Guest guest Posted June 22, 1999 Report Share Posted June 22, 1999 >If they really hate the GBC and ISKCON since they believe it has deviated >from Prabhupada's instructions, they say that the existing GBC is not what Srila Prabhupada established and so there is no GBC as such. This sounds like mayavadis who want to become God by saying there is no God. the question to them is even if the GBC is deviated, where did Srila Prabhupada say that if the GBC deviates one should not follow them? let them prove it and then talk about ignoring their (the GBC's) existance. ys, bb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 1999 Report Share Posted June 22, 1999 On Sun, 20 Jun 99 14:05 +0000, COM: Vidvan Gauranga (das) JPS (Mayapur - IN) wrote: > > If they really hate the GBC and ISKCON since they believe it has deviated > from Prabhupada's instructions, then they should follow in Prabhupada's > footsteps and create a new society from a scratch and not be parasites of > ISKCON, and that too fighting against it. But why do the No-Change-vadis > change such a principal directive of Prabhupada to work UNDER the GBC in all > circumstances? > > ys > vgd Dear Vidvan Gauranga prabhu, Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. I understand your point of using the ritvik's own arguments against them, but I find your tone a bit harsh. Forgive me for making a side point to your posting, but I think it's important. Is it so difficult to understand that perhaps the GBC has acted in such a way over the years that many devotees have lost faith in that governing body? Whether or not they "should" have kept faith, or who was at fault for what, the simple fact is that after Srila Prabhupada left our material vision, many devotees lost faith in the GBC. Respect and obedience cannot be mandated. You can say "Srila Prabhupada said" forever, prabhu, but that is basic human nature. Respect and obedience must be earned. Once it has been lost, one must work very hard to regain it. "Once burned, twice shy." Is it so hard to respect each other's choices based on our own realizations and experiences? We may not agree, but can't we at least "agree to disagree"? As members of a family often disagree, some of our family members are not going to accept the GBC; some of our family members are never going to give up believing that Srila Prabhupada wanted only ritvik gurus; some of our family members are going to take shelter of their spiritual uncles. Are they to be despised? Shunned? Kicked out? Mayadevi's strategy of "divide and conquer" is working all too well. We need to respect each other and learn to work together for a common cause - Mahaprabhu's mission - and stop squabbling over the details of diksa, siksa, etc. Didn't Srila Prabhupada often say this was a nonsectarian movement? Does that only apply to nonVaisnava faiths? Let us embrace all Vaisnavas, aspiring Vaisnavas, and servants of the Vaisnavas as our family members, and as our superiors. Let us endeavor to become the servant of the servant, then we will please our divine master, Srila Prabhupada. your humble servant, Mamata devi dasi _____ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 1999 Report Share Posted June 23, 1999 > Is it so difficult to understand that perhaps the GBC has acted in such a > way over the years that many devotees have lost faith in that governing > body? Whether or not they "should" have kept faith, or who was at fault > for what, the simple fact is that after Srila Prabhupada left our material > vision, many devotees lost faith in the GBC. Respect and obedience cannot > be mandated. You can say "Srila Prabhupada said" forever, prabhu, but that > is basic human nature. Respect and obedience must be earned. Once it has > been lost, one must work very hard to regain it. "Once burned, twice > shy." > > Is it so hard to respect each other's choices based on our own > realizations and experiences? We may not agree, but can't we at least > "agree to disagree"? As members of a family often disagree, some of our > family members are not going to accept the GBC; some of our family > members are never going to give up believing that Srila Prabhupada wanted > only ritvik gurus; some of our family members are going to take shelter of > their spiritual uncles. Are they to be despised? Shunned? Kicked out? > Mayadevi's strategy of "divide and conquer" is working all too well. We > need to respect each other and learn to work together for a common cause - > Mahaprabhu's mission - and stop squabbling over the details of diksa, > siksa, etc. Didn't Srila Prabhupada often say this was a nonsectarian > movement? Does that only apply to nonVaisnava faiths? Let us embrace all > Vaisnavas, aspiring Vaisnavas, and servants of the Vaisnavas as our family > members, and as our superiors. Let us endeavor to become the servant of > the servant, then we will please our divine master, Srila Prabhupada. Well, they are holding ISKCON at gun point in Calcutta High Court and I am amazed you are so sympathetic to those with whom Prabhupada would be furious at!!! Yes, there have been so many unpalatable mistakes done by the leadership, but does that mean that the pro-rtviks can go to Calcutta High Court to fight? Our divine master Prabhupada kicked out Nitai das and said that his association is poisonous! He didn't "embrace" him into his ISKCON Vaisnava family. Even Lord Caitanya, when He saw one of His devotees (Mukunda) listening to non-Vaisnavas, He wanted to banish him! Why? Didn't He have any Vaisnava-affection? > Sri Mukunda, a great friend and associate of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu, > used to visit many places where people were against the Vaisnava cult. > When Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu came to know of this, He punished Mukunda, > forbidding him to see Him again. Although Caitanya Mahaprabhu was soft > like a flower, He was also strict like a thunderbolt, and everyone was > afraid to allow Mukunda to come again into the presence of Sri Caitanya > Mahaprabhu. (CC Adi 12.41p) My point is very simple: that Prabhupada has created some rules for cooperation. "Your love for me will be shown by how much you cooperate together." And cooperation means that you have to follow some rules. Srila Prabhupada set up those rules. and one of the rule is to ALWAYS work under the GBC, i.e. if you want to be ISKCON. If you don't like the GBC, then please step outside and serve Prabhupada out of ISKCON. Who is stopping you? But within ISKCON, you have to cooperate with the GBC. Srila Prabhupada set it up like that: there is no question of agreeing to disagree to fulfill this fundamental point. Otherwise it is meaningless to talk of "love" etc. Love means that you follow some basic ground rules. Otherwise, simply talking of "love" is meaningless. When Srila Prabhupada felt that the Gaudiya Math(s) leaders were not following the instructions of his divine master, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, he didn't fight against their leadership. He simply executed the will of his spiritual master outside the confines of the Gaudiya Math(s), creating ISKCON. And since he was 100% following Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, he did what these Gaudiya Math(s) couldn't do: he created and expanded ISKCON. So the rtvikists should do the same if they feel that the GBC is deviating. They should step out of ISKCON like gentlemen and start their own movement. If they are really following Srila Prabhupada, then they will certainly do better than us, who are deviating from Srila Prabhupada's teachings. YS, VGD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 1999 Report Share Posted June 24, 1999 Nice text, Vidvan Prabhu. Very much to the point. Ys, Jahnu das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 Since I have seen the terrible mess and confusion that the so called ritvik ideal has caused in Bangalore, India I MUST ADMIT THAT FANATACISM IS FANATICSM in any lanquage. It is ruining Srila Prabhupada's society. So better to not say anything if you don't know. Ys, mkd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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