No EVIDENCE

[Guest guest]

> Dear Sthita-dhi-muni Prabhu, Please accept my humble obeisances. All

> Glories to Srila Prabhupada.

>

> > > we are discussing the length of time acaryas can remain current, and

> > > that

> > can be even millions of years.

> > Sure, like Lord Brahma, Narada Muni and Vyasadeva. They don't have the

> > same physical limitations as experienced in human life.

>

> Then you accept that it is not against sastra for a current link to remain

> current for long periods. At least that is a baby step in the right

> direction.

 

Sithita-dhi Prabhu was trying to say that the above mentioned Mahajans have

an extremely long duration of life. Not that they continue to give diksha

in their absence.

 

Why is this simple truth being rejected? And how can we change English

usage & grammar to support a theory? Hence the "ritvik system of

initiation" is rejected!

 

> > Beyond that, a

> > siksa relationship is not bound by physical presence.

>

> Why do you think only siksa relationship is not bound?

 

Because the import of shastras is such. That "shiksha" means "smaranam" of

the instructions after the disappearance of an acharya. Not that the

acharya continues to personally give shiksha on the physical plane.

Although he inspires the disciple when the disciple remembers his teachings.

 

 

> You are just making it up as you go along.

 

How is that? Who is making up what?

 

> On the absolute platform there is no difference

> between siksa and diksa, both entail transmission of knowledge which does

> not require physical presence. Do I really need to post all those quotes

> saying how physical presence is not important within guru disciple

> relationships, surely not a fifth time?

 

Because diksha is a physical activity. It is through our senses that we

receive diksha and in the presence of the guru we hear both the Holy name of

Lord Vishnu and the gayatri mantra from him. That SP used tape recorders,

etc., to facilitate that during his presence is not a violation of the

system. It was an adjustment, but he was still present with us to monitor

the situation, which he is not know & hence his arrangement to transfer the

power of management to the GBC.

 

Otherwise he would have mandated that he would also continue to take the

final decisions on all matters pertaining to ISKCON... according to this "on

the absolute platorm there is no difference" contoction that we are being

fed.

 

And by that logic he should now appear and settle the dispute that has

arisen in this regard, no?

 

> > > Physical presence of

> > > guru is seperate issue, that we have proven is irrelevant to

> > > transmission of

> > knowledge which is definition of diksa.

> >

> > Proven to yourself, maybe.

>

> Oh dear, looks like we do. I have put in a few extra ones too.

>

> Physical presence is immaterial. Presence of the transcendental sound

> received from the Spiritual Master should be the guidance of life. That

> will make our spiritual life successful. If you feel very strongly about

> my absence you may place my pictures on my sitting places and this will be

> source of inspiration for you.

> (Letter to Brahmananda and other students, 19/1/67)

 

Kindly note; "source of inspiration for you".

 

> But always remember that I am always with you. As you are always thinking

> of me, I am always thinking of you also. Although physically we are not

> together, we are not separated spiritually. So we should be concerned only

> with this spiritual connection.

> (Letter to Gaurasundara, 13/11/69)

 

This clearly proves that Prabhupada differentiated between the physical &

the spiritual. The spiritual is eternal, but the physical plane does exist

separately, albeit temporarily.

 

And it is on that plane that "Diksha" is a function that connects a

"candidate" for "sadhana" to the "guru parampara" that is teaching the

eternal truths of the vedic literatures.

 

Not that the "diksha" activity is something indulged in on another plane.

 

> So we should associate by vibration, and not by the physical presence.

> That is real association.

> (Lectures SB, 68/08/18)

 

Which means the instructions of the vedas should be imbibed by

"pariprashnena sevaya" & "sravanam, kirtanam vishnuhu...". This is where

diksha is the starting point.

 

And there are many wonderful quotes presented in your letter... with no

relation to the question of "diksha" whatsoever! The quotations from Srila

Prabhupada about the pancharatrika system of initiation have been ignored in

their entirety.

 

Which brings us to a comparison with the mayavadi philosophers; they ignore

the many "veda vakyas" that are known as "bheda vakyas" whilst stressing all

along the "abheda vakyas" only. Therefore, although they are indeed

transcendentalists, they cannot understand the absolute truth, due to their

stubbornness.

 

Which seems to be the fate of the proponets of the concocted "ritivik system

of initiation". Too bad. What can be done? Nothing, obviously.

 

Continue to ignore SP's statements on the process of initiation according

the the pancharatra and vaishnava tradition... who can stop you?

 

dasanudas,

 

Basu Ghosh Das