Varna first, asrama later????

[Guest guest]

> You have supported your statement well. Thanks. I'm convinced,

> but I still have a doubt. Why did Srila Prabhupada not teach us

> our varna first? And why did he have us in ISKCON not teach

> others their varna first?

 

 

Srila Prabhupada gave the orders to his senior disciples over 25 years ago

and they have not followed it to this day:

 

"Hrdayananda Goswami: So for example, if I become a teacher, a first teacher

in varna-asrama dharma colleges, then I must become expert in how to fight

and to . . .

 

Srila Prabhupada: Not all of you, but some of you must learn the art of

fighting. Practically speaking, we are not going to fight. If required we

can fight. I said that we are above all this varna-asrama dharma but we

must train others, ourselves also, for material activities under these

divisions.

 

Hrdayananda Goswami: Should there be any material subject matters taught

like in Gurukula?

 

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. Just like material subject matter, ksatriya,

brahmana. Vyasadeva described in Bhagavad Gita what are the symptoms of

brahmana, what are the symptoms of ksatriya. The ksatriya should be taught

how to fight. There will be military training. There will be training on

how to kill. And vaisyas will be trained on how to give protection to the

cows, how to till the field and grow food. Practical."

 

 

 

> Apart from the above quote, and no doubt there are others too,

> all Srila Prabhupada's instructions direct us to FIRST chant

> and the get others to chant without very little mention of

> varna.

 

 

I am sorry but relevent quotes from guru/sadhu are important:

 

"Satsvarupa: Lord Caitanya, when Ramananda Raya brought this up He said it

was not possible in this age to introduce this.

Prabhupada: ....Caitanya Mahaprabhu was interested only on the spiritual

platform. He had no idea of material side. He rejected material side.

Satsvarupa: But don't we do that also?

Prabhupada: NO. OUR POSITION IS DIFFERENT (My emphasis). We are trying to

implement Krsna consciousness in everything. And Caitanya Mahaprabhu

personally took sannyasa. He rejected completely material. Niskincana. But

we are not going to be niskincana. We are trying to cement the troubled

position of the...

That is also in the prescription of Bhagavad-gita. We are not rejecting the

whole society. Caitanya Mahaprabhu rejected everything, iha bahya. Rejected

meaning, "I do not take much interest in this." Bahya. "It is external." He

was simply interested in the internal, the spiritual. But our duty is that

we shall arrange the external affairs also so nicely that one day they will

come to the spiritual platform very easily, paving the way. And Caitanya

Mahaprabhu, personality like that, they have nothing to do with this

material world. But we are preaching. We are preaching. Therefore we must

pave the situation in such a way that gradually they will be promoted to the

spiritual plane"

 

"Prabhupada: Not required. Caitanya Mahaprabhu denied, "I am not brahmana, I

am not ksatriya, I am not this, I am not this." He rejected. But in the

Bhagavad-gita, the catur-varnyam maya srstam. So we are Krsna..., preaching

Krsna consciousness. It must be done.

Hari-sauri: But in Caitanya Mahaprabhu's practical preaching He only induced

them to chant.

Prabhupada: That is not possible for ordinary man."

 

 

 

> No need to inundate me with the quotes supporting your initial

> point, I read most of them. My question is how do you RECONCILE

> these opposing instructions? Should we measure them quantitately

> to determine priority? Maybe the GBC have done that!!

 

 

If Srila Prabhupada gave ONE sentence of clear instruction to start a

program how can anyone argue it? Quantity has nothing to do with it. It is

only an excuse. The instructions are very clear to any honest gentlemen. Not

following because of an admitted inability or disqualification is one thing.

Denying the orders and avoiding the responsibility while holding the title

of "leader" is another thing.

 

Did he EVER say NOT to start varnasrama in this society? Did he ever say

varnasrama was to be avoided for 25 years? Did he tell us that his four days

of morning walk conversations detailing implementation of varnasrama in

ISKCON was all a mistake? I don't think so. I have found nothing in his

books which opposes the implementation of varna training. On the contrary I

find many references that say avoiding implementation of varnasrama in human

society leads to chaos and animal life.

 

Usually I am asked, "OK! OK!, Janesvara, stop your yelling. Instead of

criticizing, what practical advice do you have?" I was asked that question

many times over the last 25 years of my campaign for VAD and I always give

the same answer: implement the orders of the spiritual master - start

varnasrama counseling in EVERY center, EVERYDAY, for EVERY devotee.

Prioritize the varna training. Provide funding for VAD curriculum

development. Provide a room in every center to counsel all devotees in varna

education. Print the varnasrama morning walk conversations into a bound

booklet (I have been distributing a 25 page booklet of the transcriptions of

these conversations for 25 years to interested devotees) for distribution to

EVERY devotee. Also print the Valentines Day VAD conversations with

Hari-sauri and Satsvarupa for all to read. These are extremely powerful and

essential instructions from the guru maharaja regarding this matter.

 

Remember, varnasrama-dharma means cow protection also. Cows and bulls are at

the center of the VAD institution and you cannot have brahminical culture

without cow protection.The GBC has finally, after years and years of cow

abuses (! unbelievable to even think of this from Govinda's "devotees" !),

they have just begun to take steps to correct this CRIME.

 

But cows are citizens and people are citizens, too. If the GBC has begun to

take steps towards the cows, and we shall keep a vigilant eye on this, they

should also take steps towards the people citizens and implement VAD for

their spiritual and material welfare. That is leadership, not otherwise.