Varna first, asrama later????

[Guest guest]

Dear Janesvara Prabhu

PAMHO AGTSP

 

You have supported your points well with relevant quotes. Not

having studied this topic in the same depth you have, could you

tell me, did Srila Prabhupada ever specifically say that the GBC

should set up varnasrama dhama? If not then perhaps this

responsibility should not come directly under the GBC who

nowadays and for some time to come have their hands more than

full with one crisis after another and very little resources. If

Srila Prabhuada did say the GBC is directly responsible for

varnasrama then at this point of time you can't blame them for

not taking it up in the way you would like. Unfortunately, it

may take some time.

 

ys

 

ada

 

> > You have supported your statement well. Thanks. I'm

> > convinced,

> > but I still have a doubt. Why did Srila Prabhupada not teach

> > us our varna first? And why did he have us in ISKCON not

> > teach others their varna first?

>

>

> Srila Prabhupada gave the orders to his senior disciples over

> 25 years ago and they have not followed it to this day:

>

> "Hrdayananda Goswami: So for example, if I become a teacher, a

> first teacher in varna-asrama dharma colleges, then I must

> become expert in how to fight and to . . .

>

> Srila Prabhupada: Not all of you, but some of you must learn

> the art of fighting. Practically speaking, we are not going

> to fight. If required we can fight. I said that we are above

> all this varna-asrama dharma but we must train others,

> ourselves also, for material activities under these divisions.

>

> Hrdayananda Goswami: Should there be any material subject

> matters taught like in Gurukula?

>

> Srila Prabhupada: Yes. Just like material subject matter,

> ksatriya, brahmana. Vyasadeva described in Bhagavad Gita what

> are the symptoms of brahmana, what are the symptoms of

> ksatriya. The ksatriya should be taught how to fight. There

> will be military training. There will be training on how to

> kill. And vaisyas will be trained on how to give protection

> to the cows, how to till the field and grow food. Practical."

>

>

>

> > Apart from the above quote, and no doubt there are others

> > too,

> > all Srila Prabhupada's instructions direct us to FIRST

> > chant

> > and the get others to chant without very little mention of

> > varna.

>

>

> I am sorry but relevent quotes from guru/sadhu are important:

>

> "Satsvarupa: Lord Caitanya, when Ramananda Raya brought this

> up He said it was not possible in this age to introduce this.

> Prabhupada: ....Caitanya Mahaprabhu was interested only on the

> spiritual platform. He had no idea of material side. He

> rejected material side. Satsvarupa: But don't we do that also?

> Prabhupada: NO. OUR POSITION IS DIFFERENT (My emphasis). We

> are trying to implement Krsna consciousness in everything. And

> Caitanya Mahaprabhu personally took sannyasa. He rejected

> completely material. Niskincana. But we are not going to be

> niskincana. We are trying to cement the troubled position of

> the...

> That is also in the prescription of Bhagavad-gita. We are not

> rejecting the whole society. Caitanya Mahaprabhu rejected

> everything, iha bahya. Rejected meaning, "I do not take much

> interest in this." Bahya. "It is external." He was simply

> interested in the internal, the spiritual. But our duty is

> that we shall arrange the external affairs also so nicely that

> one day they will come to the spiritual platform very easily,

> paving the way. And Caitanya Mahaprabhu, personality like

> that, they have nothing to do with this material world. But we

> are preaching. We are preaching. Therefore we must pave the

> situation in such a way that gradually they will be promoted

> to the spiritual plane"

>

> "Prabhupada: Not required. Caitanya Mahaprabhu denied, "I am

> not brahmana, I am not ksatriya, I am not this, I am not

> this." He rejected. But in the Bhagavad-gita, the

> catur-varnyam maya srstam. So we are Krsna..., preaching Krsna

> consciousness. It must be done.

> Hari-sauri: But in Caitanya Mahaprabhu's practical preaching

> He only induced them to chant.

> Prabhupada: That is not possible for ordinary man."

>

>

>

> > No need to inundate me with the quotes supporting your

> > initial

> > point, I read most of them. My question is how do you

> > RECONCILE these opposing instructions? Should we measure

> > them quantitately to determine priority? Maybe the GBC have

> > done that!!

>

>

> If Srila Prabhupada gave ONE sentence of clear instruction to

> start a program how can anyone argue it? Quantity has nothing

> to do with it. It is only an excuse. The instructions are very

> clear to any honest gentlemen. Not following because of an

> admitted inability or disqualification is one thing. Denying

> the orders and avoiding the responsibility while holding the

> title of "leader" is another thing.

>

> Did he EVER say NOT to start varnasrama in this society? Did

> he ever say varnasrama was to be avoided for 25 years? Did he

> tell us that his four days of morning walk conversations

> detailing implementation of varnasrama in ISKCON was all a

> mistake? I don't think so. I have found nothing in his books

> which opposes the implementation of varna training. On the

> contrary I find many references that say avoiding

> implementation of varnasrama in human society leads to chaos

> and animal life.

>

> Usually I am asked, "OK! OK!, Janesvara, stop your yelling.

> Instead of criticizing, what practical advice do you have?" I

> was asked that question many times over the last 25 years of

> my campaign for VAD and I always give the same answer:

> implement the orders of the spiritual master - start

> varnasrama counseling in EVERY center, EVERYDAY, for EVERY

> devotee. Prioritize the varna training. Provide funding for

> VAD curriculum development. Provide a room in every center to

> counsel all devotees in varna education. Print the varnasrama

> morning walk conversations into a bound booklet (I have been

> distributing a 25 page booklet of the transcriptions of these

> conversations for 25 years to interested devotees) for

> distribution to EVERY devotee. Also print the Valentines Day

> VAD conversations with Hari-sauri and Satsvarupa for all to

> read. These are extremely powerful and essential instructions

> from the guru maharaja regarding this matter.

>

> Remember, varnasrama-dharma means cow protection also. Cows

> and bulls are at the center of the VAD institution and you

> cannot have brahminical culture without cow protection.The GBC

> has finally, after years and years of cow abuses (!

> unbelievable to even think of this from Govinda's "devotees"

> !), they have just begun to take steps to correct this CRIME.

>

> But cows are citizens and people are citizens, too. If the GBC

> has begun to take steps towards the cows, and we shall keep a

> vigilant eye on this, they should also take steps towards the

> people citizens and implement VAD for their spiritual and

> material welfare. That is leadership, not otherwise.