'By reading daily the knowledge will be revealed to you' - SP

[Guest guest]

Dear Nitia Candra prabhu, Please accept my humble obeisances. All Glories to

Srila Prabhupada.

 

Thank you for your questions. Unfortunately your questions make sense only

if you ASSUME at the outset that we are wrong.

 

Get rid of this assumption, and you will see how you already have the

answers - for the answers would not be much different to what YOU would have

said had WE asked the same questions to YOU.

 

> 1 - Why don't you just leave us alone and start your own society.Leave us

> alone ( in what you consider is our ignorance ).And we will leave you

> alone.I really wish you all the best.

 

Would YOU do this? Why not? Why should we? It all boils down to who is

right. IF you were right, then your question makes sense. But IF we are

right, the question makes no sense. For why should WE leave Srila

Prabhupada's society, when we are trying to execute Srila Prabhupada's will.

 

This answer is applicable generally to your other 2 questions as well.

 

> 2 - Don't you think there's something wrong with trying to force ( by

> court action ) thousands of persons against their will to accept something

> they clearly do not want to.Everyone is free to believe in what they like.

 

This again makes no sense. Yes everyone IS free to believe what they want -

but NOT in ISKCON. Are you advocating that in ISKCON we can freely believe

that Krishna is a mythology, and that worshipping Sai Baba will take us back

to godhead? Of course not. So again - the issue is - WHAT did Srila

Prabhupada order for ISKCON. If he ordered what we have now, then, we are

doing the correct thing, If he did not, then it must be stopped in ISKCON,

and people can take their own beliefs outside of ISKCON.

 

We already force so many thousands of people of things against their

will. So many people for instance would like to make Narayana Maharaja the

acarya for ISKCON - and these are 'senior devotees'. But we don't allow

that. So many people would like to continue worshipping HH Jayapataka

Maharaja in the temple with daily guru puja everyday. So many people can not

believe in ritvik ETC. ETC. So in ISKCON we already have rules and

regulations, and do NOT allow everyone to excercise their 'free will'.

 

ISKCON is meant for excercising Srila Prabhupada's will not ours. We may

want to do all sorts of nonsense. But if it is not sanctioned by Srila

Prabhupada, it must be done outside of ISKCON.

 

So we are back again to the key question - what did Srila Prabhupada

sanction?

 

If one believes that they are correct, then they will do everything to

protect ISKCON, just as the GBC have never been shy to use the courts when

it suited them.

 

Ys, Adri & Madhu

[Guest guest]

>

>Thank you for your questions.

 

You're welcome.

 

Unfortunately your questions make sense only

>if you ASSUME at the outset that we are wrong.

 

Yes that's a decent point.

 

>Get rid of this assumption, and you will see how you already have the

>answers - for the answers would not be much different to what YOU would

>have

>said had WE asked the same questions to YOU.

>

>This answer is applicable generally to your other 2 questions as well.

>

> > 2 - Don't you think there's something wrong with trying to force ( by

> > court action ) thousands of persons against their will to accept

>something

> > they clearly do not want to.Everyone is free to believe in what they

>like.

>

>This again makes no sense. Yes everyone IS free to believe what they want -

>but NOT in ISKCON.

 

True but everyone IS free to believe in what they wish.To take initiation

from anyone inside or outside ISKCON to believe in ritvik

philosophy.Whatever.Eat meat,leave devotee association and again do

nonsense.Their choice.They have to pay the ticket.

And as a body of persons we have decided to do this,continue with the

present form of initiation.Do you honestly think you can stop us?

Even Prabhupada knew he couldn't stop Siddhasvarupananda from leaving.He

tried to get him back but he saw the writing on the wall.So he did the

inteligent thing.That person is still doing his own thing and we have never

interfered.Why?Because we have FAR MORE IMPORTANT AND PRODUCTIVE THINGS TO

DO THAN WASTE OUR TIME TRYING TO RAM DOWN 10,000 PEOPLE'S THROAT SOMETHING

THEY DO NOT WANT.We do not care what you say,we do not want your ideas and

we will NEVER accept them.We do not try to force you to accept our line of

thinking.Please do us the same courtesy.I would never dream of trying to

convince hard-core believers of whatever tradition that what they were into

was flawed.As soon as there was some opposition I would see any further

efforts would be counter productive.Can't you see this?Don't you have better

things to do?

 

If you are such staunch followewrs of Shrila Prabhupada then take a page out

if his book and how he himself dealt with what he considered to be a

deviated Gaudiya Math ( his own Guru's institution no less - just as ISKCON

is supposed to be Prabhupada's institution ).He tried to gain their

cooperation but quickly realised they'd never be up to it and simply left

them to their own devices.And because Krishna was with him he had all

success.He didn't need the recourses of the Gaudiya Math because Krishna

gave the sincere soul all he needed.This is inteligence and SO MUCH MORE

GRACIOUS AND GENTLEMANLY AND NOBLE.

 

Again I ask you if you are so sure that we are in maya and that you have the

blessings of Shrila Prabhupada and that you are the true ISKCON then DO

IT.Make ISKCON as you feel it should be ( and surely you will have all

success with the pure devotee's blessings ).But leave us out of it,we're

never going to be interesred.And what use are we to you anyway??

According to you we are already not ISKCON.We are all misguided.And I can

assure you TOTALLY UNREDEEMABLE.I would therefore like to ask you what do

you hope to achieve by bringing this to court?Even if you do win what will

be the next step?You will have the decision of the judge only which none of

us will EVER take seriously.Rather I would propose that it will make us even

more adamantly opposed to you and you will have letters flooding in from all

over the world and from local respected scholars and sampradaya heads

disagreeing with you and denouncing the court ruling as religious

persecution.I would really be interested to know what are your plans after

the court case.

And you can do this only in India.What significant difference will it

make?And are you going to police all the initiation ceremonies?And if you

could what would stop an infromal initiation where a guru just gives a

disciple some beads inside a room and says " Now your name is such and such

das ".For God's sake get real will you.You can NEVER stop an idea,a

belief.History has taught us that.And you won't stop even ONE future

initiation.

 

 

>We already force so many thousands of people of things against their

>will.

 

No we don't.If thery don't like it they can go.If they don't like the rules

they can go.If they don't like the decision of the leaders and law-makwers

of our society they can go anytime.There is NEVER a question of force.And

you too are free to go if you don't like the rules of ur society just as I

am free to go if I don't like the rules of the Jehova's witnesses.

 

So many people for instance would like to make Narayana Maharaja the

>acarya for ISKCON - and these are 'senior devotees'. But we don't allow

>that.So many people can not

>believe in ritvik ETC.

 

Yes they can.But they can't do it in our society.They can go make their own

society and preach devotion to the man in the moon for all I care.

 

ETC. So in ISKCON we already have rules and

>regulations, and do NOT allow everyone to excercise their 'free will'.

 

What do you mean?Free will is there to accept or not.If they don't like and

it disturbs them so much who is forcing them.They can live outside and do

their own thing as many already do.Or become less involved and less under

the authority of the structured society.

 

>If one believes that they are correct, then they will do everything to

>protect ISKCON,

 

Not everything.For example if there are disagreements in a marrige or within

collection of states they simply separate.And if the other party is

civilized they will let them separate and this is ISKCON's position.If you

don't agree with us you are free to do whatever.But please stop your

philosohical imperialism.

 

just as the GBC have never been shy to use the courts when

>it suited them.

 

They never used the courts to try and convince 10,000 people plus on some

philoshical point.This is the height of folly and haughtiness.People are not

convinced by court decisions but by their own conviction.If your well

thought out arguments didn't do the trick

how do you ever hope that this will achieve anything except the animosity of

thousands of devotees.Honestly again I suggest that you lead by

example.Start your own centres and show us how nice the ritvik system is.How

there are less problems with it and how everyone is so much more happy.That

would be FAR more convincing than any court injunction or decision.Think

about this please.YOu really want the world to know how wonderful is

ritvik-vada and what a revelation it is.Just show us.

This is your real mission.This is what you really have to do.All else is

negative,fighting,court battles.Put your money where your mouth is and just

DO IT.Prove to all the world how you are right and this entire society is

wrong.

 

I CHALLENGE YOU TO DO THIS.SHOW US THE DYNAMICS OF THE RITVIK SYSTEM IN

ACTION AND CREATE A HUGE PREACHING MACHINE AND SPREAD THE MISSION OF LORD

CAITANYA FAR AND WIDE AND THEN MAYBE WE SHALL CHANGE OUR MINDS.Or are you

afraid to do this.You should have no fear for the Lord is with thee and His

pure devotee too.I say unto you go boldly and do His work and astonish us

all.CAN YOU DO IT ?LET US SEE.

I suspect,however,that you will offer some excuse why you can't do this,at

least not right now,and that your priority must the the court case.

Wharever.

 

Hoping this meets you all in the best of health.Really looking forward to

your reply to my points,

 

sincerely yours

 

Nitaicandra das.

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Nitai Chandra prabhu,Please accept my humble obeisances. All Glories to

Srila Prabhupada.

 

Thank you for your reply. I am afraid you are again missing the point. IF we

are rigth why should WE leave. Those who are practising the unauthorised

system that is against Srila Prabhupada's orders should leave his society.

This argument that we should hand over Srila Prabhupada's system to those

who are in maya is absurd. Maya should be kicked out - whether it is coming

from us or others. But that is the key. Not whch side has the most numbers.

 

Also the fact that many people in ISKCON may not agree with Srila

Prabhuada's final order, and do not want to accept him as the guru, but some

other individual, is not reason to NOT implement Srila Prabhupada's order.

Srila Prabhupada's wishes are not determined or prevented by, the force of

vox populi.

 

Also we are not trying to 'force' anyone. People can do what they wish. But

they should do it outsude ISKCON. Just like you cannot 'force' anyone to NOT

take initiation from Narayana Maharaja, but you can say that it should be

done outside ISKCON.

 

So the issue is to implement Srila Prabhupada's orders in ISKCON. IF we are

presenting those orders correctly, then they should be implemented. Wouldn't

you agree?

 

And that is the issue - what were Srila Prabhupada's desires. There is a

debate going on in CHAKRA right now to try and determine that.

 

Ys, Adri