Minutes of ICC Guru Tattva meeting in Mumbai

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Minutes ICC Guru tattva Meetings in Bombay

Compiled by Veda Vyasa Priya Swami and Pancaratna das

Day 1 - December 8, 1998

 

Present:

H.H. Bhakti Swarupa Damodhara Swami, H.H. Bhaktividya Purna Swami, H.H.

Giriraja Swami, H.H. Gopal Krishna Goswami, H.H. Lokanath Swami, H.H.

Radhanatha Swami, H.H. Veda Vyasa Priya Swami (sec. ), H.G. Bhima Das

H.G. Jasomatinandana Das, H.G. Jnanagamya Das H.G. Mahaman Das, H.G.

Pancaratna Das (facilitator),

 

Morning Session

The first session was dedicated to setting the direction of the meeting by

taking the input of all the members in defining the core issues to be

discussed so that the dialog could be structured.

 

As a result issues were defined in the following categories:

 

1. History (Understanding the May 28th conversation, etc.)

2. Srila Prabhupada's position

3. Definitions of terms (like officiating acharya, rtvik, etc.)

4. Understanding Parampara

5. Unity in Diversity

6. Practical Application problems

 

 

The issues put forward by the group members are given at the end of the

document.

 

Afternoon Session

 

The afternoon session was dedicated to discussion of the first three

categories of issues. The primary focus was on understanding the May 28th

conversation use of the term "officiating acharya". A summary of the

conclusions of the discussion was later drafted and circulated to the

committee. Except for the rtvik supporters, there was a consensus on the

following:

 

"In answer to who would give first and second initiations after his

departure Srila Prabhupada said that he would "recommend some of you to act

as officiating acharya". He also accepted the description rtvik. He

explained that these officiating acharya were gurus and that their disciples

were his grand-disciples. He said that, in his presence, they would initiate

on his behalf. He said that "when I order .. he becomes regular guru".

 

We understand that by using the terms "officiating acharya", "on my order"

and "regular guru" Srila Prabhupada indicated that:

 

The gurus he would name would have no authority outside of ISKCON and within

ISKCON they would officiate in the matter of initiations. They would not be,

in any way, Acharyas either for the ISKCON institution or for their own

institutions.

 

They were to be gurus on his order only. As long as they strictly followed

they could act as gurus, but they had no certification as inherently

qualified (as the nitya siddha devotee).

 

They were to act as "regular" or customary gurus, giving siksa in parampara

from Srila Prabhupada and initiating devotees according to pancaratriki

viddhi.

 

Since their functions are meaningful only within the context of ISKCON, it

is important to understand that ISKCON provides a holistic system of

continuing the transmission of divine knowledge as well as maintaining the

line of pancaratriki initiations.

 

The most essential and prominent is the transmission of divine knowledge

which is the real function of parampara. Within ISKCON the primary source of

this transmission of knowledge is the Founder-Acharya, Srila Prabhupada

himself.

 

In addition his disciples and grand-disciples function as siksa gurus in

different capacities. The diksa guru, along with initiating the disciple

with mantra according to pancaratriki, takes personal responsibility for

guiding the disciple in following Srila Prabhupada.

 

As members of Srila Prabhupada's ISKCON, all devotees should see themselves

first as disciples of Srila Prabhupada, the Founder-acharya and secondarily

as disciples of their individual initiating guru as well as any siksa gurus

they may accept within ISKCON."

 

Further discussion centered on the direct relationship Srila Prabhupada has

with grand-disciples. A pictorial representation was drawn as follows:

 

 

 

Day 2 - December 9th, 1998

 

Present:

H.H. Bhakti Swarupa Damodhara Swami, H.H. Bhaktividya Purna Swami, H.H.

Giriraja Swami, H.H. Gopal Krishna Goswami, H.H. Lokanath Swami, H.H.

Radhanatha Swami, H.H. Veda Vyasa Priya Swami (sec. ), H.G. Adridharana

Das, H.G. Bhima Das H.G. Jasomatinandana Das, H.G. Jnanagamya Das, H.G.

Madhu Pandit Das, H.G. Mahaman Das, H.G. Pancaratna Das (facilitator), H.G.

Sattvik Das

 

The second day focussed on proposals for guru reform in ISKCON. The first

issue was the question of helping make Srila Prabhupada more prominent in

the lives of all devotees.

 

The following suggestions were put forward and compiled into categories for

discussion. Discussion on these suggestions was wide ranging without clear

consensus on certain issues (note comments next to each item for which there

was clear disagreement on basic principles).

 

Common discourse

 

1. The language that the gurus use to be reviewed and modified where

applicable. For example:

Substitute "Prabhupada's mission" for "my mission", "Prabhupada's

instruction" for "my instruction", "Prabhupada's desires" for "my

desires"etc. (no consensus)

2. Promoting the concept that a grand disciple could "carry Srila Prabhupada

in his heart".

3. Legislation against a devotee interfereing with another devotee to "carry

Srila Prabhupada in his heart".

4. Clarify meaning of Founder Acharya.

5. identify the qualifications to be considered a direct or indirect

disciple of Srila Prabhupada.

6. establish correct understanding of direct and indirect disciple of Srila

Prabhupada.

 

Education

 

1. Permanent Posting in prominent place in all ISKCON temples of what is the

role of Srila Prabhupada in relationship to the disciples. What is the role

the diksa gurus play. {this could also be in the form of a handbook]

2. A course should be given on an ongoing basis explaining what is

Prabhupada's position.

3. Gurus to discuss these relationships with their disciples.

4. A training program/course for gurus be instituted.

5. Incorporate standards of minimum reading requirements for new initiates.

6. Include the reading of Prabhupada Lilamrita with reading requirements.

7. Devotees should watch Prabhupada Video.

8. Increasing awareness of Srila Prabhupada's personal instructions (his

special mission, and offering).

9. A Ministry. Someone to make sure this is being followed. Minister for

keeping the prominance of Srila Prabhupada. (no consensus)

 

General Practices

 

1. Grand disciples chanting their own guru's pranam mantra and ALSO Srila

Prabhupada's pranam mantra.

2. New Pranam Mantras to be compiled for Srila Prabhupada emphasizing his

position as Founder Acharya. (no consensus)

 

Special practices

 

1. Another special festival for Srila Prabhupada. Prabhupada was born on

Nandotsava. Devotees are up half the night for Janmastami. And

disappearence day, is during kartik.

2. There could be Vyasa puja books from each temple. The BBT could produce

books for that area. Each of the BBTs could publish a book. In England,

there was a Vyasa Puja book with offerings from Grand disciples.

 

Increased Physical presence

 

1. Establishing Srila Prabhupada Memorials

2. Establishing Srila Prabhupada Libraries

 

Current guru practises

 

1. Understand the proper format for current ISKCON guru pujas. They

vyasasan should be half the size, etc. (no consensus)

2. Daily Gurupuja: bowing down offering flowers, prayers, etc. are essential

practices when organized by the temple or when the temple may regulate

length for deep dhoup pushpa are appropriation a minimum (in one's home deep

dhoup are optional). (no consensus)

 

Day 3 - 10th December, 1998

Present:

H.H. Bhakti Swarupa Damodhara Swami, H.H. Bhaktividya Purna Swami, H.H.

Giriraja Swami, H.H. Gopal Krishna Goswami, H.H. Lokanath Swami, H.H.

Radhanatha Swami, H.H. Veda Vyasa Priya Swami (sec.), H.G. Adridharana Das,

H.G. Bhima Das, H.G. Jnanagamya Das, H.G. Madhu Pandit Das, H.G. Mahaman

Das, H.G. Pancaratna Das (facilitator), H.G. Sattvik Das

 

 

Morning Session

 

The following list was made of the elements of guru-disciple relationships.

Each of these was examined to see what the problems were, especially in

terms of keeping proper balance in the relationship between a disciple,

Srila Prabhupada and the diksa guru.

 

The emphasis in the discussion was on how to maximize the relationship with

Srila Prabhupada.

 

*Gurupuja

The principle of worshiping the Guru on a daily basis is confirmed by

sastra. The principle of how to apply or to regulate this worship is

dependent on the premise of following Srila Prabhupada and time, place and

circumstances.

 

However, in view of the already daily worship of Srila Prabhupada, it was

suggested that this might fulfill the requirement without need of separate

guru pujas for other gurus.

 

There was no consensus on this point, as it appeared to require more

research.

 

*Offerings

The system of offering bhoga was discussed without conclusion. It was noted

that the principle of worshipping the diksa guru before worshipping the

Deity is based on pancaratrika viddhi. Before photography, a disciple would

worship some article (clothing, shoes, etc.) as a visual reminder of the

diksa guru. Today a small photograph is used for this purpose.

 

*Pranam Mantras

There was consensus that all devotees should also recite pranam mantras to

Srila Prabhupada after offering pranams to their diksa guru. Many devotees

are already doing this, but this should be instituted as a clear ISKCON

standard

 

*Vyasapuja

There was a consensus that the Vyasa Puja for current ISKCON diksa gurus

should be significantly less elaborate than Srila Prabhupada's Vyasa Puja.

 

There were significant concerns expressed regarding Vyasa Puja books and the

consensus was that the books should be simple and should not be a source of

unhealthy competition between disciples. It is also important for gurus to

instruct their disciples on the principles of glorifying the guru

appropriate to the guru's spiritual standing.

 

*Paraphernalia, i.e.: badges, t-shirts, caps, etc.

There was a general consensus to prohibit disciples of ISKCON diksa gurus

from producing and wearing or displaying all sorts of "guru" paraphernalia

including badges, t-shirts, beadbags, etc. The current practices were seen

as significant disturbances to the unity of ISKCON devotees as they tend to

contribute to unhealthy factionalism.

 

*Other

The following additional elements of guru-disciple practice were discussed

without significant consensus:

· Titles and forms of address

· Submissive inquiry

· Service/accepting that service

· Daksina (money)

· Lifestyle

· Managerial responsibility

· Travel

 

*Principles

As a basic principle the majority concluded that, since a spiritual master

is following the order of his Spiritual Master or Founder acharya Srila

Prabhupada "to co-operate and serve in ISKCON under a GBC", his position as

a diksa guru is not compromised if he accepts restrictions on the

relationship with disciples.

 

All essential aspects of guru-disciple relationships should be adhered to

but the quality and manner in which they are observed may be regulated by

the GBC, being careful to maintain instructions of sadhu, sastra and guru.

The guru, out of obedience to Srila Prabhupada and his own humility

cooperates with these standards.

 

Afternoon Session

 

Jayapataka Maharaja made a presentation including many references from Srila

Prabhupada's recorded works to illustrate that when Prabhupada writes

"request", it is a synonym for "order", therefore Srila Prabhupada gave the

"order" to be a Diksa Guru to his disciples.

 

The discussion then moved to attempt to agree on at least a few proposals

from the previous sessions. The following were unanimous:

 

1. A Prabhupada Festival of approximately 2 or 3 days be organized in each

individual ISKCON Center. The timing of the festival could be at the

convenience of the individual centers.

2. A program for education of new devotees before initiation regarding Srila

Prabhupada's prominent position as founder acharya and ISKCON's philosophy

regarding Guru tattva be developed.

 

The discussion then went to discussing a peaceful way forward including the

two camps - ritvik and anti-ritvik. The following proposal was drafted:

 

The ritvik adherents, on their side, agreed:

 

1. No active preaching of ritvik and distribution of TFO or exposure of the

issue in the media.

2. No open public meetings on the subject.

3. No proselytizing of post samadhi ritvik or distribution of TFO to general

devotee community unless there is an "emergency" of the nature of that

devotee getting ready to leave ISKCON. (This was not fully agreed - some

devotees felt they would also present their ideas and beliefs to anyone whom

they felt would be "helped" spiritually by their presentation.)

 

The GBC side agreed to propose to the EC to:

 

1. Endeavor to remove confusion on the guru issue by working on a GBC paper

to replace Guru In ISKCON (GII). The ritvik adherents will have an

opportunity to review the draft and make suggestions prior to GBC meetings.

(If possible, have a draft ready by mid-January)

2. Arrange to have a group meet with the ritvik adherents on an official

level to come to a conclusion.

3. Propose to the GBC body that the Ritvik side should be heard by the GBC

(possibly in a plenary session).

4. Ritvik supporters will not be demonized for their rights and opinions if

kept to themselves.

5. No one will be threatened or expelled for believing the ritvik concept as

long as they observe the above guidelines.

 

 

Appendix 1

Issues from brainstorming session on day one:

History (Understanding the May 28th conversation, etc.)

 

1. History: Is there a procedure for the guru system that is presently in

vogue in ISKCON?

2. How do we understand the May 28th conversation in relation to Guru, sadhu

and sastra and within itself?

3. Did Srila Prabhupada intend ISKCON to continue to work according to the

principles of Guru, sadhu, and sastra that he gave throughout his manifest

presence?

4. What was the "selection of the 11 Ritviks"?

5. Srila Prabhupada warning against appointment of 'Acharyas' and cause of

the failure of the Gaudiya Math.

 

Srila Prabhupada's position

 

1. Establishing Srila Prabhupada's Founder Acharya relationship with

ISKCON's members and fortifying it while establishing/maintaining the

parampara system as regular guru for the next 10,000 years.

2. How do we understand Srila Prabhupada's position as founder acharya?

 

Philosophical definitions

 

1. Meaning of Srila Prabhupada as Founder Acharya.

2. Meaning of Diksa Guru

3. Meaning of Siksa Guru

4. Meaning of Regular Guru

5. Meaning of Ritvik Guru

6. Does 'Teacher' define all of the following:

Guru, Acharya, Regular Guru, diksa Guru, Siksa Guru, Spiritual Master,

Preceptor, Rabbi, ritvik?

7. Definition of Absolute

8. What are the qualifications of disciple?

9. Emphasis and importance between Diksa and Siksa.

10. Difference between Guru and Acharya. Does Teacher define both?

11. Decision between officiating acharya and regular guru.

12. Meaning of the word acharya vis a vis full fledge Guru.

13. The word Acharya in connection with our movement, as well as with the

individual.

 

Understanding Parampara

 

1. Do the present become link to Guru parampara as they do not appear in the

list?

2. Parampara in ISKCON and Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition.

3. Maintaining relation with Krishna - Lord Chaitanya, previous Acharyas

and.. as their representative, mainly ISKCON in Brahma Madhva Gaudiya

Sampradaya.

4. Continuation of Guru Parampara.

5. Understand Guru Position (Uttama or Madhyam) and educate disciples of

that position.

6. Can a devotee who is supposed to be in our sampradaya fall down?

7. Can there be fallible guru? What is the evidence?

8. Is it necessary to have a living guru? What is the evidence?

 

Unity in Diversity

 

1. Ritvik philosophy is distracting the real Guru reform and causing

division. How to eliminate the disease to have a healthy body?

2. Can Ritvik Philosophy actually unite ISKCON?

3. Meaning of love and trust, Co-operation among devotees in general.

4. Other institutions taking advantage of our disunity.

5. How to motivate and practice unity in diversity?

6. Lack of humility at all levels among ISKCON devotees.

7. Having unity in diversity - same principles - slightly different

application according to time, place, circumstances and needs.

8. Anger and taking help of media.

9. Cultivating better sadhana, humility, purity, and study of Shasta.

 

Application

 

1. Should Guru also be a manager or not?

2. GBC Gurus, giving caring, visionary leadership roles over hands on

management roles.

3. How to clarify the balance of authority for one who is senior both as GBC

and Guru?

4. What could be the effects of imposing too little or too much control over

ISKCON leaders?

5. What is a proper 'profile' of a guru representative of the great

disciplic succession?

6. How to institute policies to practically simplify the profile and lives

of our gurus?

7. Is re-initiation necessary for disciples of fallen gurus or encourage

them to 'take shelter of Srila Prabhupada'.

8. ISKCON's need of Siksa Gurus. Implementation.

9. How to avoid Guru fall downs. How to maintain faith in spite of fall

downs.

10. Accounting for Daksina

11. To establish along with Diksa Guru role the Siksa Guru role in ISKCON.

All devotees should feel protected spiritually in a well integrated Krishna

conscious family of ISKCON.

12. Preserving the philosophy, tradition and culture of Guru institution:

The role of the GBC body in doing this.