Food For Life or Food For Death? (Part One) or (Food for Thought)

[Guest guest]

Dear Devotees

 

PAMHO

AGTSP

 

Firstly, I would like to thank H.G.Pancaratna Prabhu for pointing out the

importance of Vaisnava etiquette even in a circumstance where I may not

agree with another devotee. I would like to thank him for speaking out on

this and hence saving me from the offence of being a passive hearer.

I hope and pray I do not offend any devotee. It is not my intention to do

so. If anyone is offended please forgive me, since I need this mercy more

than most others.

 

(HH Bhakti Caru Swami has written a nice docket on this topic and I was

fortunate to get it from VIHE and I am thankful that devotees are giving me

chances to remind myself of this repeatedly. I recommend a copy of this to

all those who think this is important in devotional life.)

 

I would like to present some of my views on the mail sent by H.G. Ram

Lakshman Prabhu from an article apparently written by H.G. Jahnava Nitai

Prabhu. If I am not mistaken H.G. Jahnava Nitai Prabhu is running the

Bhaktivedanta Ashram & Bhaktivedanta International

Charities(http://www.foodrelief.org) and www.indiadivine.org; both of which

are in South India.

 

In expressing my views I may make some statements which I am quite sure is

known to and fully comprehended by many other devotees. However I may still

include them for the benefit of any devotee who may not have encountered

them or to refresh their memory.

I myself at many times have wished that in email discussions sometimes

senior devotees add more background information because I am either not well

versed enough with quotes or have forgotten many of them. Also the Folio is

not always at hand for everyone.

So please excuse me if it sounds like I am saying things that you already

know.

 

 

> ---

> "Food For Life" or "Food For Death"?

> by Jahnava Nitai Das

> ---

>

> The following article has been written in response to claims by several

> senior ISKCON leaders that distribution of prasadam to poor people is an

> offense to Srila Prabhupada and is against his wishes (hence they have

> given it the name "Food For Death"). For those who do not have the time to

> go through the entire article, I have included a few quotes at the top to

> at least balance the accusations made by these people. For anyone who is

> interested to know the truth of the matter, I request you to read through

> this entire article, as these ISKCON leaders have been using deception to

> mislead the public on this subject.

 

 

This is a quote from the Spiritual Master and Disciple

______________________

Once, in Melbourne, a group of Christian ministers came to visit me. They

asked, "What is your idea of Jesus Christ?" I told them, "He is our guru. He

is preaching God consciousness, so he is our spiritual master." The

ministers very much appreciated that.

Actually, anyone who is preaching God's glories must be accepted as a guru.

Jesus Christ is one such great personality. We should not think of him as an

ordinary human being. The scriptures say that anyone who considers the

spiritual master to be an ordinary man has a hellish mentality. If Jesus

Christ were an ordinary man, then he could not have delivered God

consciousness.

The Science of Self-Realization

_______________________

 

Undoubtedly many of these ISKCON leaders who are being referred to by H.G.

Jahnava Nitai Prabhu are bringing people to KC and have " delivered God

consciousness" to people. Hence by SP's definition " Actually, anyone who is

preaching God's glories must be accepted as a guru". Hence they are worthy

of my respect since I havent done even a small fraction of what they have

done. Even if I managed to bring as many or more people into KC still it is

my duty as a Vaishnava to respect them. If I differ in my views with them

then it is best for my bhakti latha that I discuss the matter in a

respectful manner with them.

 

 

> ---

> "Food For Life" or "Food For Death"?

> ---

>

> Every year this argument comes up on different ISKCON related forums,

> always being pushed forward by the same two or three people, most notably

> Swami J. and Swami B. They follow the same tactics each time. Post two or

> three short controversial quotations (nicely clipped and edited) from

> Prabhupada that make it appear that distribution of prasadam to poor

> people is a great offense, but offer no further explanation on the matter.

> They purposely don't offer any context for the quotes, nor do they offer

> any explanation of what they could possibly mean. They want to fool the

> readers into thinking that the one or two sentences they posted summarize

> every thing that can be known in regards to Prabhupada's view on prasadam

> distribution for all times and all places. It is certainly dishonest on

> their part.

>

 

H.G. Jahnava Nitai Prabhu as far as my limited understanding goes must be

doing some very nice work in his organisation. He sends out nice articles

and quotes and I have seen some pictures. They sometimes show nice children

smiling, I think some of them are wearing tilak and I hope some are chanting

etc. So he seems to be doing nice preaching work.

 

I however had a doubt. The site sells deities of Durga, Ganesha and other

demigods and also books are available for download such as Shankara's

bhashya on Bhagavad Gita etc. Isn't it dangerous to expose the general

populace to mayavada philosophy? I think Lord Caitanya asked His followers

to desist from this. Would it be a good thing for a Vaishnava to propogate

these books? I am aware that they can be got elsewhere also. But some may

argue about animal slaughter also in the same way. The animal would have

been killed anyways by someone else.

 

Second doubt is regarding the sale of demigod deities. Shouldnt we be

preaching against such misdirected worship? Is propogating demigod worship

the right thing for a Vaishnava? Please enlighten me on these things.

 

However I can see from the numerous activities that are going on in that

organisation that H.G. Jahnava Nitai Prabhu is a very talented young

grihasta. He has taken on the huge task of helping people very nicely and is

working very hard at it.

 

What worries me is that ISKCON has lost such a nice devotee as himself who

is doing good work under the banner of another organisation. My limited

understanding is that SP did not want this to happen. He wanted devotees to

cooperate and work in ISKCON itself. This way it is beneficial to everyone.

Hence it is my duty to SP that I not leave ISKCON until I am kicked out..and

even if this happens, I must repeatedly, periodically and regularly knock on

the ISKCON door and try to come back in. This should be my offering for the

pleasure of SP and my expression of my love for SP.

SP said something to the effect that our love for him will be seen by how

much we cooperate with each other and work within ISKCON.

___________________

Letter to: Bhanutanya

—

Tehran

14 March, 1975

75-03-14

Brooklyn

My dear Bhanutanya dasi,

Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated March

6, 1975 and have noted the contents. You should understand that Krishna

Consciousness is a purificatory process. One may not be purified

immediately, but since he is on the right path for purification, one should

not criticize him for some faults that he may still have. Just because some

body has made some mistakes does that mean that you should give up your

whole career in Krishna Consciousness? What will that accomplish? Simply

more rebirth and death. The fact that you have left our movement just on

account of some minor disagreements shows that you are not actually serious

about going back to home, back to Godhead. I suggest that you become serious

about spiritual life and try to overlook the minor offenses of others. You

should keep yourself in the association of devotees, chant at least 16

rounds, read my books and follow all of the rules and regulations very

strictly.

I hope this meets you in good health.

Your ever well-wisher,

A.C. Bhaktivedanta Svami

ACBS/ps

____________________

 

In this other letter also SP urges devotees to cooperate and not fight

____________________

Letter to: Alanatha

—

Bombay

13 November, 1975

75-11-13

Stockholm

My dear Alanatha das,

Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated

November 4, 1975, with the enclosed copies of the Yoga Library in Swedish

language. The get-up is very nice and I think they will sell very, very

well. Just see what books we are publishing all over our Society in all the

languages. Where is the CIA message in our books that they are claiming?

They are claiming that we are CIA's, but where is the CIA message in our

books? Our books are simply on the basis of Krsna consciousness. What better

service are we doing than publishing these books?

But one thing is disturbing me, are these reports coming from Sweden. These

books are translated by Vegavan and Ajita, so they are rendering good

service to you. Do not deal with them by force. They are competent hands, so

why fight with them? Do everything amicably. This fighting is going on

everywhere. It is not a good sign. I know the fight spirit is there in you,

within the Westerners, that even if you do not care to fight, someone will

induce you to fight. Rather, you should make vigorous propaganda for making

people understand the utility of the Krsna consciousness philosophy. It is

not something speculative. Make your plans, organize, and then execute in

order to increase all of our Krsna consciousness programs. This will be

better.

I hope this meets you in good health.

Your ever well wisher,

A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

ACBS/BS/mdd

 

_____________________

 

I am sure there must be some reason why any devotee feels like leaving

ISKCON. He/She may have some strong reasons and disagreements...but I should

try to remember Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu's teaching of tŠ€d api sun…cena

taror api sahiŠun€: this way we will be able to endure some criticism and

also wrongs done to us...and in this way if I can continue to stay in ISKCON

SP will be pleased. Also the sastras say that we should have strong faith in

Krishna and know that by serving Him as per the dictates of the acharyas we

will be saved. This faith is needed. So even if I have some bad situation in

ISKCON, I should force myself to stay on; understanding that its not the

other devotee who is being nasty to me, but its the result of my karma that

I am getting harassed.

 

SP says" However, the other item, karma, is not eternal. The effects of

karma may be very old indeed. We are suffering or enjoying the results of

our activities from time immemorial, but we can change the results of our

karma, or our activity, and this change depends on the perfection of our

knowledge."

 

So staying with devotees in ISKCON is the best thing for me to do.

I should rectify the problems and beg forgiveness for offenses I made or did

not make and coexist nicely within ISKCON.

 

"Letter to: Jayapataka

—

Auckland

14 April, 1972

72-04-14

Calcutta

My dear Jayapataka Maharaja,

 

-----

One thing, I have received on complaint from Damodara Maharaja that there

was some quarrel with Acyutananda Maharaja. I do not know what is the fact,

but we should avoid any quarrel with our godbrothers, and always be very

nice and kind to them, and cooperate with them. Because Damodara Maharaja is

offended, so Acyutananda Maharaja should go to Damodara and beg his

forgiveness, and bow and touch his feet. There is no harm in such behavior

of begging forgiveness. _____

 

 

 

> In an attempt to offer a more balanced view of Prabhupada's actual

> instructions, I will refute some of their arguments and show in what

> context Srila Prabhupada made various statements. Again, I would like to

> mention that this argument comes up each year, and they know all of these

> refutations, but they continue to misrepresent Prabhupada to fulfill their

> ulterior motives (we will go into what that is later). First let us

 

It is very hard for me to judge the motives of another individual. I am a

normal human being. Hence for me to make an accusation is to consider myself

perfect, which I certainly am not.

 

SP says" We ordinary human being, we have got four defects. First of all we

commit mistake. Even big, big men, they commit mistake, because to err is

human. Committing mistake is not a disqualification. As a human being, he is

prone to commit mistake, everyone accepts: E&OE-errors and omission

excepted. Similarly, a man is in illusion. Illusion means, just like the

example of illusion is the mirage. In the desert or in very scorching heat,

summer season, you can find before your car there is water, reflection. So

this is called illusion. There is no water, but it appears there is vast

mass of water. The animals are bewildered. They are thirsty, they go to the

desert to take water. Where is water in the desert? This is called illusion.

So mistake, to commit mistake, to become illusioned, and to the propensity

of cheating. Every man is imperfect, but he is talking just like perfect.

That is called cheating. The so-called scientists, philosophers, they are

theorizing, "It may be,Perhaps." So what is this knowledge, "Perhaps,"

"It may be"? That is not knowledge. Say definitely. But nobody can say. They

are blind. The doctor is giving medicine, but he is not definitely sure

whether his patient will die or live. If you ask him whether the person is

going to live, "Oh, that depends on God." Ultimately depends on God—although

he is posing himself that authorized, he is giving scientific medicine. If

you are giving scientific medicine, why you are not sure? This is called

cheating. While he is not sure, still he says, "I am scientific man." This

is one defect. And of all these defects, there is sublime defect that our

senses are imperfect. All our senses.

 

>

> bhuktavatsu ca sarveshu

> dinandha-kripanadishu

> vishnos tat prinanam vidvan

> bhunjita saha bandhubhih

>

> "One should distribute vishnu-prasada to everyone, including the poor man,

> the blind man, the nondevotee and the non-brahmana. Knowing that Lord

> Vishnu is very pleased when everyone is sumptuously fed with

> vishnu-prasada, the performer of yajna should then take prasada with his

> friends and relatives."

 

I think there is nothing wrong with distributing Vishnu Prasadam and my

understanding is that we are being asked to carefully examine our motives

for our actions.

 

 

> geyam gita nama sahasram

> dhyeyam shripati rupamajashram

> neyam sajjana sange cittam

> deyam dinajanaya ca vittam

>

> "The Bhagavad Gita and the Vishnu Sahasranama should be sung; the form of

> the lord of Lakshmi (Vishnu) should always be meditated on; the mind

> should be led to the company of the saintly; and your wealth should be

> distributed in charity to the poor and the needy."

>

 

Isnt giving KC the biggest charity? Prasadam distribution is glorious. It

gives the recepient a contact with Krishna.

 

But this process may be a slow one.

 

Why not be more charitable and apply all possible means to save the

distressed and hungry people of the world?

Why not do kirtan while they eat?

Why not preach KC to them once they eat?

Why not encourage them and if possible coax them to serve to spread KC?

 

If all these things can be done along with prasadam distribution then the

potency of the activity will multiply. We will have many many more devotees

who will help us more in all our preaching activities including prasadam

distribution. This may be the point that some devotees are trying to make.

 

My limited intelligence cannot fault that logic.

 

For example if I were preaching, I will focus my energies more on the

listener who is more favorable, rather than work endlessly trying to help

one who is very resistant.

Why would I do this? Specially when all souls are meant to go back and I am

supposed to assist all of them...firstly because with my limited strength I

cant convince all kinds of people....secondly if i convert one..then i have

two people fighting on my side...this is better than me alone..

 

however as SP said...I must"boil the milk"....to boil the milk..i have to

first get new devotees..and then focus on strenghtening them....

 

so if i run a system wherein i give prasadam to people...and then dont

follow up with preaching, kirtan etc then it is less likely that i will make

devotees soon..and specially not so good ones........this is a general

observation...exceptions may be there..

 

this principle holds not only for prasadam distribution but for book

distribution also..as my dull brain understands from a SP quote..

 

Point to ponder 1

---------------

 

I was reading Srila Prabhupada's conversation books and came across this

wonderful point. It is not possible to understand the philosophy of Krishna

Consciousness from books without cleansing oneself also. Hence it is so

important for us to follow up with the people whom we distibute books to and

encourage them to chant and follow the 4 regulative principles. Else it will

not be possible for them to understand Krishna Consciousness. So its good if

as preachers we follow up on the people who take books and give them good

association. However as Srila Prabhupada mentions further in his

conversations, if the person reads and appreciates the book, he will make

some advancement. Even if he touches a book it is beneficial. So there is no

loss for the person who buys the book. Hence we owe it to SP to distribute

his books and also preach further to the fortunate recepients of the books.

 

Jai Srila Prabhupad

_____________________

Excerpt from July 5 1975, Room Conversations.

 

Devotee: ®r…la Prabhup€da, because you are presenting this knowledge so

purely, then it's possible for the common man to understand this knowledge

without chanting and following the four regulative principles.

Prabhup€da: That is not possible. That is not possible.

Ceto-darpaŠa-m€rjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. You have to cleanse the mirror of

your consciousness, then the reflection will be properly viewed. If you keep

it dirty, then it is not possible. Therefore we require first-class men to

understand this philosophy, not the fourth-class man. If you keep him

fourth-class man, it is not possible.

 

-------

 

 

 

 

> In the writings of Bhaktivinoda Thakur we find the same instruction

> conveyed:

>

> "It is an utmost duty of every householder to honor his guests, help the

> poor and fallen, and try to associate with saintly persons. Due to the

> lack of proper education and training nowadays people do not consider

> honoring guests and helping the poor as a duty."

>

this is a wonderful point...this is the idea of programs like Bhakti Vriksha

etc...which teach these values to householders...

 

instead of utilising our manpower on large scale prasadam

distribution...wouldnt it be nicer if we had many many grihastas practicing

these ideals....so we should boldly preach these concepts to the

congregation..and spend a lot of time on this..

 

if the ISKCON congregation takes on this role..then it frees up temple

devotees to take on the major task of more preaching. and the social

goodwill etc will anyways come to ISKCON only.

 

however in certain circumstances temple devotees themselves will have to

take charge of distribution...like Indradyumna Maharaj in Sri Lanka..or

Madan Mohan Prabhu in Chechnya etc. because these are emergencies..and

require far greater skills, tenacity, fearlessness...and involve

instability...which many grihastas cannot take...not because they are

incapable..but because the nature of grihasta ashram is usually such.

 

In all circumstances..i would think that the principle of phalena pariciyate

holds..if by the results of an action...many new devotees are made...and

they are good and steady..then it is justified...

 

however some may still argue there...whether we underutilised the great

potential of a preacher in a task which someone else could have also done to

achieve nearly the same results...i however am not competent to enter such a

discussion.

 

> Swami J. and his supporters make the following claims, which we will deal

> with below:

>

> 1) That prasadam feeding directed to the poor should not be done as it is

> discriminating based on their material circumstances.

 

i think they are saying that dont hold a consciousness that prasadam is

meant only for the poor...it is meant for all...some can pay..some get it

free...

H.G. Jahnava Nitai Prabhu has also analysed this aspect to arrive at the

same conclusion.

 

> 2) That distribution of prasadam may only be conducted in ISKCON temple

> compounds, and that we should never take prasadam to villages or slums for

> distribution.

 

I cannot pose to understand the minds of such great devotees as Jayadvaita

Maharaj. However it seems to me that he is saying that if distribution is

done in a temple surrounding...then the chances of influencing the people

with KC are higher.

More bang for the buck.

In the village...some devotees may go...have a small kirtan..and distribute

prasadam..and maybe have a small talk each time...(unfortunately in programs

like Akshay Patra, my information is that this rarely happens)

 

It may happen in an Indian village where people go for prasadam

distribution..that villagers will sit and chat mundane things amongst

themselves while devotees (or in worse cases..karmis) serve...some villagers

may be smoking beedis or other intoxicants like ganja..some may be

inebriated...

 

in a temple setting...most people dont come drunk..they remain sober..they

dont smoke....also we can control their gossiping for sometime....this way

they will be more respectful to prasadam..and will honour it to a better

degree...hence they will benefit more from the prasadam...

 

 

> "That prasadam is also Isa [God]. The prasadam accepted by Krishna,

> offered to Krishna, is also Krishna. So if we give prasadam, then he is

> getting the opportunity of associating with Krishna. This is our idea. But

> people very much appreciate poor-feeding. So that, you can take it."

>

 

SP says:"The Lord says, patraˆ pupaˆ phalaˆ toyam: He is ready to accept

from the devotee any kind of offering, never mind what. Even a leaf, a

flower, a bit of fruit, or a little water, which are all available in every

part of the world, can be offered by any person, regardless of social

position, and will be accepted if offered with love."

 

Hence when Bhoga is offered to the Lord...it should be offered with

love..this is essential..hence the cook and the person who offers should be

devotees...they should cook with love and offer with love..

 

sometimes it so happens that we may take up a massive program of Food

relief....and use non devotee cooks to meet up the demand for so much

prasadam....but Krishna may not accept such an offering cooked by a

non-devotee...

 

Then is such distribution of food....prasadam distribution??

 

> "We are giving you prasadam. And that is fact, that by eating, eating,

> eating, eating, you one day will become Krishna conscious. Simply by

> eating."

 

this does not mean that SP does not want us to accelerate the process of

making them KC. So any prasadam distribution I do should be combined with

the other elements of devotional service...

 

By this statement SP is glorifying prasadam...not saying that we should not

employ more appropriate means to help the jiva faster.

 

 

> Swami J. claims that the distribution of prasadam to poor people is the

> same as other organizations' material welfare work? Srila Prabhupada

> disagrees with this view:

 

if the bhoga is not prepared and offered with love..then it may not be

prasadam.

 

> Srila Prabhupada was interested in giving prasadam to everyone, as the

> spiritual effects are needed by all people, rich or poor, yet he said,

> "But America has money. Here they have no money. So preference should be

> given in India. They're poor."

>

> When Swami J. was shown this statement he admitted "so Srila Prabhupada

> said apparently different things at different times". He admits that

 

A great man always accepts the superior authority of SP. So "Swami J."

should be honored for this. He is a faithful follower of SP.

 

I would request that this be an exchange of opposing ideas and not of

character assasinations or personality attacks.

 

 

> "Generally people make a plea that why are there so many hungry and naked.

> So we invite all hungry and naked people to come to us and we will give

> them food and clothing and Krishna consciousness as well. This will

> attract the general public and there will never be any shortage of

> food-stuffs, so continue regularly. In Bombay there are many generous

> persons who like food distribution programs, and actually, our temple

> should be the via media for feeding the poor with food and spiritual

> knowledge."

 

I agree with H.G. Jahnava Nitai Prabhu whole heartedly here.

But there are a few things to note

1. "food and clothing and Krishna consciousness as well." this means he

wanted to give KC in more forms than prasadam.

2. SP seems to be inviting them "to come to us". this however may be altered

as per time, place, circumstance.

3.if every home is a temple...then it becomes a different meaning. this is

the objective of Congregational preaching and the desire of Srila

Bhaktivinoda Thakura that grihastas feed others.

4.i agree that via media may not always mean "premises of temple" but

broadly a place where the consciousness is centered around Krishna. this

however puts a tremendous responsibility of creating a good devotional

environment in the place of charity. this is needed to impart spiritual

knowledge, the absence of which will make the process less effective and

immediate.

5. via media can also mean..that we control the policy and management but

the implementation is done by grihasta devotees..this way temple resident

devotees can carry on other tasks like preaching.

 

 

> People want to feed the poor and will anyway feed the poor through so many

> other organizations, so Prabhupada expertly devised a system to utilize

> them in spreading Krishna consciousness through prasadam distribution to

> the poor. Prabhupada explains this perfect system of dovetailing charity

> as follows:

 

very true.

 

> "So charity, or sacrificing your possession for the benefit of others,

> this is also yajna. But they are called karma-kanda yajna, fruitive

> activities. By such performance of yajna, one can elevate his material

> position. Just like feeding the poor. It is also yajna. But the same

> thing, if it is dovetailed in consciousness, that becomes perfect. People

> are very much inclined to feed the poor with sumptuous food, but it can be

> done in a little different way, that the foodstuff offered to Vishnu,

> prasada, that distribution foodstuff is better than ordinary distribution

> of foodstuff. Ordinarily, that is punya, pious activities, but when it is

> connection with Krishna, this is called yajna. Dravya-yajna. To distribute

> food and cloth, that is called dravya-yajna, but yajna can be said when it

> is done, dovetailing the activities with Krishna consciousness."

 

on a superficial look a devotional service may seem like karma kanda and

vice versa. what separates the two is the consciousness of the performer of

the task. my understanding is that SP named our movement ISKCON..because we

are based on Consciousness of Krishna.

 

hence i would like to reiterate that we need to have highly KC people

involved in this important task of prasadam preparation and distribution

else it may end up becoming karma kanda...because in some instances the food

would never have become prasadam to start with.

 

if servers have bad consciousness wont we end up offending the public also?

 

> In summary, let us remember the famous story of Srila Prabhupada when he

> saw children fighting with dogs to eat the left-over prasadam from

> discarded leaf plates. After seeing this he was so moved that he

> instructed all temples to organize prasadam distribution so that no one in

> a 10 km radius should go hungry. After seeing all of the statements from

> Prabhupada above, and remembering this pastime of Srila Prabhupada, I

> think all of you will agree that Prabhupada was taking into consideration

> the hunger and poverty of these children when he gave that instruction.

 

I think we should all take this instruction to heart and if its appropriate

organisations which have funds collected for Prasadam distribution, should

seriously consider donating money to temples which may not be having

sufficient funds to fulfill this order of SP.

 

Additionaly successful fund raisers like H.G. Jahnava Nitai Prabhu should

train others in this art to ensure that all temples can give prasadam within

atleast a 10 km radius. This will truly represent SP desire for cooperation.

Would it not be better to use one's talent within ISKCON?

 

> In any society there are different departments that focus on different

> activities, wherein we incorporate intelligent discrimination. We have

> departments that focus on cultivating the rich donors and life members.

> For them there is special free prasadam, often brought to their house or

> shop. No one has objected to this discrimination. Prabhupada himself has

> said we may give special free prasadam to the "big men" and donors. For

> the devotees there is prasadam distributed in the temple regularly, and as

> many of us have seen, there too we have discrimination; "Where is your

> prasadam coupon?" The senior swamis and gurus in ISKCON also have special

> prasadam distributed to them, often cooked by private cooks exclusively

 

I agree, it would be desirable to be able to serve as many devotees and non

devotees as possible with prasadam.

 

> for them; again discrimination. If a poor stinking dirty man comes, will

> any sannyasi or guru have him sit next to them and eat prasadam? To be

 

would someone have allowed such a man to sit next to SP? any sanyasi has to

be respected. SP himself showed by example when he treated his sanyasi

disciples very respectfully and he also urged others to do so.

 

then there is the other aspect of time and resource management.

to train a 5 year old child we dont need a sanyasi. a novice like me can

falteringly attempt that.

it would be better to utilise the sanyasis time to train senior devotees or

deal with more important matters.

 

it is certainly not about arrogance. for example when HH Radhanath Swami

came for Kartik to Vrindavan. Some urchins approached him for alms and as

any visitor knows they can harass most people. Maharaj was so merciful that

he treated them with so much love and respect. In fact he embraced them in a

compassionate manner and these kids glowed with transcendental smiles.

So the potency of pure devotees should not be underestimated.

It is hard for ordinary people like me to really decipher or understand a

great devotee or the Lord Himself. I might foolishly make a material

calculation about the actions of the Lord or His devotees.

 

Non-devotees, envious people etc cannot understand the Lord or His devotees.

It is due to my envious nature that I am still suffering in this material

world.

 

SP says in BG 7.15

 

na m€ˆ duktino m™h€ƒ

prapadyante nar€dham€ƒ

m€yay€pahta-jñ€n€

€suraˆ bh€vam €rit€ƒ

 

Those miscreants who are grossly foolish, who are lowest among mankind,

whose knowledge is stolen by illusion, and who partake of the atheistic

nature of demons do not surrender unto Me.

 

in the puport SP says"........Unfortunately, they never surrender to the

supreme master of all masters, nor do they take time to hear of Him from the

proper sources. ....

 

So the nar€dhama who is condemned by the Personality of Godhead can again

revive his spiritual consciousness only by the mercy of a devotee.

......

®r… Caitanya Mah€prabhu, in propagating the bh€gavata-dharma, or activities

of the devotees, has recommended that people submissively hear the message

of the Personality of Godhead. The essence of this message is Bhagavad-g…t€.

The lowest amongst human beings can be delivered by this submissive hearing

process only, but unfortunately they even refuse to give an aural reception

to these messages, and what to speak of surrendering to the will of the

Supreme Lord? Nar€dhamas, or the lowest of mankind, willfully neglect the

prime duty of the human being....

.....

All the unauthorized interpretations of the G…t€ by the class of

m€yay€pahta-jñ€n€ƒ, outside the purview of the parampar€ system, are so

many stumbling blocks on the path of spiritual understanding. The deluded

interpreters do not surrender unto the lotus feet of ®r… KŠa, nor do they

teach others to follow this principle.

 

_______________________

 

so as per SP it is our duty to surrender to the devotees of the Lord,

associate with them and then go back..back home..

 

in BG 9.3 purport SP says "The faithless cannot accomplish this process of

devotional service; that is the purport of this verse. Faith is created by

association with devotees."

 

So we should all try to cooperate and stay in ISKCON and truly associate in

a nice fashion...not have only joint mess...we should mean Prabhu when we

say it..and serve..then KC will come.

and when we have true KC..then we can give it to others..then it will truly

bear fruit...wonderful results..the way SP did..and so many of his disciples

and granddisciples after him.

 

> First let there be no distinction between the food Swami J. eats, the food

> bhakta Joe eats, the food the life member eats and the food the poor

> beggar eats when he comes to our temple. Then let them speak about freedom

> from mundane discrimination.

 

Trust me Prabhuji, I have seen what some of the sanyasis eat..and the rigor

and trouble they take to preach...its hard for normal devotees like me to

ever match up to such high standards. I am glad I get to eat so much and

such little service to do....my weak body, mind and consciousness is not

ready for more yet!!!!

 

> When we sell books to the public, we look for people who will buy the

> book. We discriminate. We don't ask every Tom, Dick and Harry to buy the

> book. Do we go to the poor and homeless to sell our books? No, we go to

> the rich, because they can pay us better for the book. This is also

> discrimination. Intelligent discrimination must be there to properly

> direct our efforts to where they will be most beneficially received.

 

brilliant point....however one can setup a fund for free distribution of

books for the poor..SP will love that...since its the order of his Guru to

distribute books....and intelligent devotees can take time off from other

engagements to preach the contents of the books to the illiterate masses.

 

> Who is more qualified to receive prasadam then someone who will appreciate

> it? In the Sunday feasts our trash cans are full of Krishna prasadam, but

 

All people should be trained to appreciate prasadam. If trash cans are full

of prasadam being wasted..then management must pull up their socks and

correct that..and they should preach the importance of prasadam to

congregation. the alternative is not to stop feeding them ...but to teach

them to "honor" not eat prasadam.

 

and making them pay for the prasadam does not then justify letting them

waste it.

 

> when we distribute to the poor villagers in India, they will even eat the

> plain rice that is left, without any subji or dahl. Some have said the

> poor may confuse the prasadam for mundane food, but what have the devotees

> done? Do they actually understand that prasadam is Krishna, or do they eat

> to remove their mundane hunger?

 

 

> If someone said, "Let's go perform harinama in the poor slum." Will there

> be any objection? No. But if someone says "Let us distribute prasadam in

> the poor slum." There is objection. So who is seeing Krishna as mundane?

> It is the devotees who object to this distribution of Krishna prasadam.

> They see the prasadam as food, not as Krishna, and therefore they confuse

> it for a mundane activity.

>

 

certainly prasadam seva is not a mundane activity. each process of

devotional service is potent. according to the experience of many devotees

sravanam and kirtanam are among the best for beginners, if its accompanied

with prasadam even better.

 

however distributing prasadam costs money and more resources than do

kirtan..hence its easier to apply..and yet very potent...

 

Also SP said Kirtana is our first duty. So my humble suggestion is that the

Akshay Patra management include this Kirtana in abundance and then add

prasadam to this program. Then we will have more results...in a previous

mail i had requested for statistics of students or other recepients of

prasadam who became devotees..full time or congregation...rounds they chant

etc....though we have statistics of 80,000 consumers of prasadam...i would

be very thrilled to hear of some figure in thousands of children who are

chanting...and also the facts about preaching to their families.

 

 

Letter to: Palika

—

Bombay

13 November, 1975

75-11-13

Los Angeles

My dear Palika devi dasi,

Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated

November 27, 1975. Yes, the separation of man and woman is desirable. If

Yamuna and yourself can develop such an institution of a woman's asrama,

that will be nice. You are all elderly devotees. I think that this will be a

good idea.

If you produce milk, you should not drink milk very much. Rather, you should

save it and convert it into ghee and then sell it to the householders and

centers and thus maintain your asrama. The excess quantity of ghee may be

exchanged by trade. Kirtana is our first duty. The Deity worship should be

simple and the eating should be as meager as possible.

I hope this meets you in good health.

Your ever well wisher,

A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

ACBS/BS/mdd

 

> "Everywhere. In the hospitals, charitable societies, Industrial places,

> everywhere - distribute this prasada and chant this Hare Krishna. Just see

> what is the result. You want peace? These are the processes of peace."

 

both need to be done....only distribution of prasadam alone is not what SP

is recommending in your quote. and kirtan should ideally be abundant....it

should move the audience to tears....and make them dance spontaneously..then

its true kirtan. just a few minutes of The Holy Name is not enough for the

thirsty souls burning in the material world.

 

> "Now I am especially concerned to distribute grains, rice, wheat in the

> form of dal and rice prasadam to hungry people all over India... If the

> people do not even have sufficient food they will not even be able to

> receive spiritual instructions. So I am hopeful that if we can widely

> distribute free food-stuffs to the people of India, by giving it out at

> our centers, as well as our traveling parties to villages, we will win

> over the whole country and the whole world by this activity on Krishna's

> behalf."

 

Prasadam is the stepping stone to getting people ready to hear and

chant...if we only serve prasadam and then dont preach and chant..and engage

the masses more and more...we are losing a wonderful opportunity.

 

 

> "The idea of distribution of Prasadam is long standing, and I suggested

> this from the very beginning of my missionary activities, both in New

> York, and in San Francisco. But it has never come to any practical shape

> till now. Therefore, if you can actually start a Prasadam distribution

> program, it will be very very nice. But to start a separate restaurant for

> this purpose does not appeal to me. If we have Prasadam distribution

> program it is to be done in the temple premises, not separately. Separate

> attempt will require separate energy diverted from the temple management.

> Therefore if you do at all start Prasadam distribution, try to do it in

> the temple itself."

 

 

I agree that this can be a specific advice to this temple. However it has

scope to be generalised. The number of devotees available in temples to

carry on preaching work is much much lower than the need....there are

millions of people badly in need of some information about Krishna.

 

Hence we need to follow Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura's advice and engage

grihastas in this work. This may be better. Certainly using non devotees is

not a wonderful option.

 

 

>

> Today ISKCON has grown in capacity

> and in professionalism; much different than it was in 1970. For example,

> the Bangalore ISKCON temple feeds prasadam to more than 80,000 children a

> day throughout India - in places as far off as Vrindavan, Jaipur, Mysore,

> Bangalore, Hossur, Mangalore, etc. If Prabhupada were here today, he would

> be happy to see that his disciples were so capable and expert at

> distributing prasadam. But Swami J. and others, rather than appreciating

> this are busy fighting to have it stopped. Never mind the fact that they

> are not distributing any prasadam themselves, unless the luxurious private

> meals they have prepared for themselves count.

>

 

Regarding the Bangalore ISKCON temple the numbers are impressive. I have had

the honor to be one of the visitors there. Other visitors included the

President of India and other prominent citizens. So I was priviliged to be

allowed.

A clarification in this regard is that this is not an ISKCON project. It

works under the banner of a separate trust called Akshaya Patra.

 

1)They use large cookers and a more or less automated method of cooking.

2)The kitchens are quite clean.

3)The workers are paid and appeared to be non devotees.

4)Since the work happens in the early hours of the morning, say 2 AM or

so...there probably is very limited devotee monitoring.

5)Paid workers haul the food into vans and distribute it to schools.

6)Kirtan is rare in schools.

7)Prasadam is made to appear like a regular hygienic meal to outsiders. Its

glories are not publicised, which may be appropriate in certain cases.

8)There is a lot of good public appeal.

 

Hence its a mixed bag of good and bad points from the KC point of view.

 

Krishna may not accept the offerings made by non-devotees. He always

reserves the choice to accept or reject.

 

The process of offering is as per the ritvik system. This system does not

have a basis in sastra and is not endorsed by sadhus from other leading

sampradayas. The temple management believes this is what SP wanted for

ISKCON and that this is the right method. This is contestable.

So as per the basis of the validating anything which SP taught us...it

clearly fails on 2 counts..sadhu and sastra.....and even Guru is contested.

 

Another interesting thing that can be seen is this....the staff in the

temple are nearly all paid..they wear white clothes..and even man the book

counters...thats a big responsibility for a non- devotee to preach from SP

books at the book counters...

 

The pujaris seem to be fewer than needed...they even have a Sri Vaishnava

pujari, who dressed in full Sri Vaishnava attire carries the Lord during

palki utsav.

 

If there are so few devotees available for core activities like Diety

worship one can imagine the number of devotees engaged in cooking for the

school children. Even the guest house kitchen etc has hired cooks.

 

Wouldn't it be better to first focus on getting more devotees to serve the

temple without looking for monetary gains?

 

sa vai puˆs€ˆ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokaje

ahaituky apratihat€

yay€tm€ supras…dati

 

The supreme occupation [dharma] for all humanity is that by which men can

attain to loving devotional service unto the transcendent Lord. Such

devotional service must be unmotivated and uninterrupted to completely

satisfy the self.

 

Wouldnt it be better to first boil the milk?

 

Would this whole thing of feeding children be an over endeavor? Is there are

a lot of stress on temple inmates to collect funds to keep this program

running?

I am asking this question because I experienced that general people were

being pushed a lot to contribute for Akshay Patra as against the major

stress on book distribution in many other temples I have seen.

 

I was thinking...correct me if I am wrong...Its possible to get money...its

fairly easy to earn fame(checkout our hypocrite politicians), its harder to

get power(for there are many yearing for it)...but of all things its hardest

to get good men and women who are really committed to serve the Supreme Lord

Sri Krishna.

 

It is in this endeavor that we should focus our attention the most.

 

manuy€Š€ˆ sahasreu

kacid yatati siddhaye

yatat€m api siddh€n€ˆ

kacin m€ˆ vetti tattvataƒ

 

Out of many thousands among men, one may endeavor for perfection, and of

those who have achieved perfection, hardly one knows Me in truth.

 

SP says in the purport

"No one can understand KŠa as He is by the blunt material senses. But He

reveals Himself to the devotees, being pleased with them for their

transcendental loving service unto Him." (Bhakti-ras€mta-sindhu 1.2.234)

 

So if we focus on finding quality devotees rather than quantity and develop

the existing devotees and "boil the milk" then Krishna can be pleased.

 

And if Krishna is pleased..then all will be pleased...if the root is well

watered then all the parts will be nourished...

 

to my limited understanding this means that if we are serving Krishna

well...atleast His deity in the temple..and His devotees...who have

dedicated their life for His service..then He may get pleased...

and if He is pleased...by His grace we can feed not 80,000 children but over

80 million.

 

So to start with offensive people like me should first be careful to avoid

making the first offense to the Holy Name. Please bless me so that I may

never make any offense of any kind.

 

1. The first and foremost offence is the act of defaming the great saints

who have glorified the chanting of the Name of the Lord by example in their

own life and precepts. According to ordinary moral principles no one must be

defamed for serving any ulterior motive. But still according to the gravity

of different offences, defamation of Saints who have done much for the

propagation of the Name of God and His Fame must be considered the gravest

of all offences. Those who are therefore accustomed to defame such saints,

are spiritually great offenders and such persons can have no access to the

transcendental Name of the Lord. We should therefore be guard against such

offence.

 

So I pray from the devotees who participate in this discussion from making

personal attacks on any devotee specially senior devotees...because its

harmful for both the aggressor and the hearers.

 

 

I am a neophyte devotee and would have made numerous errors of omission and

commission. I may also have overstepped my limits and also offended some

devotees...these mails are my way of learning how to interact with

intelligent and well read Vaishnavas and also aid me in understanding more

solidly the Vaishnava philosophy....by making the mistakes that I make

here...among friends, well wishers and superiors...... I will one day be

able to preach well to the masses outside.....I pray that devotees not take

offence...rather I pray that they take mercy on my degraded fallen

state.....on my lack of knowledge, realisation and devotion..and bless

me...so I may live up to the high expectations they have from a follower of

SP.

 

your servant

 

Mahaprabhu Caitanya das

 

P.S. forgive the long mail...for the mail I commented on was very long and

fairly detailed.