non-initiates performing arcana to installed deities in ISKCON temple

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhadra Govindaji, PAMHO AGTSP

 

On Jun 23, 2004, at 2:34 AM, Bhadra Govinda Dasa wrote:

 

> I am aware and understand fully well, what ever rules and regulations

> you

> and Gaura Kesava Prabhu are quoting. No where I have said, that we

> must

> condone these rules and regulations, for general circumstances.

 

Why rules and regulations should only be applicable in "general

circumstances"? Where does Sastra say anything about these rules ONLY

applying in "general circumstances" (whatever that means?)? You are the

person who must show by Sastra that there are exceptions, you are the

person who must show what the exceptions might be from Sastra, you are

the person who continually says that there are exceptions. But until

now you have not given even ONE sastric quote to support any of these

speculations. If you have a quote then let's hear it. I request a quote

from any Sanskrit or Bengali source stating that those without

Pancaratric Diksha are qualified to perform Pancaratric Arcana under

any circumstances. If you do not have such a quote then please desist

from pushing this non-sastric agenda.

 

> I am really

> surprised that, you are simply assuming things which I never said, and

> putting words into my mouth.

 

"Methinks he doth protest too much." (William Shakespeare) Why do you

keep belaboring this point? Just because you deny saying something,

doesn't mean you are not saying it. We have all your previous

statements in writing. You are in complete denial on this point. The

subject of these emails is "non-initiates performing arcana".

"non-initiates performing arcana" is NOWHERE accepted in Vaisnava

scriptures. It is not accepted by any Vaisnava Acharyas. So just give

it up.

 

> It is obvious that when I say " We do choose the best among the

> available

> lot" for what ever criteria it may be, that there is a basic minimum

> qualification.

 

Who says? You say! Who are you to say what the qualification is or is

not? When the Acharyas and Sastra say one thing, then who are you to

say otherwise? You quote your own words from your own email, "We do

choose the best among the available lot", as though they were Sastra.

That's NOT proof. Please if you are at all interested in discussion

quote from authorities like Acharyas and Sastra.

 

> Like today I was interviewing many candidates, for an

> engineer's post in our office. We gave a paper ad asking for minimum

> qualification, but I choose the best among the avalable candidates that

> applied for the job. This whole process took about 2 weeks time.

> Meanwhile, in the interim period, the functions of the engineer who

> left,

> were taken care of by assistant engineers. I am not advocating that we

> deliberately plan and allow any one with out any basic minimum

> qualification

> to be choosen for the vacant engineer's post.

 

I'm sure that you are a very qualified engineer. However engineering is

NOT Pancaratric Arcana. You have absolutely NO right to make statements

about engineering qualifications and think that the same applies to

Pancaratric Arcana. There may be a general tendency in this world to

accept a person less qualified for a job temporarily when no one fully

qualified is available. However there are certainly minumium

qualifications. The minimum qualification set by the Sastra and

Acharyas is Pancaratric Vaisnava Diksha.

 

Even if we accept your engineering example. You have said yourself that

you had the "ASSISTANT engineers" do the job temporarily. But your

argument for arcana is NOT to have the "ASSISTANT pujaris" do the job,

it is to have NON pujaris do the job. So unless you are willing to have

people who are NOT engineers do your engineering job please don't ask

anyone who is NOT a pujari to do puja. The minimum qualification to be

a pujari (a person who offers Pancaratric puja) is to be initiated into

the Pancaratric Mantras.

 

Admittedly not all persons with Pancaratric Diksha know how to use the

mantras they have received through Diksha in the puja or some of the

other practical tasks involved in the puja. However they do have the

basic qualifications and can be instructed on the rest of the details.

Whereas how can I instruct a NON initiate to "Chant the Gopal mantra

ten times after touching the feet of the Lord". He/she will not

understand what I am talking about. Or if I say "Offer the item with

the mantra for the item plus the mula mantra for the particular deity"

Will anyone who is not a pujari understand? At least I am free to

explain the mantras and procedures to those who are NOT regular pujaris

but who ARE initiated. Do you suggest that I explain these mantras to

those who are NOT initiated? Mantras which they should get from their

Diksha Gurus at the time of Pancaratric Initiation. Would that not make

me their Diksha Guru. What are you thinking?

 

I think what you are suggesting is that we allow people to do puja

without using any of the secret mantras. Is that what you are saying?

Yet Srila Prabhupada instituted the system of Deity Worship in ISKCON

temples and said that it should not be changed. It includes certain

mantras which are not divulged except at Pancaratric initiation. Even

if we go against His Divine Graces instructions and allow this, the

very basis of arcana is that the devotee thinks that he/she is offering

everything through his/her Spiritual Master to the Lord. This has the

be the basic mentality. If however one DOES NOT HAVE a Spiritual Master

or has not been accepted by one through the process of Pancaratric

Diksha where the Guru authorizes the disciple to perform Pancaratric

puja, then again how can one perform Pancaratric puja?

 

> In unforseen circumstances, in times of emergency, I am referring to:

>

> I am asking at what level we draw the line for unforseen

> circumstances? 2nd

> initiation?

 

That's right. We are not drawing the line, Srila Prabhupada, the

Acharyas and the Sastra have already drawn the line. We have NO

qualifications to draw any new line, or lower the bar, or change that

in any way.

 

> If so, so be it.

 

Acceptance.

 

> First initiation, we draw the line? so be

> it.

 

Oh, Oh, again denial.

 

> All that I am asking is in unforseen circumstances, like we allow a

> twice initiated woman during her monthly cycle (only Gaudiya acaryas

> allow

> this) perform seva, similarly do Gaudiya acaryas allow for some

> relaxation

> when no qualified brahmana is around?

 

The circumstance that you have described is spoken of by Srila

Prabhupada in only one place. And the rest of the quote which you have

NOT given is that after he said that, he also said "BUT IT IS BETTER

NOT TO DO." So even this should be avoided. It is simple to avoid.

Especially in ISKCON temples as I also know of NO ISKCON Temples run

completely by Women. There is no ISKCON Temple with Deities where the

SOLE 2nd INITIATED DEVOTEE is a Woman.

 

Also please note that you have indicated that ALL Gaudiya Acharyas

accept this compromise. I do not believe this to be the case. It seems

to be something which only Srila Prabhupada gave. If we want to fully

understand the case in point we should research the actual situation

which he (Srila Prabhupada) was referring to in his letter. Do not take

things out of context.

 

Also it is very common nowadays to quote a letter and think that it

applies generally to all situations. Srila Prabhupada also made some

remarks in this regard. He wrote to Balai dasi and said in one famous

letter. Don't quote my letters. Those instructions are meant for

certain places, times, persons and circumstances. And concerning the

famous line "Prabhupada Said", he said "They say I said, but I never

said." So in my humble opinion although lectures, room conversations

and letters are certainly instructions from Srila Prabhupada, his main

and general instructions should be understood from his books. If we get

instructions from other sources than the books then we must also show

that they are applicable to the time, place and circumstance. And we

must understand them in the context in which they were written.

 

> For every rule there is an exception.

 

Please quote me the Sanskrit for this. Otherwise this is a bogus

statement not approved by Sastra.

 

> But we must understand that even for

> exception there is a rule.

 

Again no quote from Sastra. Speculation and word jugglery. First, every

rule has an exception then every exception has a further rule? What

nonsense! This is called "Catch 22".

 

> What is that rule for these exceptional cases

> according to Guru, Sadhu and Shastra?

 

I already told you what should be done. A person without Pancaratric

Vaisnava Diksha should worship the supreme Lord by the chanting of the

Holy Name (Bhagavata Vidhi NOT Pancaratric Vidhi) for which there is NO

qualification.

 

> Thank you for your valuable time.

 

If you really want to thank us, then please stop preaching anything

without the backing of Sastra.

 

> svalpamapi asya dharmasya trayate mahato bhayat.

>

> Declare boldly Arjuna, my devotee never perishes.

 

Since you have quoted from the Gita, I will too.

 

yah sastra vidhim utsrjya vartate kama karatah

NA sa siddhim avapnoti NA sukham NA param gatim

 

"He who discards scriptural injunctions and acts according to his own

whims attains neither perfection, nor happiness, nor the supreme

destination." (BG 16.23)

 

tasmac chastram pramanyam te karyakarya vyavasthitau

jnatva sastra vidhanoktam karma kartum iharhasi

 

"One should therefore understand what is duty and what is not duty by

the regulations of the scriptures. Knowing such rules and regulations,

one should act so that he may gradually be elevated." (BG 16.24)

 

sruti smrti puranadi pancaratra vidhim vina

aikantiki harer bhaktir utpatayaiva kalpate

 

bhaktir aikantikiveyamvicarat pratiyate

vastu tastu tatha naiva yadasastriyateksyate

 

It is said in Brahma Yamala that:

 

"Overzealous practice of Bhakti with disregard of the injunctions of

the Sruti, Smrti, Puranas and Pancaratras, etc. is simply a disturbance

in society. Actually such Bhakti only appears to be overzealous, but

truly speaking, it is NOT Bhakti at all, and consequently there is no

overzealousness in it, because all this is found to be antagonistic to

all scriptural injunctions. (Bhakti Rasamrta Sindu 2.101-2 by Rupa

Goswami)

 

sruti smrtih mamaivajna

yasyamullanghya vartate

ajnacchedi mama dohi

mad bhakto'pi NA vaisnavah

 

"The Sruti and the Smriti texts convey my commands. Whoever violates

them, that is, goes against the scriptural dictates, commits treason.

Even if he say that he is my devotee he is by NO means a Vaisnava."

 

> I pray for the mercy of that Supreme Lord Jagannatha, who allows even

> sabaras, the pig keepers to serve Him.--- Now, now don't assume

> that I am

> recommending we must in general allow all kinds of sabaras on to our

> altars.

> This is simply a prayer and realisation, that how merciful and

> supremely

> independent is our Lord.

 

Again you are showing your ignorance. The worship of Lord Jagannath in

Puri is NOT PANCARATRIC. It is performed according to the Pancopasana

system instituted by Sripad Sankaracarya. All the puja is perfomed

according to Smarta principles. The particular case involving the

Sabaras however is another Puri tradition involving the confinement and

restoration period between Snana and Ratha Yatras only. You should

also note that even in this situation the Sabaras DO NOT WORSHIP LORD

JAGANNATH, they are considered His kinsmen. All they do is offer Him

juices and herbs that represent medicine for His "alleged" cold. At the

time of repainting or remaking of the bodies of the

"Daru/Wooden"Brahman as Jagannath is termed it is said that the Lord is

recovering from sickness brought on by cold water bath (ie Snanayatra).

Immediately after the bath the deities are dressed in Hati Vesha and

worshiped as Ganesha (another Smarta ritual). Then they are handed over

to the care of the Sabaras (descendants of tribals) who are considered

by local tradition (NOT SASTRA) to be the original kin fold of Nila

Madhava (the name of the utsava murti in the temple who is identified

with Lord Jagannatha). Normally annually there is only repainting,

however every 12 years the Deities bodies are changed in a ceremony

called Nava Kalevara. At this time the oldest priest in the temple

(with gloves on his hands and blindfolded) transfers the "Brahman" from

each of the old deities to each of the new deities. This "Brahman" is

kept within a cavity in the chest of each deity. Since this is a secret

ritual it is unclear exactly what the "Brahman" is. It is speculated by

some to be salagramas, by others to be pieces of the original

"Daru/Wood", and yet by others as the corporal remains of Krsna,

Subhadra and Balarama. All of this is OBVIOUSLY NOT PANCARATRIC

VAISNAVA ARCANA.

 

Please contrast this with the Pancaratric method of Jirna Pratistha

performed by Vaisnavas. When the deity needs repair or repainting in

the Pancaratric system (according to Pancaratric Sastra) the Lord is

invited to be present in either the utsava deity or a kumbha/pot

temporarily while the appropriate repairs, etc are performed. Then

again the Lord is requested to accept worship through the newly painted

or made or restored deity. This is a type of re-installation. At NO

time is the worship stopped. And at NO time is the worship done by

those without proper Pancaratric Diksha.

 

ys

 

Gaura Keshava dasa