argument presented, followed by a supporting discussion. > However most of > these 'arguments' are also 'straw man' arguments, having not been > put forward > by TFO. In this way, the Author also reveals his inability to > deal with TFO, > taking shelter instead in phantom irrelevant arguments. > > [...] > > In Conclusion: > > We have shown the following: > > 1.. 12 of the 14 key 'arguments' which the Author makes, and > which form the > basis of his whole paper are 'straw-man' arguments. The vast > majority of the > other supplementary points he makes are also 'straw-man' > arguments. Thus the > main thrust of Krishna Kirti prabhu's paper is taken up attacking > arguments the > TFO never makes, rendering his paper irrelevant. This is even > more bizarre > since the Author is one of the few persons who has actually > bothered to quote > verbatim from TFO. This simply demonstrates that TFO is an > undefeatable paper, > otherwise why are its detractors forced to invent arguments that > TFO does not > make in order to write a response? Why are they unable to even > ADDRESS what TFO > ACTUALLY states? > 2.. In relation to the handful of points the Author has made > which do bear > some resemblance to what is stated in TFO, please note: > i) The paper relies heavily on a 'law' of 'disciplic succession' that: > > 1.. The GBC no longer follow (invented get-out-clauses not > withstanding); > 2.. Was not followed by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta; > 3.. Was not described in any of Srila Prabhupada's books, but > only in one > private letter that was not intended to be generally available to > guide the > ISKCON movement; > 4.. Was used solely to deal with difficult disciples, as > practically admitted > by the Author, in order to STOP them from acting as diksa gurus; > 5.. Indicates only the time period when it is theoretically > possible for them > to initiate, not that they 'will' or 'shall' definitely do it, or > are in any > way being 'authorised' to do it. > ii) The paper fails to explain how the 'amara' verse authorises Srila > Prabhupada's disciples to accept disciples when its purports > state 'it is best > not to accept any disciples'. > > In the 'acknowledgements' section of his paper the Author thanks > his wife for > making 'sacrifices' so that he had 'time' to work on this > 'project'. However > due to his failure to address the actual document he is supposed to be > responding to, we were able to dismantle his 'project' in under 3 > hours. Our > sympathies therefore go to his wife for the precious waste of > time incurred in > producing an irrelevant paper. > > Thus TFO remains robustly resilient to yet another attempt to thwart Srila > Prabhupada's stated intentions. For the fifth time in as many years, once > again, 'The Final Order Still Stands'! > > TO READ THE REST OF THIS PAPER PLEASE CLICK ON: > > (a) http://farsight.members.beeb.net/Krishna_Kirti.htm > > (b) Or go to the IRM website at http://farsight.members.beeb.net or > http://come.to/irm and click on 'Krishna Kirti' on the 'Failed > Challenges' > section on the home page. > > Thank you for taking the time to read this newsletter, and please > keep your > letters, and e-mail addresses of other devotees who should be added to our > list, flowing in. A hard copy of our main position paper 'The > Final Order' > is available on request. All other IRM papers can be accessed through the > EDITORIAL SECTION of the IRM website at > > > http://farsight.members.beeb.net or http://come.to/irm > > > If you would like to receive any of the back issues of the > Newsletter please > let me know. > > No 1. Invitation to Srila Prabhupada's Vyasa Puja > No 2. GBC Lose First Round of Court Case > No 3. The Story VNN Refused to Publish > No 4. Poison Theorists Accuse Adri of Complicity > No 5. Iskcon Continues to Promote Child Abusers > No 6. Invitation to Malaysia > No 7. United World Body Formed > No 8. Does Srila Prabhupada Support Poisoning Theory? > No 9. PADA Attacks IRM Position > No 10. PADA Continues to Present False Evidence > No 11. GBC Funded Video says Ritvik Spiritual > No 12. Child Rapist Selected by Gurus to Defend their Legitimacy > No 13. GBC Facing Perjury Charge in Calcutta High Court > No 14. Sahajiyism Makes a Comeback in Iskcon. > No 15. Govt. Minister Inaugurates Bangalore Rathayatra > No 16. Iskcon Calcutta Triumphs Following Arson Attack > No 17. Fighting Lies with Truth Not More Lies > No 18. GBC Resolutions Continue to Provide Laughter > No 19. Indian Leaders Endorse IRM Position that GBC Confused > No 20. Convicted Child Abuser Officially 'Returns' to Parampara > No 21. GBC Special Issue - GBC Chairman Admits ISKCON 'Disintegrating' > No 22. Krsna Confirms Iskcon Rebirth - New York Special Issue > No 23. Hare Krsna Explosion Begins in New York as IRM Temple Opens > No 24 IRM Launches Media Campaign to Defend Srila Prabhupada > No 25 GBC Teaches That 'Living Gurus' NOT Required > No 26 BBT Admits Books Changed to Fit GBC Philosophy > No 27 Big Breakthrough for Krishna in Singapore > No 28 Bangalore Tops World Book Distribution > No 29 City of New York to Honour Srila Prabhupada > No 30 Gurukula Lawsuit Special - The Facts > No 31 BBC Glorifies Srila Prabhupada to the World > No 32 Harinam Revived in World famous Times Square > No 33 ISKCON Guru on Run From Police - Suicide Case Special > No 34 GBC Declare All Out War > No 35 GBC Fail Again in Second Expulsion Attempt > No 36 Indian Press Glorifies New York IRM > No 37 Iskcon Temple in Bangladesh Joins IRM > No 38 All Ports Alert for Jayapataka To Be Issued > No 39 The GBC's Best Trick Yet > No 40 Biggest Prasadam Distribution Program Ever Begins > No 41 Double Edition - IRM Granted Prime Kumbha Mela Site > No 42 Danavir Invents A New Philosophy > No 43 IRM Makes World Headlines - Kumbha Mela Special > No 44 GBC Meetings End in Fiasco > No 45 GBC Paralysis Documented in Resolutions > No 46 Mayapur Attempt to Storm Calcutta Temple Ends in Fiasco > No 47 Mayapur Attack Cover-up Exposed > No 48 Massive GBC Fraud Uncovered > No 49 BBC Broadcasts World IRM Special > No 50 Mayapur Bomb Blast Reveals GBC Terrorist Campaign > No 51 Mayor of New York Dedicates Srila Prabhupada Memorial > No 52 Chief Minister Honours ISKCON Bangalore Temple President > > > Your comments, questions and feedback are appreciated. Please > write to me at > > irm (AT) ntlworld (DOT) com > > > Your Servant, Adridharan das > > If you do not want to keep receiving this Newsetter please return with > "" > in the subject box and we will remove you from the mailing list. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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