Panchangas

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> Dear Basu Ghosh Prabhu, PAMHO. AGTSP!

>

> > > The holy name is not simply a part of some Vedic or Pancaratrik

> > > process. It is the essence of them all. All of them depend on the holy

> > > name to give their results, while the holy name gives its results

> > > without the help of any of them.

>

> > It may be what you say about the Holy name...

> >

> > Yet I stick to my point about the word "nama" in the pertinent verse

> > that you have so kindly supplied above.

> >

> > The "pramana" is that the guru chants on the beads of the disciple at

> > the time of initiation. And handing him the beads is the action of

> > "transmitting" the Holy name to the disciple from the guru. Isn't that

> > obvious enough?

>

> Not to this dull-brained fool. It will take some time to find the sastra

> pramana to the contrary, but I will work on it. Certainly the holy name

> must be transmitted through sound vibration, not by handing over beads. It

> is described that the holy name is like water and the 64 angas of bhakti

> described in Bhakti Rasamrta Sindhu are like waves on that water. There is

> no question of waves without water, so there is no question of bhakti

> without the holy name. Approaching a spiritual master and taking

> initiation are angas of bhakti and are dependent on the holy name, but the

> holy name will act without beads or even without a guru, although where

> necessary it will supply a guru!

 

Still, the formal process of diksha, which you have accepted in other texts,

includes receiving the holy name from the guru - which is commonly known in

India as the "guru mantra". That formal "bestowal" of the Holy name from

the guru to the disciple takes place during the diksha "ceremony" or

"samskara" when the guru chants on the beads of the disciple & gives him the

Holy name "officially". SP & SBSST accepted this method & as they are our

acharyas, we too have been instructed to follow accordingly.

 

> > And there are many instances where a guru DOES NOT change the name of

> > the disciple. One example that comes to mind is that of "Abhay Charan

> > Das". Wherein only the appendage "das" was "added" or "given".

>

> This is also a new name.

 

Hmmm. That's debatable. My understanding is that the real importance thing

is the acceptance as one's position here as "das"; or servant of Krishna or

of one of Krishna's devotees, which is this appendange indicates.

 

If one's name is already "devotional", according to vedic culture, then the

name indeed is not changed! Only the appendage is given!

 

> > This is how I understand this 1st anga of panchanga diksha. Hope you

> > see the logic; from the tradition. Which is another meaning of the word

> > "paramparaa".

>

> (3rd anga). I have no problem with accepting tradition and logic. They are

> also pramana of sorts.

 

Glad you accept that; tradition is indeed "pramana"; therefore the "ritvik"

"system" of initiation simply is "conspicuous by it's absence"!

 

> But I will have to find the sastra pramana.

 

If you could read the pancharatra, I'm sure you would find it! Hope the

logic supplied above will help you to understand that "nama" is indeed the

conferrence of the Holy name to the disciple by the diksha guru. It's

really simple; but... what more can I say/write?

 

> Too bad

> we don't have a folio of the collected writings of Bhaktivinode Thakur!

 

> Your servant, Bhaktarupa Das

 

Actually there ought to be a "Gaudiya Archives", as mooted sometime ago to

me by Ranjit Prabhu of the Bhaktivedanta Archives. The problems are

several; funding is the most obvious. And who will undertake the job? It's

a vast engagement!