no doubt diksa-guru must be living -more quotes

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Dear respected Prabhus,

All glories to the GBC. All glories to Prtabhupada-anugas. All glories to

Srila Prabhupada.

Here are more quotes that show that a guru should not be a posthumous or an

interplanetary (nonpresent) one.

1.

Prabhupada's Lectures General - 1969

Indian lady: How does one contact the spiritual master? Through a book can

you contact the spiritual master?

Prabhupada: No, you have to associate.

Syamasundara: "Can you associate through a book?" she asked.

Prabhupada: Yes, through books, and also personal. Because when you make a

spiritual master you have got personal touch. Not that in air you make a

spiritual master. You make a spiritual master concrete. So as soon as you

make a spiritual master, you should be inquisitive.

COMMENT: This means that you have to associate with the guru in the vapuh

form and not only in vani form. You can only associate with an posthumous

guru in the vani form, so the criteria of vapuh can not be

 

 

2.

Madhya-lila: Chapter Twenty-five, Text 122

 

TEXT 122

 

sarva-desa-kala-dasaya janera kartavya

guru-pase sei bhakti prastavya, srotavya

 

TRANSLATION

 

" `It is therefore the duty of every man--in every country, in every

circumstance and at all times--to approach the bona fide spiritual master,

question him about devotional service and listen to him explain the process.

 

COMMENT: How one can question a posthumus guru or one physically on a

different planet, and still listen to him explaining the process, he should

rather sit before one, or this can be done through the phone also. (NO ONE

HAS PHONE CONNECTION TO OTHER PLANETS OR WITH SRILA PRABHUPADA, so how to

same time question and listen objectively or nonsubjectively?)

 

 

 

3.

Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 2: Chapter Seven, Text 46

PURPORT

 

The answer to such questions or inquiries is given herein very properly.

Personality of Godhead may not be present before one's eyes, but if one is

sincere in wanting such guidance the Lord will send a bona fide person who

can guide one properly back home, back to Godhead. There is no need of

material qualifications for making progress on the path of spiritual

realization.

 

COMMENT: Since both the Supersoul and the guide are invisible to the

devotee's physical sense perception, what is the point of the Lord sending

posthumous representative one still doesn't have before ones eyes. How much

help the devotee will get. If the books of Srila Prabhupada are enough there

is no need for the Lord to send a bona fide person to guide one, someone who

is a representative of the Supersoul.

 

 

 

4.

Bhagavad-gita As It Is: Chapter Eleven, Text 54

One cannot understand Krsna by mental speculation. For one who does not take

personal training under the guidance of a bona fide spiritual master, it is

impossible to even begin to understand Krsna. The word tu is specifically

used here to indicate that no other process can be used, can be recommended,

or can be successful in understanding Krsna.

 

COMMENT: How a posthumous guru can give the "personal training" to the

disciple. Training according to Random House dictionary means, "to develop

or form the habits, thoughts, or behavior of (a child or other person) by

discipline and instruction." This means that one requires a living,

nonposthumous guru to train the disciple. See that "no other process can be

used, can be recommended, or can be successful in understanding Krsna."

 

 

 

 

5.

Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 7: Chapter Seven, Text 21

The Vedas enjoin, tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet: to understand

spiritual knowledge, one must approach a bona fide spiritual master. Unless

one has been trained in geology, one cannot detect gold in stone. Similarly,

unless one has been trained by a spiritual master, he cannot understand what

is spirit and what is matter.....

..... One who has not been trained cannot distinguish between gold and stone.

Similarly, fools and rascals who have not learned from an expert spiritual

master what is soul and what is matter cannot understand the existence of

the soul within the body. To understand such knowledge, one must be trained

in the mystic yoga system, or, finally, in the bhakti-yoga system.

 

COMMENT: The guru is training the disciple, how to see one as the spiritual

soul. We may accept that Srila Prabhupada gives the knowledge. But since the

training is also required one gets this practical knowledge only through the

living guru. So the living diksa gurus in the line of Srila Prabhupada can

give both knowledge and training.

Did Madhu Pandit Pr. forget how he was carefully trained up by his diksa

guru Jayapataka Maharaja. How much training did you directly got from Srila

Prabhupada as now you are claiming to be A PRABHUPADA disciple. And even you

don't see offending your guru and the real Prabhupada's disciples as

something bad!

 

 

6.

Adi-lila: Chapter One, Text 56

 

Those who are serious about the knowledge of the transcendental world,

which is far beyond the material cosmic creation, must approach a bona fide

spiritual master to learn the science both directly and indirectly. One must

learn both the means to approach the desired destination and the hindrances

to such progress. The spiritual master knows how to regulate the habits of a

neophyte disciple, and therefore a serious student must learn the science in

all its aspects from him.

 

 

COMMENT:How one will get such personal care if the guru is on a another

planet, since every neophyte devotee has different habbits to be regulated.

How the posthumus guru will know about the disciple's hinderances. Since

this guru may be called a siksa guru by you, but since he is giving training

and is fully responsible for his training and so through the training for

the final perfection of the disciple, he has to be accepted as diksa guru.

 

 

 

7.

Krsna: Chapter Eighty-six :Prayers by the

A real brahmana, therefore, does not endeavor for material perfection;

rather, he approaches a bona fide spiritual master to accept orders from

him.....

When a bona fide student approaches a bona fide spiritual master, he

submissively prays to the spiritual master, "My dear lord, kindly accept me

as your student and train me in such a way that I will be able to give up

all other processes for self-realization and simply engage in Krsna

consciousness, devotional service."

 

COMMENT: The brahmana will have difficulty to approach a posthumus guru as

to get orders from him. Here doesn't say to approach his teachings but the

guru as a living person. Again how a posthumus guru will when he will hear

this prayers train the disciple in this particular way, since he has to see

the anarthas and so lead him to give up other processes. He has to know waht

other processes are the anarthas.

 

 

 

8.

Easy Journey to Other Planets: Chapter One

 

1. The serious candidate must accept a bona fide spiritual master in

order to be trained scientifically. Because the senses are material, it is

not at all possible to realize the Transcendence by them. Therefore the

senses have to be spiritualized by the prescribed method under the direction

of the spiritual master.

 

COMMENT: Training requires a person who trains, so the person must be living

for sure. The guru is here mentioned the person who is training the disciple

so he must be a living person.

 

2. When the student has chosen a bona fide spiritual master, he must

take the proper initiation from him. This marks the beginning of spiritual

training.

POINT: How one can choose when there is only one "diksa" guru, how he can

choose him if he is physically not present. It doesn't say one should choose

his teachings.

 

3. The candidate must be prepared to satisfy the spiritual master in

every way. A bona fide spiritual master who is fully cognizant of the

methods of spiritual science, learned in the spiritual scriptures such as

the Bhagavad-gita, Vedanta, Srimad-Bhagavatam and Upanisads, and who is also

a realized soul who has made a tangible connection with the Supreme Lord, is

the transparent medium by which the willing candidate is led to the path of

the Vaikunthas. The spiritual master must be satisfied in all respects,

because simply by his good wishes a candidate can make wonderful progress

along the path.

 

POINT: To satisfy a posthumus guru in every way is difficult enough since

the posthumus guru will be not able to expressing his desires directly, but

how a satisfied posthumus guru will give one his good wishes, since here the

spiritual master is not refered to the Supersoul who is all knowing.

 

 

 

 

9.

Bhagavad-gita As It Is: Chapter Fourteen, Text 20

He is forced to act because he is situated in a particular type of body,

conducted by some particular mode of material nature. Unless one has the

help of spiritual authority, he cannot understand in what position he is

actually situated. With the association of a bona fide spiritual master, he

can see his real position, and by such an understanding he can become fixed

in full Krsna consciousness.

COMMENT: How one will associate with a posthumus guru who should also show

one in what particular position one is situated. This requires a living

guru, who associates one and helps one.

 

 

 

 

10.

Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 3: Chapter Three, Text 3 :

The Lord is constitutionally well versed in all the Vedas, and yet to teach

by example that everyone must go to learn the Vedas from an authorized

teacher and must satisfy the teacher by service and reward, He Himself

adopted this system. The Lord offered His services to His teacher, Sandipani

Muni, and the muni, knowing the power of the Lord, asked something which was

impossible to be done by anyone else.

 

COMMENT: How one can go to a posthumus guru and satisfy him by service?

The Lord is showing himself the eternal living guru system.

 

 

 

11.

Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 8: Chapter Twenty-four, Text 54

 

....finding a guru? If one is sincere he can find the guru and learn

everything.

One should take lessons from the guru and find out the goal of life.

Maharaja.

 

COMMENT: So one should take lessons from the guru.

 

 

 

12.

Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1: Chapter Two, Text 2

Such duties enjoin that a candidate willing to study the Vedas must approach

a bona fide spiritual master and request acceptance as his disciple.

 

COMMENT: So how to approach the posthumous guru and even request him to

accept one, this means directly the living guru in person or through a

letter!

 

 

13.

Teachings of Lord Caitanya: Chapter Ten :The Beauty of

Krsna

Diseased and conditioned, the living entity transmigrates throughout in the

upper planetary system and sometimes in the lower system this way he leads

his diseased life. His disease can be cured only when he meets and follows

the expert physician, the ... fide spiritual master.

 

COMMENT:

Srila Prabhupada says that one'd disease of conditioning can be only cured

when he meets a spiritual master, It is quite obvious that this spiritual

master is a living one, since it is quite difficult to meet a posthumus

guru. To meet the guru one has to be on the same planet also for sure.

 

14.

Teachings of Lord Caitanya: Chapter Eleven

Indeed, that attraction is the shackle of material energy. Since it is very

difficult for a person to become free as long as he desiresto dominate

material nature, it is recommended that he approach a spiritual master who

can train him in devotional service and enable him to get out of the

clutches of material nature and achieve the lotus feet of Krsna.

 

COMMENT: Again how the posthumus, absent guru can train one or enable the

disciple. It is written that "who can train him and enable him" and not

whose teachings can train him and enable him.

 

15.

Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 4: Chapter Twenty-one, Text 27

For example, Krsna comes like an ordinary human being, He comes as a devotee

like Lord Caitanya, or He sends His representative, the spiritual master, or

pure devotee. This is also the planned activity of the Supreme personality

of Godhead. They come to canvass and educate, and thus a person in the

illusory energy of the Supreme Lord gets a chance to mix with them, talk

with them and take lessons from them, and somehow or other if a conditioned

soul surrenders to such personalities and by intimate association with them

chances to become Krsna conscious, he is saved from the material conditions

of life.

 

COMMENT: The posthumus guru can not mix with disciples, talk to them or give

them lessions. Maybe when he was present as a non-posthumus guru.

 

16.

Antya-lila: Chapter Seven, Text 55

If one wants to learn the meaning of Srimad-Bhagavatam, one must take

lessons from a realized soul. One should not proudly think that one can

understand the transcendental loving service of the Lord simply by reading

books.

COMMENT: So reading books according to Srila Prabhupada is not enough.

 

One must become a servant of a Vaisnava. One must accept a Vaisnava guru

(adau gurv-asrayam), and then by questions and answers one should gradually

learn what pure devotional service to Krsna is. That is called the parampara

system.

 

COMMENT: This vaisnava has to be living and not posthumous since how ask him

questions and hear the answers and so advance gradually. So the questions

and answers are according to the circumstances of the disciple, step by step

he is trained, than he advances gradually.

 

18.

Adi-lila: Chapter One, Text 35

The secret is that one must submissively iisten to those who know perfectly

the science of God, and one must begin the mode of service regulated by the

preceptor.

 

COMMENT:

How the guru will regulate the service if not livingly present. Srila

Prabhupada was also giving this regulations through the letters, but did

anyone of the pseudo-"NEW"-Prabhuapa-disciples get any information on the

regulation of his personal service.

 

A devotee already attracted by the name, form, qualities, etc., of the

Supreme Lord may be directed to his specific manner of devotional service;

he need not waste time in approaching the Lord through logic. The expert

spiritual master knows well how to engage his disciple's energy in the

transcendental loving service of the Lord, and thus he engages a devotee in

a specific devotional service according to his special tendency.

 

COMMENT:

The living guru can see the devotees tendencies and level of the advancement

and so direct the disciple's energy. So the diksa guru has to be living

present before him. He may be far away sometimes, so the guru will collect

he information and do the personal care. For a physically absent posthumus

guru it is not possible to personally engage the disciple according to his

(disciples) special tendency. There would be lack of communication.

 

19.

Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1: Chapter Six, Text 23, PURPORT

Serving the Absolute Truth means rendering service unto the Absolute

Personality of Godhead under the direction of the bona fide spiritual

master, who is a transparent via medium between the Lord and the neophyte

devotee. The neophyte devotee has no ability to approach the Absolute

Personality of Godhead by the strength of his present imperfect material

senses, and therefore under the direction of the spiritual master he is

trained in transcendental service of the Lord. And by such training, even

for some days, the neophyte devotee gets intelligence in such transcendental

service, which leads him ultimately to get free from perpetual inhabitation

in the material worlds and to be promoted to the transcendental world to

become one of the liberated associates of the Lord in the kingdom of God.

 

COMMENT: The neophyte devotee has to get training under the direction of the

spiritual master, even only some days. By this he will become perfect. How a

posthumus guru can give training under his direction even for some days,

since he is not physically present.

 

 

20.

Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 7: Chapter Seven, Text 33

Prahlada Maharaja proposed that from the very beginning of life (kaumara

acaret prajnah) a small child should be trained to serve the spiritual

master while living at the guru-kula.

COMMENT: The gurukuli's are trained to serve a living guru

 

21.

Adi-lila: Chapter One, Text 37

If one thinks that he is above consulting anyone else, including a spiritual

master, he is at once an offender at the lotus feet of the Lord. Such an

offender can never go back to Godhead.

COMMENT: How to consult a posthumous guru?

 

 

 

22.

Prabhupada's Lectures General - 1969

Indian lady: How does one contact the spiritual master? Through a book can

you contact the spiritual master?

Prabhupada: No, you have to associate.

Syamasundara: "Can you associate through a book?" she asked.

Prabhupada: Yes, through books, and also personal. Because when you make a

spiritual master you have got personal touch. Not that in air you make a

spiritual master. You make a spiritual master concrete. So as soon as you

make a spiritual master, you should be inquisitive.

 

COMMENT: This means that you have to associate with the guru in the vapuh

form and not only in vani form. You can only associate with an posthumous

guru in the vani form, because the vapuh form of the spiritual master is

that he is physically manifested.

 

23.

Prabhupada's Lectures Srimad-Bhagavatam 1973

Suppose I have heard something from my spiritual master, so I speak to you

the same thing. So this is parampara system. You cannot imagine what my

spiritual master said. Or even if you read some books, you cannot understand

unless you understand it from me. This is called parampara system. You

cannot jump over to the superior guru, neglecting the next acarya, immediate

next acarya.

 

 

 

COMMENT: So one has to hear and this from the immediate guru, immediate

means according to the Random Dictionary::

next, near, adjacent (next to), close, local, nearby, nearest, proximate,

contiguous, nigh, not distant; recent.

This means so the recent ( contemporary), next, nearby guru.

Since the antonyms are: distant, peripheral, far, remote.

So a immediate guru means who is not distant, far or remote. The posthomous

guru would not fullfil this qualities, since he in person is far away. ONE

SHOULD NOT JUMP OVER TO A SUPERIOR GURU.