Rtviks are haunted by TFO

[Guest guest]

Dear GBC followers. Please accept my humble obeisances. All Glories to

Srila Prabhupada.

 

The Rtvikvadis are so bold that a sincere vaisnava must show their bad

intentions.

 

> > > "From the absolute perspective physical contact is not

> > > required, we need only to "follow the process" to get back to Godhead.

> > > Diksa initiation formalises our connection with the parampara. But

> > > that formality alone will not get us back to

> > > Godhead. Only by following the process of chanting Hare

> > > Krishna offenselessly will one get back to Godhead."

> > > (His Grace Ajamila Dasa Adhikari, 22/5/99, Text COM:2336806)

 

 

> > I stand by my words again derived from Srila Prabhupada's books. Again,

> > not even a hint of ritvikism there. Formalising one's link with the

> > parampara is a must, but that alone cannot get one back to Godhead. This

> > is what any "philosophicaly healthy" Vaisnava would have understood from

> > my text.

 

 

 

> It is interesting to note that you have not actually been able to ANSWER

> any of the points - only respond with your usual insults ('I am dreaming'

> etc.).

 

The Rtviks are dreaming! Since the speculations can be called only a dream-

a nonreality.

So this is not an insult. The straightforwardness is not a offensive

attitude.

 

> And that is not surprising since even in the one and only line here

> that you have made an attempt to actually deal with the CONTENT of what

> you said you contradict yourself.

 

Maybe you are just trying to find a contradiction, since otherwise you can

not defeat Ajamila Prabhu.

 

> You said:

>

> "From the absolute perspective physical contact is not required, we need

> only to "follow the process" to get back to Godhead."

 

Yes we need to follow only to follow the process. Since the transendental

process has to be performed also with knowledge and certain rules, a living

guru is neccessary to teach and guide one. The perfect liberated souls a'la

Rsabhadeva certainly show that the transendental process is self potent. And

Haridas Thakur is showing that the chanting is self-potent. But we should

not and cannot imitate them.

 

> Then you said:

>

> "Formalising one's link with the parampara is a must, but that alone

> cannot get one back to Godhead."

 

> How can something simultaneously be both 'not required' and 'a must'?

 

It is very clear. All the statments of Ajamila Prabhu are very clear.

This connection to the parampara trough a living guru called diksa is giving

one the facilities to advance like the nama, pancaratrika mantras and brahma

gayatri.

On the principe the process is enough, but to be qualified to perform the

process one needs mercy in the form of this formalization. The process is

potent, but are we able to absorb this potency? One therefore accepts a living

diksa guru who is empowering one to perform the devotional service, and is

leading him.

Sorry, but again the Rtvikvadis are juggling with the words to somehow

establish your diviant ideas.

I think thbe Rtvikvadis read this statements at least for hundered times from

more senior devotees, but since you are again and again writting same things

you have to be again and again refuted, otherwise you MR. De(mon)sai-anugas

immediately think that you are winning. Since you are forgetting the previous

defeats.

 

> You have definitely trapped yourself here just as the GBC have with these

> resolutions.

 

The GBC resolutions are following the sastras! What the Rtvikvadis follow?

Ajamila Prabhu is speaking the transcendental knowledge, sorry but how the

Rtvikvadis can not understand simple things? They are too much into the word

jugglery that they cannot see the direct meaning.

 

> And don't forget, you will be forever trapped, and stuck in

> the ritvik camp, since you have also just said "I stand by my words again

> derived from Srila Prabhupada's books" Since you have said that these

> statements are derived from Srila Prabhupada's books, they are obviously

> applicable to all the followers of ISKCON for the next 10,000 years, since

> they come from the 'lawbooks'.

 

Ajamila as forever in the Rtvik camp. Maybe this can be awarded as the best

joke next year. You forgot already his smashings.

 

Off course Srila Prabhupada's books are the Lawbooks, but you are

contraditing yourself here. The Krsnakant-anugas are saying that the books are

lawbooks but stil you are accepting the speculative TFO as filter spectacle for

understanding the teachings of Srila Prabhupada. So what actually is TFO the

super apauruseya sastra surpassing everthing revealed by the Lord Himself.

 

Somehow Rtvik system is not mentioned in Srila Prabhupada's books and

nowhere, I don't want to quote you again as you confesed that there is no

mentioning of it in the scriptures. So your authority, namely the TFO

proves itself invalid as authority ( or to be a filter) to judge over Srila

Prabhupada's teachings as he taught them. The Rtvikvadis are putting a book of

Mr. De(mon)sai as more valid than Srila Prabhupada's books, since you are

quoting everything through the filter of TFO. We can quote from anywhere in

the sastras and you will see that they are not contradicting SP teachings.

Lawbooks means you don't speculate on it, and they are supported by other

sastras.

 

> > Are you not Kali's disciple? Nay, sorry for the offense.

> > Disciple of his disciple, Desai.

 

> I see the pressure of this paper has obviously got to you, since you have

> already backed down from stating that I am disciple of kali, and

> downgraded it to being someone else's disciple. With more pressure, your

> downgrading may continue, and I may end up again as a devotee!

 

This statement was made by Srila Prabhupada, so don't blame the truthful

words of Ajamila Pr. He is only repeating what Srila Prabhupada said:

 

Srila Prabhupada:"A disciple of Kali cannot become an acarya by the decision

of some high court. Mundane votes have no jurisdiction to elect a Vainava

acarya. A Vaisnava acarya is self-effulgent, and there is no need for any

court judgment. A false acarya may try to override a Vaisnava by a

high-court decision, but Bhaktivinoda Thakura says that he is nothing but a

disciple of Kali-yuga." (CC Madhya 1.220 purport)

 

Your actions are those of a disciple of Kali. Sorry but this is the truth.

I think that GBC and all the devotees are just waiting for that that you

again end up as a sincere Prabhupada-anuga and you reject this Rtvik

illusion.

 

> You are going to have to face up to the fact that these statements of

> yours are going to haunt you for years to come.

> By saying that:

>

> 1) Physical contact is NOT required;

> 2) and Srila Prabhupada gives us all the divya jnana for the next 10,000

> years;

 

This is what the Rtviks are doing all the time, taking parts of statements

without considering the full text. Then they speculate it is talking about

Rtviks. It is a idee-fix par exellence. They simply cannot see anything

beyond the Rtvikvada.

 

> YOU are responsible for having given everyone a perfect RECIPE for

> accepting ritvik, and rejecting the current guru system.

 

Please read the whole text again. Please again read through all the text of

GBC followers.

 

> If Srila Prabhuada alone is giving us everything, and 'physical contact is

> NOT required', then obviously there is no absolute requirement for the > >

current gurus in ISKCON, and the ritviks are right since Srila Prabhupada >

alone can take us back to godhead, since he gives us all the divya-jnana >

we need.

 

The divya jnana as mantra and knowledge is received through the living

disciplic succession since time immemorial. And the initiation requires a

living person, or one can take diksa from "a Sony-cassette-player Rtvik

Acarya" by hearing the tape of Srila Prabhupada chanting gayatri?

Does this cassette player not have the right to be the Rtivik Acarya, since

1. He is transmitting Srila Prabhupada's divya jnanam

2. He is not a living present guru

3. He doesn't consider himself to be the diksa guru

 

Only thing he was not been appointed by Srila Prabhupada as an Rtvik-Acarya in

the july 9th letter and is not listed in the TFO, but since some Rtvik Acarya's

are not available he can maybe replace one.

 

> Thank you very much Ajamila prabhu. We will be presenting these two

> statements from you as our tools to convince everyone. Just these two

> statements from you are enough to convince anyone of the case for ritvik.

> Yes you are potent - though not in the way you thought! Ajamila prabhu ki

> jai!

> And they have picked YOU for the debate. That will be great - but how can

> it be a 'debate' when you already agree with us!

> It will interesting to note if you can respond to these points with

> anymore that the usual insults of 'nonsense, concoction, dreaming' etc.,

> and whether or not you can actually answer these points head on.

 

Please be ready for your demolition. Ajamila Prabhu already pointed out your

speculations. Please read again the whole text and all the refutations you

could not properly answer. Maybe instead of big words the Rtviks should

answer this refutations first.

Your jokes won't help.

 

YHS

Damana Krsna das Br.