Jump to content
IndiaDivine.org

HOW A GURU IS LIBERATED

Rate this topic


Guest guest

Recommended Posts

Guest guest

Dear respected vaisnavas,

PAMHO. AGTSP. ALL GLORIES TO THE GBC AND GBC FOLLOWERS.

Since the Rtvikvadis are taking advantage of some gurus having problems or

leaving the position of guru. They argue since the guru's are falling from

the path of devotional service, why not to have Srila Prabhupada as guru,

even when this contradicts the sastras, the spiritual tradition of all the

4 sampradayas. The tattva that a guru can be simultaneously liberated and

not liberated " as to have svarupa siddhi" is explaining how Srila

Prabhupada wanted all his disciples to be gurus.

 

Since Srila Prabhupada gave so many enlightining purport on this matter, I

try to present some here.

--------

Room Conversation Bombay, August 16, 1976

 

The statements of Thakura Bhaktivinode are as good as scriptures because he

is liberated person. Generally the spiritual master comes from the group of

such eternal associates of the Lord; but anyone who follows the principles

of such ever liberated persons is as good as one in the above mentioned

group.

 

Comment: The teachings of an liberated acarya are so potent that a devotee

strictly following them becomes empowered to be guru.

So, this gurus who are not liberated on their own, by the power of the

potent teachings of a eternal liberated acarya, have the same potency to

deliver the fallen souls and disciples. They can act as gurus and acaryas as

long they are following the teachings of the liberated guru. They are

liberated by the following of the nitya siddha acarya since the potency of

this liberated acarya is acting through them.

As Srila Prabhupada says in his own words: "Is as good as in the above

mentioned group (nitya siddha gurus-eternal associates)"

 

 

 

A person who is liberated acharya and guru cannot commit any mistake, but

there are persons who are less qualified or not liberated, but still can act

as guru and acharya by strictly following the disciplic succession.

 

 

 

Comment:

The liberated acarya is always acting on the transcendental platform and he

is directed from within from the caitya guru- Supersoul.

Naturally his teachings are as good as those of the Paramatma or Krishna. So

there is no question that he will do mistakes. The not liberated gurus who

are less qualified on their own account, can get the neccesary knowledge

from the teachings given by the liberated guru. Srila Prabhupada says that

still the not liberated and less qualified devotee can be an acarya and

guru.

 

 

It is the injunction of the sastras that anyone who sees the Deity in the

Temple as made of wood or stone or considers the acaryas and gurus as

ordinary common men, and discriminates Vaisnavas or devotees as belonging to

a certain group or caste, are called hellish.

 

Comment: It is clear from the above text that Srila Prabhupada is exepting

both categories of the gurus- the liberated and those liberated by following

as qualified to act as gurus and acaryas. Therefore this text warns the

sincere devotees to not commit offences. One commiting this kinds of

offences is considered hellish!

 

 

Only this statements of Srila Prabhupada are enough to dispel the darkness.

 

 

---------

Prabhupada's Lectures Bhagavad-gita 1972 And akarma means you act in

such a way that you become liberated. Akarma. You are not bound up. That

akarma is yajna, Yajnarthe karma anyatra karma bandhana. If you act for

Visnu or Krsna, then you are not, I mean to say, liable of the

responsibilites of karma.Because you are doing everything for Krsna.

 

Comment: Akarma are actions which liberate one, the person doing this akarma

activities which consist of activities performed as a yajna or sacrifice

unto Lord Visnu is therefore liberated on the account of the activities

performed in bhakti yoga. The devotees especially a guru is performing

everything for Krsna, so naturally they are not liable to the law of karma

-therefore are liberated from the bounds of karma.

 

 

 

---------

Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 10: Chapter Four, Text 20 "A person acting in the

service of Krsna with his body, mind and words is a liberated person, even

within the material world." (Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu 1.2.187) Therefore, one

is forbidden to regard the guru as an ordinary human being (gurusu

nara-matir... naraki sah). The spiritual master, or acarya, is always

situated in the spiritual status of life.

 

Comment: Because the guru is engaging his body, mind and words in Krsna's

service he is liberated and therefore is offensive to see the guru as

ordinary person. The guru may not be liberated like the eternal associates

of Lord Sri Krsna but he is liberated by following and by performing Krsna

consciousness activities with body,mind and words.

 

 

----------

Prabhupada's Lectures Srimad-Bhagavatam 1969

 

....krsna-tattva-vetta, sei guru haya: ``Anyone who understands factually

what are the activities of Krsna, what is Krsna, he is spiritual master. He

is spiritual...'' Therefore Vyasadeva... Narada is spiritual master,

Vyasadeva is spiritual master, or anyone who knows by following their

footprints, he is also spiritual master.

 

Comment: The not liberated guru may not know Krsna from within, but he

"knows by following in their footprints". So therefore by following the

footprints of the liberated gurus he understands what are the activities of

Krsna, and therefore by the definition: " Anyone who understands factually

what are the activities of Krsna, what is Krsna, he is spiritual master."

 

 

Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, sei yei krsna-tattva-vetta, sei guru haya. And one

who knows Krsna-tattva, he becomes immediately liberated.

 

Comment: By the definition of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, one who knows

Krsna-tattva by following in the footprints of liberated acaryas and gurus

but is not liberated on his own account, he becomes liberated by having this

knowledge received from the liberated acaryas.

 

 

Because it is said here, akhila-bandha-muktaye, liberated from all

conditions of material nature. So a spiritual master means one who knows

Krsna. And as soon as one knows Krsna, he's liberated. Therefore a spiritual

master is liberated.

 

Comment: So spiritual master means one who knows Krsna. The question which

has to be answered now is:" How he knows Krsna?" This questions was already

answered above, that he knows Krsna by following in the footprints of

liberated acaryas and gurus.

----------

 

 

Prabhupada's Lectures Caitanya-caritamrta 1966

(morning)

Prabhupada: Sarvajna munira vakya----sastra-'paramana', ama-saba jivera haya

sastra-dvara "jnana'. We should always think that we are in the modes of

ignorance. We are just trying to make progress from ignorance to goodness

and then transcend. This is the process of spiritual realization. Nobody

should think that we are perfect. We cannot be. God is, only God is perfect.

And we are all imperfect. Even our so-called liberated stage, we are still

imperfect.

Comment: The living entity as the infinite part of Krsna even he can be

considered perfect, he is still imperfect since he has not allpervarding

knowledge.

 

Therefore one has to take shelter of authority because, constitutionally, we

are imperfect. Lord Caitanya says, ama-saba jivera haya sastra- dvara

"jnana'. So therefore, for real knowledge, we have to consult the

scriptures, sastra.

Comment: Even in his constutional position one is considered imperfect in

comparision to the all perfect and all knowing Lord. The real knowledge is

given in the sastras. The Vedas are eternal. They are the words of the Lord.

Every word is eternal and is never changed. So therefore one even in the

liberated stage has to follow and consult the Vedas and all scriptures

following the Vedas.

 

Sadhu-sastra-guru. Sadhu means pious, religious, honest person. Sadhu, whose

character is spotless, he's called sadhu.

Comment: A devotee of Krsna is naturally a sadhu.

 

Sastra means scripture, and guru. Guru means spiritual master. They are on

the equal level. Why? Because the medium is scripture.

Comment: Scripture are as good as the words of the Supreme Personality of

Godhead Sri Krsna. The scripture, the sadhu and guru are on the same level

because they are giving the same knowledge. Sadhu and guru are speaking the

sastras and they are explaining them that a particular person can understand

the sastra. But the meaning of the sastra remains unchanged.

 

Guru is considered to be liberated because he follows the scripture.

 

Comment: The guru is subordinate to the sastras, as the sastras directly

represent the Lord. The guru cannot be liberated and change the meanings of

scriptures, or that ommits to follow them. A liberated guru respects the

scriptures as the representative of the Lord and preaches the knowledge of

sastras, even a complete avadhuta like Vamsi das Babaji or Gaura Kisora das

Babaji didn't speak anything opposing the scriptures. They completely

rejected the social traditions or even the spiritual traditions as given for

the benefit and upliftment of the practising devotees. But they followed the

sastras when they preached or transmitted knowledge.

 

A guru who is not liberated on his own account is liberated when he is

following the sastras. The sastras are perfect knowlege and there is no need

of speculating on them. One has just to repeat as one has learned from the

guru.

 

Sadhu is considered to be honest and saintly because he follows scripture.

Sadhu-sastra-guru-vakya. Nobody can become a sadhu if he does not accept the

principles of scripture.

Comment: So the sastras are the superior. Scriptures have to be followed by

sadhu and sastra. But the sastra doesn't change according to the particular

desire of a guru or sastra.

 

 

Nobody can be accepted as guru, or spiritual master, if he does not follow

the principles of scripture. This is the test.

 

Comment: The test for guru is how much he is following the scriptures, he

may be liberate or not liberated this is the test. As long a guru who is not

liberated on his own account follows the scriptures he is considered

liberated. When he is opposing the scriptures he can be not accepted as guru

anymore.

----------

 

Prabhupada's Lectures General - 1973

 

Anyone who is coming to Krsna consciousness, he's not ordinary living being.

Anyone who is connected with our movement, he's not ordinary living being.

Actually he's liberated soul.

 

Comment: Here Srila Prabhupada is clearly pointing out that since anyone

connected with the movement can be considered liberated. Sometimes it is

very difficult to see in the daily dealing with devotees that they should be

liberated. If we want we can see so many defects or faults. But all the

living beeing connected with Krsna Conscious movement are accepting the

satras, are engaging the body, mind and words in Krsnas service, are

following in the footprints of liberated souls and therefore they can also

understand the nature of Krsna's activities. So they can be taken as

liberated.

 

WE SHOULD THEREFORE FOLLOW THE SCRIPTURES AND PERFORM KRSNA CONSCIOUS

ACTIVITIES-AKARMA, ENGAGE BODY, WORDS AND MIND IN THE SERVICE OF KRSNA AND

SO WE BECOME LIBERATED.

 

THE RTVIKVADA IS ABSOLUTELY NO SOLUTION SINCE IT IS ACTING IN THE MUNDANE

SPHERE NAMELY TRYING TO ESTABLISH A DIVIANT SPECULATION ON THE COURT,

ACCEPTS MUNDANE PERSONS AUTHORITIES TO DECIDE ON TRANSCENDENTAL MATTERS,

(which is only covered fight for power and money from the side of the

Rtvikvadis), JUGGLING WITH THE WORDS, ACCEPTING MUNDANE SOLUTIONS AND

EXPLAINING THE SASTRAS ACCORDING TO ONES WHIMS AND TH3E SPECULATIONS ON THE

JULY 9th LETTER, IS BLASPHEMING GURUS AND VAISNAVAS, IS CONSIDERING GURUS AS

ORDINARY PERSONS AGAINST THE SCRIPTURAL INJUNTIONS AND IS WAISTING SRILA

PRABHUPADA'S MONEY.

A REAL BENEFICIAL WORK FOR THE ISCKON COMMUNITY.

 

When one is thinking that to accept a guru who may not be liberated by

following, is risky, since the posibility of fall down is there, he may

argue taht better reject the sastras and previous acaryas and accept Srila

Prabhupada, the nitya siddha, eternal liberated guru and associate of the

Lord as posthomus guru, since on can be sure he will not fall down.

 

 

Dear Rtvikvadis. But for the sake so called safety you are commiting

vaisnava aparadhas and guru aparadhas, are diverting the meanings of Srila

Prabhupada's teachings as to fit the speculations on the july 9th letter and

are engaging also Srila Prabhupada's money to fill up the bank accounts of

the lawyers instead to use it for the preaching.

I hope you are not aware of what you are doing due to the bewilderment, so

the offence and reactions will be less for you.

 

It is therefore not hard to see for a sincere devotee that a guru is

liberated by following from the above quotes, but one may be still

concerned, that even my guru is liberated and bonafide now and I am getting

so much mercy and inspiration from him at the present, but what if he later

will fall down.

Here Srila Prabhupada is explaining this point very lucidly.

 

Room Conversation London, July 11, 1973

Prabhupada: No, this argument is not very strong. Just like one foodstuff,

freshly made, it is fresh. But if somebody argues that if it remains four

days more, it will become bad, that is surmisation. Now it is fresh. We

take it fresh. What will happen in future, that is no consideration. In

future, everyone may fall and everyone may become elevated. But we have to

take his present situation, what he is at present.

 

COMMENT: There is no need to speculate therefore who will fall down or who

will elevate himself. The guru should be taken as he is acting now.

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur said that a vaisnava should live in the presence,

and not think about the past or speculate about the future. One may

speculate all time what will happen, but it may happen different that one

has emagined, so what was the use of all this time wasted.

 

Father Tanner: But couldn't it be the difference between appearance and

reality?

Prabhupada: This is reality. If at the present moment he is free from all

sinful activities, that is reality. In future, everyone is susceptible to

fall down. If he does not carry the principles strictly that proneness is

there. But that is not consideration. What he is at present, that is

consideration.

COMMENT: So the reality is what is happening in the present. The future

reality can not be considered since is unclear.

 

Father Tanner: But what he is at present may be an accident.

Prabhupada: Why accident? Which is actually happening, why it is accident?

Father Tanner: Well, for instance, if you take a man shipwrecked on an

island alone, he is not in any sense taking part in impure love, or illicit

love. But it doesn't mean to say that he is free from all desire for illicit

love.

Prabhupada: No. Nobody's free. But so long he acts nicely, he's nice.

COMMENT: Why a sincere person should be accused as a thief just because so

many people are thieves. It doesn't make any sense. So a sincere guru who is

liberated by following should be accepted as such, as long he is not

diviating from the above prescribtions.

One may be having some material impurities but since he is not acting

according to them, but rather he engages in service to Krsna he can be

considered as pure.

 

Father Tanner: So it is the action, rather than the, no, the exterior rather

than the interior.

Prabhupada: No, interior... Well, of course, everyone has got interior

tendency, but by practicing actually, exteriorally, that interior also is

reformed. It is, by external behavior, the interior behavior also becomes

fixed up. By practice. Therefore there is regular class so that he may be

purified internally and externally. Sa bahyabhyantara-sucih. Yah smaret

pundarikaksam sa bahyabhyantara-sucih. If you constantly remember the

Supreme Lord, so you become automatically purified, internally and

externally.

COMMENT: By first acting purely exteriorally in service to Krsna ones

internal consciousness will become purified, this is the fact for the guru

and the disciple. Everyone can become pure and also liberated.

 

YHS

Damana Krsna das Br.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...